Beautiful photos (except logging one), thanks for posting.

Amazing!

My guess on the fir would be Shasta Red Fir. Looks a little too green for Noble Fir. Furthermore, Shasta Red Fir may be the intergrade between California Red Fir and Noble Fir.

Are you building a Siskiyou conifer list--or are you looking for any locations of the two cypress?

Nice pics!

"This is not Abies concolor"

Looks like Abies magnifica; in the area, it should be A. magnifica var. shastensis.

"Supposedly there are isolated stands of both Cupressus macnabiana and Cupressus bakeri somewhere in siskiyou county, california, however I have not seen them. If anybody has any information on sites I would appreciate it"

Cupressus bakeri in the Seiad Valley at 41° 54' 36" N 123° 09' 00" W

C. macnabiana mostly further south, e.g. 39° 10' 00" N 122° 32' 18" W

Resin

Nice one of the yew bark.

Awesome! Snowplant looks like Indian Pipes, thought the latter, a Northwoods staple, is whitish. Relative?

Love the P. lambertiana shot in that, by including buildings, car, etc. really shows the scale of these towering giants. Also in that shot, what are the rather dense green towers frame left?

+oM

what are the rather dense green towers frame left?

Abies Concolor and perhaps a little bit of calocedrus decurrens.

I've been going up to this area for a few years now and it only seems to become more amazing to me how much these species seem to thrive here. Hot days, cold nights (85F+ during the day and down to 40F at night in the summer). No summer rain. Fresh volcanic earth with a p.h. of 5.5. Spring starts in late April/May here, much like the midwest, yet all the conifers are 100+ feet tall and enormous at the base. Mycorrhizal mushrooms (mostly boletes or resembling boletes in lacking gills and having pores) sprouting everywhere when the conditions are right.

Mostly, it seems to be the low p.h. and volcanic (read: very rich/non-organic) soil that seems to do the trick.

Very impressive photos and information.

Thanks!!!

Dax

Thnx for the follow-up info, LD. It has always puzzled me a bit as to why conifers do so well in the PNW (I'm including N. Cali here) with the surprisingly warm summers and lack of rainfall during the growing season. And yes, soils of volcanic origin have long been known to tend towards fertility, but at a pH of 5.5, that almost strikes me as being too acidic. At any rate, "you can't argue with success" holds true here.

Great thread!

+oM

my understanding is that conifers do so well in this area because they are more generally drought tolerant (because of the tougher nature of their leaves which reduce evapo-transpiration) than deciduous broadleaves (which in the PNW are generally restricted to mesic (moist) areas) and because of their generally evergreen nature, the conifers are better able to start photosynthsis and growth earlier (in the moist part of spring) than decidious trees which gives them a competative advantage.

I was expecting to see photos of P. breweriana.

Didn't find any ?

PS. No way to be sure, but I may well have the only two in the province of Quebec.
Certainly none to be found in the Montreal Botanical Gardens....

In the Siskiyou-Klamath area you are getting into the realm of the Mixed Evergreen Forest where broad-leaved evergreen trees and shrubs compete successfully with the conifers because of the more Mediterranean conditions than farther north here in the PNW.

While some wildflower guides etc. cover both areas as one they are definitely floristically distinct. Hitchcock/Cronquist, FLORA OF THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST remains the standard reference, considers the PNW to end part way down Oregon, north of the Siskiyou-Klamath region.

On the outer coast the Sitka spruce belt turns into the coast redwood strip at this same latitude. From Brookings you can drive up the river past the northernmost redwood groves up to the edge of the Kalmiopsis Wilderness.

No argument Bboy. I was well aware that the PNW region is not typically inclusive of N. Cali.

Also, Georgeinbandon.....I can't totally agree that greater drought tolerance explains the proliferation and size of coniferous vegetation in that (Those) area(s). After all, if one takes the broadest possible view, conifers develop to their ultimate size in regions of high precipitation, and also, for a good many genera, coolness seems to aid in their wellbeing. Said coolness, of course, results in, among other things, more available moisture, all else being equal.

Just something to ponder.

+oM

>I can't totally agree that greater drought tolerance explains the proliferation and size of coniferous vegetation in that (Those) area(s)That's why I mentioned the Mixed Evergreen Forest and the increase in broad-leaved evergreens when you get to that area, going south.

