I think your pine is not just the species Pinus densiflora, it looks like the cultivar 'Umbraculifera' to me.
The very nice of this conifer is it very beautiful bark which you can enjoy if you want to see this as something special...
Please can you show us a detail pic of it's underpart so the bark is clearly visible?
I also would like to see a pic of it's needles and buds.
Thanks in advance!

Yes, I think it is Umbraculifera. The needles are about 2 inches long and the candles are long and slender. The bark isn't that spectacular imo, and the tree hasn't been shaped well over the years. I don't mind the upper limbs showing above other foliage but I'd like to camoflauge the fence behind it.

The structure of that pine is magnificent! A gloved hand and a little rubbing will really make that red bark rock. I would get rid of all those clumps of perennials and add some boulders along with 15-20 complementary conifers and maples. It's a really great space.

~Dave

Yep, Dave is right, get rid of the perennials and use the big pine as a focal point.
After planting the new conifers and maples, you can cover the soil with mulch and decorate all this with some nice bigger stones.
Good luck and enjoy!

The bed to the left is my only full sun bed, so I'm reluctant to add more shade trees. As the center shade tree has grown, I've had to move many of my flowering plants and a blueberry into that bed. I also have two birches in the other back corner and a baby Japanese maple in a large bed against the house. Our house has a high peaked roof, which shades it even more.

Here's a photo of the garden last summer, though I moved a lot of plants last fall. In general I'm lacking shrubs and taller plants and fighting the dry shade along the fence. I'd also like to get rid of the grass but have never been able to think of an appealing shape to lay pavers/fieldstone in my wide narrow yard.

I have a golden fuchsia on the corner of the deck. I didn't cut it to the ground last spring and it got huge. Should I move it in front of the pine? The red Japanese maple is just to the left of it and is only 30" tall, but it will be the focal point of that bed in about 5-10 years. ;)

Plant low broad-leaved evergreen shrubs in varying shades of green around it.

are you in some cherry picker.. taking these pix from 40 feet ...

perhaps if you could favor us with a pic from the 10 o'clock seat .. for a lower down view.. we could help you a bit more ...

as you can read ... many of us long for overly mature conifers.. not simply looking at the green up top ... but focusing on the potential of the bark show.. that we rarely see for the years it takes to develop ...

lets see the space from ground level .... and you you might think about some highly decorative large pots... elevating some interest.. but allowing the bark to shine thru ...

ken

LOL, Ken, I did say our house was tall!

Does this photo tell you enough or would you like one from 10 o'clock? This isn't a part of the garden I've been proud to take photos of, but I'll look through past years or take a new one. Is it the trunk you want to see in detail? We need to go back and even off a few stubs.

Hey May, why are you only doing Ken a favor to show him a pic he asked for?
If I'm not wrong I asked also for one first of the under part of your 'Umbraculifera' so I can show you the beauty of your garden giant :0)
A pic from a 6 feet distance would be nice...

Sorry, coniferjoy. I thought you just wanted to ID it so I said it was the umbrella type.

I spent some time today rubbing off the green from the trunk. I never even noticed the trunk before! Are those white patches normal?

A little closer.

Yes, May, now you can see what I'm trying to say to you all the time...
As this plant ages, the brown bark will turn into red and this in combination with the white patches will give it a very special look.
It seems to me that you've a hidden treasure in your garden and it will be getting nicer by the year, wow!

I don't think I can keep up with rubbing off the green here in the PNW. I thought I might pressure wash it. ;)

I hope that the pruning I did will allow enough light to penetrate to the center. I can't reach the dead twigs and needles at the top. You can also see where the right side had some die-back where our zelkova tree shades it from morning sun. With more sun, can it regenerate any of those side branches?

I expect the Japanese Umbrella Pine will not improve much in appearance with that big Zelkova starving it for sunlight.If they were mine ,I know which one would go,but
perhaps some thinning of the broadleaf might help for a few years.
Its interesting to note that glaciersend conifers look so incredibly happy because they are receiving massages
from time to time.Is that Niwaki therapy Dave?Doug

The zelkova needs thinning anyway. I've got hardly any sun left in my backyard, and I've had such difficulty finding plants for the dry shade along the back fence. I thought we'd be able to do it ourselves this spring, but it's apparent we'll need a tree service to come out.

i take that wink to mean you will NOT powerwash it??.. if you do.. expect one of us to show up and witchslap you .. and then run away giggling.. lol ...

and please do tell.. you understand the difference between pruning a tree.. and topping it.. or we will have to come back and slap you a second time ...???

and i dont know why your denigrating your garden.. last summer pic is sublime.. good work ... we understand an early spring pic is not...

cant find a good search term for decorative pots under a pine.. to add some splash.. while leaving the trunks to shine thru ... think mini or dwarf conifers in pots.. in the PNW ... to fill in the vertical.. to the sides of the trunks .... seems like botan or glacier.. would know what i mean ...

ken

Assuming you can grow most shade plants in that area since you can grow Japanese maples in your yard close by, under that assumption I would do something like this to draw your eye out to that corner.

