Here's one for starters (no I don't spend the whole day at the computer as it appears...been on the porch roof bleaching and blasting mildew...this is my break).

John said in the "Poppies in the Piedmont" thread that he sows them just about this time, January at the latest. I think I'm going to pursue this elusive darling (poppies, not John, not that he's not a darling!), if I can find the seed. Where can you find seed at retail?

peace, claire of the freezing fingers in sanford

marsha - I am taking my first stab at winter sowing. I have been reading and studying over 'there' - noting zones people are posting from and all. I have very little luck with direct sow - minor luck with starting indoors. I have started some perennials in June and July had set them out in the fall with some success. I am not into all the 'containers and plastic' that seems to pervade the w/s forum but do plan to start my seeds in flats and deeper 6 packs that I have saved and use the clear large under the bed storage containers as mini greenhouses. I plan to start in the beginning of January with early spring annuals, then perennials and later season annuals by the time I get to February and let nature take its course. I really want to try and take advantage of the four season gardening here and stay away from feeling I NEED to have a greenhouse and from buying so many plants from the garden centers that have been fed HIGH levels of chemiclas to get them to bloom at just the right time to snag me. I will be interested in seeing what everyone else has to say.

Claire .......re: the poppy seed - try this site - valueseeds.com and then go to pages 8 and 9 - poppy seeds are listed there. From what I understand this site is run by Morgan/Thompson seed company and are their leftovers. Price is right and quanties per pack decent. I place a rather large order (quantity wise) with them to experiment with the w/s method.

I have had the best luck sowing seeds outside in pots starting in mid-March into August.

This is my second WS year, and I recently re-read all of the FAQ's at the WS Forum - much of it now makes sense. It contains all the info on what to sow when, and I think there is a post on specific zones and seeds and sow times?Anything not tropical can be winter-sown, but people generally do perenials before annuals and so on. Anyway, I had great luck last year, and I can't wait to start this year. Ornamental grasses especially wonderful - you never have to divide the clump-o-seedlings into separate pots - just transplant into garden to get big clump of grass. I tried same seeds indoors and WS last year - WS best results by far, but I don't have fancy indoor light set-up. Last year I used milk cartons, but this year I thought my "WS pot ghetto" would look nicer all in 2L soda bottles. I've heard you can cut them so that the 2 halves slide back together without duct tape - where exactly do you cut them? Hey, Shannon, you're the expert, where are you?

Poppies can go outdoors now. Just sprinkle in a prepped bed and forget.

I tried winter sowing last for the first time this past Feb. and up until April. It worked very well for me. I was surprised at the success and how hardy the plants turned out. Just keep in mind the germination requirements for the seeds you're sowing. Those that need temp.s in the 60-70's will not germinate until the nights get quite warm.
Lynn those under the bed containers should work fine. Just make sure there's adequate drainage and holes in the top for the moisture to get in.
It's exciting when you start seeing sprouts!

Brenda - I cut mine around the 5" mark up from the bottom - and then make some slices about an 1" or so in either part so that they slip over each other better. For years I have used 2 liter bottles for mini greenhouses to start root cuttings of shrubs and perennials - works GREAT. I just arbitrarily choose that number because most of my stem cuttings are 5-6" and that just seems to work out.

I start my stuff indoors in mini-greenhouses with lights. I have pretty good success with it. You have to watch and tend them but I love doing it.

I've had a lot of luck with impatiens, angel trumpets, geraniums, vinca, foxglove, nasturums, zinnias (don't start these too early, they will take over the greenhouse, LOL)petunias, polka dot plant.

I'm going to try some new stuff this year.

Cindy

Have had luck indoors and winter sowing but the later is so much easier. I plan to exploit this to the fullest this year. Like I have anywhere to put the stuff when it's ready to go in the ground. Theresa.

I have tried poppies several times with only one success. And I turned that into a failure!! I didn't recognize the seedlings in spring and pulled them all up.

I am trying again.... one more time.

I purchased poppies seeds of various varieties earlier in the year and all the garden web posts say that now is the time to plant so here goes.

I got a bunch of seeds this year and I am planning to WS half of the seeds in each pack in containers and the other half direct sow in the ground. I expect better success with the WS containers, but more work. I guess I am trying to see if the extra work is worth it. I've been browsing the WS forum too trying to get info. I've never done a lot from seeds because I have no space to set them up indoors so this is a big experiment for me. We'll see how it goes. -Ais.

I tried direct sowing about ten different things last year. Only 1 type of plant came up and that was my everlasting sweet pea. Which I resowed 3 times because I didn't see anything coming up after a month. This was before I had found gw and I didn't know what I was doing. This winter I will try WS.

