Conifer names, corrections, Abies

11 years ago

I have a bunch of small grafts of conifers coming in this Spring from various sources. Edwin/Clement/Henk/Dax/etc. can you help with name spelling errors? Some seem widespread according to what I've searched in Google.

Abies alba 'Argauu' - 'Argan'(RHS)?
'Hockstuckii' - 'Hockstuckii'? 'Hockstuckli'?
'Ibergeregg' - 'Jbergeregg'? (I think the first is correct)
'Fin Holden' - 'Holden Arboretum WB'?
'Pancake'?
'Verkade'?

Abies fraseri
'Vashtii'?
'Zevechovli'?

Abies homolepis 'Havel'? Abies alba?? One for each?
'Variegated' 'Varigata'(or found after 1959...)?

Abies koreana 'Blue Star'
'Freundenberg'
'Nigrans'
'Rodzyn Gold'
'Winter Goldtip'
Abies koreana subspec. sikokiana

Abies nordmanniana 'Durham Dwarf'?

Abies numidica 'Anthoine'

Abies procera 'Blue Spire' 'Blue Spiral'?

Thanks a ton fellas for any help in advance.

-Will

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Comments (10)

monkeytreeboy15
11 years ago
I can lend my help for one cultivar anyway:
Abies numidica 'Anthoine' is actually a cultivar of Abies cephalonica.. It certainly looks more like cephalonica in my opinion. Clement Anthoine is the originator of this plant.
See the link for the full story.

-Sam

Here is a link that might be useful: Abies cephalonica 'Anthoine'
severnside
11 years ago
I've seen Abies koreana 'Wintergold Tip' & 'Winter Gold Tip' written so can't really untangle that one. But I did stupidly pass one up a couple of years ago. I'll look forward to seeing yours as I can't really remember, very dark and the tips looked like points of light? Should be a striking plant.

This post was edited by severnside on Sun, Jan 27, 13 at 18:01
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On one hand I find it very good, that Edwin knows what plants were renamed at his german friend by the times. Thats very good to make problems clear. On the other hand I also think, if we had breeders or authors, who are able to give names in situ, without later change, our work should have been much more easier in following conifer history. By this way I like sometimes Edwin for these infos. I m fighting since 30 years with authors, who name their plants HB 1, WB 2, WB # 145, HB 28 and so on. Even the bests are able to kill their plants with unuseful names. The most tragic story is the Horstmann's. Everything is full with HB names, sometimes HB 5 or 8. By this way without loveable and unsoldable names the Horstmann Heritage is lost for the conifer history. Half of the Jerry Morris Heritage is also lost by numbers. The czech breeders are able to give names in the forest in situ. Why are others not able this? Chub Harper, Joe Stupka was also able to give names in situ, and their hertiage will be not lost. Zsolt conifertreasury.org
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Will, your 3th 'Piccolo' is the true form, the other 2 are not. It looks to me that your first 'Piccolo' and second false 'Piccolo' are the Abies fraseri 'Fastigiata Compacta'. Your Abies fraseri 'Fastigiata Compacta' doesn't show a fastigiate growth at all so I presume that it isn't this cultivar but one of the many witches' brooms found of this species. The Abies nordmanniana 'Trautmann' doesn't seem to be an Abies nordmanniana at all. I hope Clement or Resin can help you out with the cone you're showing us... The Abies nordmanniana 'Pendula' isn't right, it looks like a cross between Abies grandis and Abies nordmanniana weeping form, maybe it's a true Abies grandis weeping form. Will, why don't you stake this one, maybe then it's more clear to see to which species it belongs... Your Picea mariana 'Fastigiata' is a columnar form of Picea abies, it's the 'Cupressina' or the 'Columnaris'. I hope I helped you a bit with my info. It's a big pitty that the seller sold you conifers under the wrong name, I can't understand why they are doing this. Maybe you can trace back some stocklists of these sellers so you can find out which other one's are possible?
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The saga actually continues. One of my colleagues researched the rules of nomenclature and found a very interesting rule that I want you guys to be aware of and offer opinion. Seems that 5th International Symposium on the Taxonomy of Cultivated Plants was held at Wageningen, The Netherlands in 2007. After that meeting, the ICNCP (International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants), 8th Edition, 2009, was published by the ISHS (International Society for Horticultural Science), Chairman Christopher Brickell. This is the document that contains the rules for naming cultivars. This is a quote from that document that pertains to cultivar names and when and if they can be changed: "The original registered cultivar name should stand. An originator, the person who submits a cultivar name to be registered, does not have a right to change the name after it is accepted. I suppose you can plead a case with the registrar for Ã¢ÂÂcorrectingÃ¢ÂÂ a name after acceptance, but the authority to make changes to an accepted cultivar name does not belong to the originator." We were discussing the correct name for Abies koreana 'Kohouts Icebreaker.' By the way, this is the way the originator, JÃÂ¶rg Kohout wants it. We even have a message from him that says so. However because it was originally registered with the Royal Horticultural Society, Wesley, England as Abies koreana 'Ice Breaker,' that is the name it must hold through all of eternity despite the wishes of the originator. rant on . . . Thoughts? Personally I think this is a special flavor of bureaucratic obstuctionism. The next time one of these symposia is held, I hope somebody with common sense is in attendance. rant off . . . ~Dave
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severnside
11 years ago
Abies nordmanniana 'Durham Dwarf' sounds very interesting.
firefightergardener
Original Author
11 years ago
Bump, Clement? Edwin? I need an expert fellas.