Optimum development of each species, including conifers occurs in certain parts of their ranges, with wide-ranging species present in sometimes extensive sections of marginal (for them) habitat. Douglas fir, for instance enjoys its most favorable conditions near Coos Bay (when it is not logged!) but is seen over much of the West.

The Siskiyou-Klamath is the Southern Appalachians of the West, with concentrations of species due in part to it being a glacial refuge and also having diverse soils.

wisconson tom, i didnt "say" or intend to imply that drought tolerance among certain conifers is the SOLE or ONLY reason (since it varies among species) only that as a GROUP in that area they tend to have more drought tolerant types (pines, incense cedars, cupressus, junipers) and their evergreen leaves are more GENERALLY drought tolerant in regards to reduced evapo transpiration PLUS enhanced ability to initiate photosynthesis and growth earlier. there are always many other environmental/climatic/genectic factors affecting the growth and distribution of species over time and space---in this case i would propose that drought tolerance is a very important factor but certainly not the only one. the mediterranean type evergreen broadleafs would seem to share some of the same advantages vis deciduous types (arbutus mensiezii and quercus chrysolepis) while others (lithocarpus and chrysolepis) tend to be shrubby in really hot dry habitats and reach their optimum in growth and population density in more mesic habitats similar to deciduous alders maples, and willows .

Well, there's online discussions for ya. Without the ability to hear a persons' voice or see their face, what is only intended as a discussion can seem to take on aspects of an argument. At any rate, thanks B and George for further clarifications on this, for me any way, very interesting aspect of conifer growth and distribution.

Then you've got the larch-deciduous and cone-bearing. Not drought tolerant and certainly leading the pack in terms of getting up and growing in the Spring.

+oM

WisconsinTom, of course you are correct that written comments rarely convey important subtibilities of tone or content and are easily misunderstood leading to all sorts of potential unpleasantness. i believe the key thing to consider in this "discussion" is that on a broad scale the far western u.s. has different conditions (among other things a generally significantly drier summer season)than the eastern u.s. and one "obvious" result of this is that evergreen conifers TEND to dominate many if not most forested areas in terms of both species diversity and individual plants in the western u.s. (of which the siskiyou area is a good example) as oppossed to "back east" where there TENDS to be a much larger broadleaf deciduous hardwood population (both species and individuals) even in areas with significant conifer populations. there are many "exceptions to the rule" of course. as for larix spp. you make a reasonable point but as they say "the exceptions proove(?) the rule" and larch in the pacific northwest at least is relatively limited in distribution (for example "larch mountain" in western oregon is actually covered with noble fir---abies procura and no larix grows there at all) and my understanding FWIW is that the species is not native to the siskiyou/klamath area. best wishes.

Conifers, both native and introduced, seem much happier in my area during seasons of normal to above normal precip, as is also true of all other trees. I guess what I'm driving at here is that my direct though subjective experience has not shown conifers HERE to be well suited to drought conditions. Now, within this factoid, there is variation, with the native pines of the Great Lakes region seeming less adversely affected by drought than say, spruce, hemlock, larch.

BTW, it makes sense that the foliage structure of many conifers, ie. needles, would have the ability to transpire less water than say, a big, broad maple leaf. But conversely, the maple can shed this structure if conditions become unsuitable, aside from the normal fall leaf drop, whereas conifers, at least those that are "evergreen" must retain these structures longer into an adverse period, at which point, it seems they would be "sinks" of nutrients/water rather than "sources". IOW, when conditions become too dry for favorable growth, these structures would still require "maintenance", whereas the broadleaf tree could excise them.

Just thinking out loud, and it's real late;^)

+oM

What is the southern end of the range of Larix lyallii ? (Thnx)

Hi Jaro,

Click the link!

Resin

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:699225}}

Great post until you made it political. Yeah Bush stole the election in 2008! Gotta love liberals, lol. Were you smoking some Mary Jane that trip, perhaps, too?

Native larches here, as can be seen from the above map avoid the rainier Pacific slope. Western larch stands can be seen in some pretty dry areas.

flattie,

I think you meant 2004 not 2008. Still, I could do without the political commentary from both sides. It is really childish.

lawndestroyer,

Would you mind keeping the political commentary out of your posts??? I am being sincere here. There are thousands of websites for that.

Thank you,

midTN

Lawndestroyer keep political commentary out of his posts???
Hahaha....! That'll be a cold day in Climate Change Hell before that happens....

Beautiful pictures, stiffy!
Even this troglodyte can appreciate that ;)

Josh