First, as commented earlier, I would come out to just in front of the spike leafed perrenial clump and put a nice sized boulder, buried half in the ground.

Then halfway between it and the pine, and offset a little to the left, I'd place a nice sized japanese maple...either Crimson Queen or Orangeola. Both are work horses, fairly tough, and will add a nice maroon to dark orange color in front of the pine. They both make nice sized mounds of cascading leaves and will fill the space below your pine nicely. Most all the big box stores are selling Crimson Queen now in pretty nice sizes, pretty cheap.

Then on the right side between the boulder and the pine I'd place maybe a Coppertina Ninebark, or a Purple Smoke tree / bush. Both hold a nice size and add good blending colors and contrasting textures to the maples.

Next to the boulder, on the right side I'd put something like a Scarlet Storm Quince and on the left maybe one of the dwarf mugo pines like Pumillo. Both will swell in size up against the boulder to give it a natural look. The Scarlet Storm will pull maroons from the maple while the Mugo will tie the big Umbraculifera down to the ground.

Finally, in front of the boulder I'd put in one or two Motherlode Junipers for some real color pop at ground level. They'll crawl across the ground and cover a lot of your ground space that's left.

Fill in any other space with a little green texture filler material and you're good to go.

Just some of my thoughts when I saw the space.

Mark

Ken...just joking about pressure washing it, but I really would like to see it with all the green off. I know not to top a tree. We selectively took out some inner limbs and an outer one on the left, so now I have more room in that left bed. I have tried putting pots in the garden and haven't mastered the look. I think I need a class in Pots and Rocks 101.

Texjagman, thank you for your suggestions of plants. I'll need to look up some of those and I'll draw out your ideas on paper. So I'm seeing a Japanese garden/PNW look for this corner now. Will need to visit the Portland Japanese Garden this spring for inspiration.

I do know what the Orangeola maple is. That's intriguing to bring some orange foliage in, along with the purple smoke bush or ninebark. I had thought about a laceleaf maple when Japanese maples were mentioned earlier. That clump of spiky leaves is an orange crocosmia, and there's also an orange daylily with a dark plum throat there. Also the Dolce Licorice heucheras. So it seems I already have the transition perennials.

So this opens up new possibilities. Woohoo! Thanks, everyone!

Texjagman, I'm not sure about the boulder placement. Which spiky perennial clump do you mean? I've got spiky foliage everywhere!

In your third picture, My eye is drawing a line from the top of the arch of green lawn, and the Umbraculifera. That distance appears to be about 8'. Then pretty close to being on that same line there appears to be a brown little plant about 2-3' in and then what appears to be the largest of the flowering plants just a few feet in front of the tree.

I was envisioning placing the boulder on that imaginary line, right in between the brown little plant and the largest plant.

mark

That's what I thought you meant. I'm not sure I have room for all three of the larger plants and a boulder, but I'm going to look for the Orangeola and I know I can find a ninebark. There's also one called Coppertina that I could use in place of the Orangeola. It's funny that I never thought of a laceleaf JM while I've racked my brains trying to come up with a shrub that could cover the fence.

To the forward right of the the pine I would need something that can handle mostly shade, then in August, it gets full afternoon sun. I think quince needs full sun. Maybe another JM would be good.

Coppertina is the one I reccomended to coordinate next to the Orangeola. Those two will get to be about the same size. The nice thing about them being close is Coppertina flushes new leaves in that copper rust color and then turns more green later in the summer whereas Orangeola starts out green and then turns that burnt orange and rust going into the fall. So they kinda switch places so to speak.

I grow Quince, both red and orange varietals, in all lighting except full shade all the time.

Mark

Oh, you did say Coppertina! I like both the Coppertina and the Orangeola and was thinking too much orange, but now they sound perfect because of their color change patterns. Thank you, Mark!

I do see a lot of quince here and love the shape of their branches and the early spring flowers. We had a huge shrub in our backyard when I was a kid in upstate NY.

There is also a very pretty rhododendron here that blooms orange. In the shade they get a nice open structure, so that may be a choice where I have the golden plants, which can be moved.