Thanks
JP

Quick question for you guys. I have lot of milk containers I think I am going to use for WS, but do I need to cover them? I have an old glass door, so I could jimmyrig a cold frame to set them in. Or should I put plastic over them? or just leave them open on the top? (Last night I was dreaming about WS containers. How pathetic is that? ;)) Thanks -Ais.

lol - Ais - your dream is not pathetic at all - I had a dream the night before about trying to walk around the yard because of ALL the w/s containers all over - we had these little paths all over the back yard and for some reason I had lost one of the cats and was searching for him - I feel I too have gone over the edge - been spending way to much time over on the W/S forum - lol

As for the jugs - I get the impression you can just leave them uncovered but I would have plastic or something to put over them on really cold nights. My plan is to use the clear larger storage tubs inverted over the containers as mini greenhouses. - we are nuts aren't we:):)

Plastic on top of open container like cardboard half-gallon cartons will give greenhouse effect, but you need air slits in plastic too. Milk jugs and soda bottles already have open hole at top. My dreams are nightmares, because my pop-slurping teenagers are NOT drinking the 2L bottles fast enough. I will never have enough bottles by solstice at this rate.

"by solstice" ... so 12/21 is the magical ws date?

No magic date. I started in February last year and had success even with perennials. I am going to try to start earlier this year though. Some seeds require a fairly long cold period and if we have a really early spring it could prevent germination for those. You can always put those in the fridge if you are not ready to get in the swing of WS yet.

Oh man, I tried WS last year in San Antonio and had zero luck. Maybe not cold enough?? I had great! luck sowing indoors. Let the seeds germinate under the bed in disposable 13x9 glad containers. Then moved them to a table in DS's closet. DH rigged up two flourescent lights about a foot above the table and my seedlings thrived. I had the lights on a timer. Brenda-- indoor lights don't have to be fancy. I bought a 4 shelf plastic shelving unit (the kind for garage storage) at Walmart for $20 and 3 cool light flourescents. Stu attached the flourescents on the bottoms of the shelves with plastic ties and viola! my new fancy indoor light system ;^)

I use plain flourescant lights also, and its works fine for me, but I am going to try the WS this year and see how it goes. After the plants get some size on them, its really hard to handle indoors.

In my neighborhood the green recycling bins go out on the curb on Tuesday, so there would be no lack of bottles. How about those rotisserie chicken containers and mesclun boxes...they have their own greenhouse roofs.

I hope some of you get more specific about what you are planning to plant and when (which month). A couple of years ago I failed Winter Sowing 101 miserably...lots of seed rot, I think.

peace, claire in sanford

I find that the deli-type containers are too shallow for me to WS. I use those to start seeds indoors. Gallon milk jugs last year and 2L bottles this year. I also direct-sow ornamental grasses outdoors under those disposable clear cake covers you get with grocery store cakes - mini-greenhouse pinned down with a rock - those go out this month. Last year successful with :
Aster - powderpuff
Artemesia
Baby's Breath
Blackberry Lily
Butterfly Weed
Catmint
Coral Bells
Coreopsis
Coneflower
Delphinium
Flax
Foxglove
Fountain Grass
Helenium
Hardy Hibiscus
Helleborus
Hollyhock
Hosta
Iris
Joe-Pye Weed
Lily-of-the-Nile
Lily fomosanum
Poppy
Rudbeckia
Salvia
Toad Lily

This year:
Silene
trichostemon
echinops
Brazilian verbena
more asters
torenia
gerbera
indigo
columbine
cosmos
lagurus - bunny tail grass

If it's perennial, I don't see why it wouldn't winter sow Dec/Jan. If it's annual, I'll start it in Feb/March same way.

If anyone is still looking for poppy seeds, they are cheap on eBay. There's one guy in Burlington who sells them 2 ounces (36,000 seeds - did he count those puppies?) for $7. Folks on the WS site seem to like valueseeds.com.

Here is a link that might be useful: Poppy seeds

Thanks for all the info, Brenda. You seem like quite a vet of WS...helleborus!! (that's not an explicative), I'm impressed!

I know we have some flowerniks here, but who would ever need 36,000 poppy seeds?

Wow, that valueseeds.com is great! Very cheap and with a good variety.

My problem is I can't match up any of the poppy types available with those suggested by John and some of the other posters from an earlier thread. They spoke about breadseed (P. somniferum), corn and California poppies...also Apricotia. Valueseeds gives very common names, but their planting instructions are good.

Seeds of Change has those other poppies, or at least they did in the past. So does Thompson and Morgan.

with my seeding prowess, it'd probably take 36,000 to end up with even a small display.
not kidding.

marsha :)

I think Valueseeds is a subsidiary of Thompson and Morgan. They got me for 43 different packets of seeds - several of them were poppy seeds. At 49 cents a pack (some 99 cents)I figured it was a pretty good deal. This w/s has me fascinated - can't wait to really get into it.