-Will
clement_2006
11 years ago
Abies alba 'Argauu' - 'Argan'(RHS)? = Argau

'Ibergeregg' - 'Jbergeregg'? (I think the first is correct) Yes the first is correct

Abies homolepis 'Havel'? Abies alba?? One for each? Yes
Abies alba "Havel" and Abies homolepis "Havel" and Abies homolepis "Variegated"

Abies koreana subspec. sikokiana or var. sikokiana.

Abies numidica 'Anthoine' = Abies cephalonica "Anthoine"

Abies nordmanniana 'Durham Dwarf'? probably correct.

For other ?? I don't know.
Clement
coniferjoy
11 years ago
Howdy Will, why didn't you check my website assortment list first?
It could have save you some quiestions about right written conifer names...

Abies 'Pancake'= Abies koreana 'Pancake'.

Abies 'Verkade'= Abies balsamea 'Verkade's Prostrate' which is mixed up with a flat growing Abies nordmanniana cultivar.

Abies 'Vashtii'= Abies fraseri 'Vasti'

Abies koreana 'Blue Star', never saw this plant.
Probably 'Alpine Star'...

Abies koreana 'Freundenberg'
= Abies koreocarpa (x) 'Freudenberg'
Often mislabeld as a true Abies koreana cultivar...

Abies koreana 'Nigrans' = correct.

Abies koreana 'Rodzyn Gold' = correct.

Abies koreana 'Winter Goldtip' = correct.

Abies nordmanniana 'Durham Dwarf' = correct.

Abies procera 'Blue Spiral' = correct.

The only one's I can't help you with are:
-Abies fraseri 'Zevechovli'
-Abies koreana 'Fin Holden'
May be I can do this later om when you show us some pics of these...

I hope I helped you with this info...
severnside
11 years ago
I hope it's ok to ask an ID question in this thread.

Edwin, I bought this recently for a cheap price (unlabeled) at a farmers store! It looks like it could be Abies nordmanniana 'Barabit's Compact' would you agree?
{{gwi:634762}}
coniferjoy
11 years ago
Severn, it's the right plant with almost the right name.
It must be written as 'Barabits Compact'.
firefightergardener
Original Author
10 years ago
I need your help again Edwin...

Abies balsamea 'Verkade's Prostrate'? Sure looks like nordmanniana or even maybe koreana to me??
{{gwi:634764}}

Thanks in advance. I have more to ask questions about, I'll get to them. :)

-Will
coniferjoy
10 years ago
Will, that's an Abies nordmanniana 'Verkade's Prostrate'.
It's too bad that the finder of this conifer didn't have a proper knowledge about the differences between the Abies species...

It's big brown dull buds says that this one is an Abies nordmanniana, Abies koreana buds are smaller and shiney.

Conifer names, corrections, Abies

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monkeytreeboy15

severnside

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