I'd keep the quince trimmed back a little so as to create kind of a stairstep down from back to front, but otherwise it sounds like a plan. I like the rhododendron being nearby. They create such a color impact in the spring but have good texture and loose form during the rest of the season.

Good luck to you.

Mark

Not sure of the humidity in your area but ninebark sturggles tremendously with Powdery Mildew in dry soil conditons with high humidity. In your first point you mentioned your soil is dry so something to consider.

Hopefully I didn't miss this but if you intend on keeping that shade tree to the right if will continue to thin out your pine and in that case I'd remove it for something more adaptable to shade. If you stick with pine (decause of the dry conitions) look into Pinus cembra for your area. They are one of the most shade tolerant Pines.

Thanks for the heads-up. I checked on the Great Plants Picks website, which is a recommendation guide for the Northwest, and ninebark is listed.

Most people think it always rains in the PNW, but we have beautiful dry summers with very low humidity. My phlox gets dry sometimes and it hasn't gotten powdery mildew, but fungi in general like it here.

My Ninebark is deer candy. I'm looking for a different location for it. I don't think you have a deer problem like I do though.

I guess I will be the nonconformist here and I'll withstand all the darts thrown my way.

Yes, I know it's rare and a very desirable pine to many. This over grown out of balance limbed up pine is truly out of place and should be replace with something more fitting for this area. In plain English it is just not attractive and presents an out of balance road block to any design.

I would yank this thing and put a narrow upright pendulous conifer in that corner and then build around it with dwarf conifers and deciduous companion plants.

You have a nice design and your talent abounds. I can see why you are confounded as to what to do. This is a tough one and no matter what you do it will possibly never come off as rewarding. Eliminate the road block and begin again and don't look back.

Dave

Good job Dave! I've been following this thread since it started and think may_flowers was perhaps looking for 'permission' to remove this pine in the beginning, but then had a bunch of coneheads (said lovingly) talk her into saving it.

Information and knowledge are good, however as you get advice from others remember that the final decision is for you to make. We all have a personal vision for our gardens...and while that changes and expands as years go by we need to stay true to ourselves to be happy with the outcome.

Have fun!

Barbara

Large conifers belong in large landscapes. Your Pine seems out of scale, or at least the plants around it are too small. I like the idea of medium growing Rhododendrons and Pieris japonicas to hide the fence a bit. You need more of a gradual transition from the Pine and fence to the lawn.
Here's my large landscape with large conifers.
Mike

I appreciate the other opinions. I have to say to Barbara that I have struggled with a vision for this corner. With Mark's suggestions that made me realize Japanese/PNW garden, I feel like a vision is forming. I do think I need a conifer there, but which one?

What scares me is the tree down the street is at least twice the size of mine and is fewer than 10 years older than mine. I think it's as tall as I'd want a conifer to be in my garden. It could be that my pine is rare elsewhere, but when these houses were built, the landscapers put in the cheapest filler plants possible, so I was surprised to hear that people felt so strongly about keeping it. But I do appreciate it more and am sorry to hear that it might look too ugly to keep.

I would really love to start with the Orangeola Japanese maple that Mark suggested, then add some shrubs and hardscape that is sorely lacking. I had never really thought of pines as part of a Japanese/PNW garden, and now I would like to bring that feel into my garden. A few years ago we bought a Japanese maple as the focal point for the bed to the left of the pine, but it died when we were on vacation for 10 days and thought it had enough water. I never really got back to that bed except to move plants there that needed more sun.

So I would like to put the JM in the front of that bed somewhere along the curve and either leave the pine or replace with another conifer. Which deciduous and evergreen shrubs do you all grow with your conifers, especially in the shade?

may_flowers - did you ever figure your backyard out? Any update on how you the project turned out?

We took the pine out April 2014 and had the tree trimmed, but that corner still gets full shade until 2 pm. This May I planted a one gallon Center Glow Ninebark in its place. I'm not sure if it will like the sun/shade conditions. It needs several hours of sun to keep its red color, but the sun hits it about 2 pm. The new growth was coming in orange but now it's bright green, while the old red leaves have burned. We had temps in the mid to high 90s for two weeks straight, where we usually only get 1-3 days of 90s. I am itching to move it to full sun this fall, but then I will once again be stuck with what to put in that corner. We'll have the tree trimmed again next year to open it up and let sun into the garden.

I also bought a variegated mock orange soon after this thread was posted, and I have that in front of the trellis that you can see in the first photo. That's burning a little too, but the new growth seems to not burn. Go figure. I love that shrub though.

Here's my ninebark before it started burning.

You can barely see the ninebark in front of the compost pile. The mock orange is poking up on the left.