Actually, to get any success with direct sow of anything, I have to throw down thousands of seeds - guess I figure quantity makes up for skill and good soil. I still can't get a sweetpea to grow for love or money.

believe it or not, i've been successful with sweetpeas, the perennial variety. just before we left our house in maryland, i collected seeds from my sweetpeas there. sowing them was my very first gardening act here in carolina. someone told me 20 years ago, when i set out to plant my first sweetpeas, to dig a long, deep trench, backfill with well-draining soil, and plant the seeds. i did. it worked beautifully both times. in carolina, i sowed them in late january/early februrary.

I tried to direct sow cosmos this year 3 different times and finally got 2 plants - tried cleome twice and never got anything - did have a couple volunteers from last year in a different garden - go figure - I have never been very successful with direct sow which is why I want to do this w/s - I have had luck with sowing in flats and pots but tired of having EVERYTHING all over the house in the winter and then have them get leggy because the lighting wasn't right. I would rather start them outside and keep them out there - right now I have over 30 foxglove that need to be planted out or maybe I will just over winter them in containers and plant them out in March.

As far as direct sowing, I think it works better when you just sprinkle the seeds ( Cleome) over the ground. If you have heavy mulch or disturb the soil I doubt you'd have much success. They don't need to be planted very deep.

I dunno, Lynne, foxglove is so hale and hardy. You might try putting a few of them out after hardening them off. I have several, but lost tons to damping off after the plants were fairly large. boohoo This was in the late spring. I'm thinking I need to sterilize my planting equipment, as I'm bad about that and do know better.

babelsrus, cleome self-seeds everywhere in my partial sun garden. But when it comes to challenging plants like some of the perennials, I am a control freak and like to put the seeds in my disease-prone little box. Maybe if I had 36,000 seeds I'd do a lot better!

I'm hoping to learn a lot from this thread and our shared experiences as we all face winter together.

Here is a link that might be useful: How to avoid damping off

lol Clair - don't think I will have to harden these babies off - they were born and raised in my shade-house and went through the 21 degrees we had the other night - they are still in 4-packs but I think I will pot them up into 4" pots and also put some in the ground - try both ways

Just ordered some poppies from Seeds of Change...Hungarian Blue and Cornfield. They have the heirloom types I was looking for. Hopefully they will come up and I'll have seeds to share in the future. Now, there's some positive thinkin'.

Not to poo-poo anyones choices of where to buy seed but I would ONLY buy Thompson and Morgan seed through Valueseed. I love T&M catalogs but my experience with them and germination rates makes me shop elsewhere. I don't know if it is the handling their seed get or the age of their seed but I have very few success stories with T&M seeds.

A lot of the red Corn Poppy seeds ended up in last years Seed Swap box and I still have some. When I return to civilization I will share share share.

My theory on winter sowing is that most of the really tough plants like to be exposed to full sun in order to sprout and survive the winter. Keeping leaves off the flowerbed in the winter is the biggest problem (well, that and not weeding out the juvenile plants which sometimes don't look anything like the adults).

When you grow seedlings indoors one problem I have is keeping the lights close enough to the plants. Flourescent bulbs don't penetrate deeply so you have to keep them just inches above the plants/seedlings. So you need to rig it up so that you can raise the light fixture or lower the seedlings as they grow. And if you grow a mixture of plants you can go crazy trying to keep all the different types happy at various heights.

It is almost easier to relax during winter and hit the seedling binge in like late January and early February so that you are only managing flat after flat of seedlings for a few months before spring instead of all winter long.

I buy cool season early bloomers like Digitallis, Lupines and Delphinium seedlings from Logans (downtown Raleigh) in early March ($1.39 a 4pak, thats 35 cents each!). Plant them in fluffy improved garden soil and they bloom like they've lived there all winter. Far easier than growing from seed myself. You gotta git them early and protect them through any harsh freezes.

John, that's a great tip about Logans. If they have hollyhocks, I'm home free. Also yellow digitalis, which I never have. And what a thrill to have delphiniums. I usually just buy one or two pricey ones that I have to stake and then sayonara.

I hated paying so much for seeds as I did today, so I'm at least glad I got them from S of C, which seems like a Neiman Marcus of the seed world.

Yet, all that said, there is a special joy to having planted the seed. Seeds are very cool.

I've bought seed from Thompson and Morgan and I don't remember having problems with germination. They have a larger selection in their retail catalogue too than at valueseed. The problem is that the amount of seed is pretty small.

i called the durham county extension master gardener office to ask a few questions, and happened to mention the terrible luck i had this season trying to winter-sow seeds for the first time. the master gardener instructed me to get my soil tested (it's free!) and then asked if i had ever added lime. oops. i guess that's something i should have done--i'm not used to dealing with acidic soils (i'm from chicago). i will get the soil tested; then i'll amend it according to their suggestions.

pat
durham, NC

If anyone got plants from me from the spring swap it was wintersown. It would have been in a recycled container with a window blind with black permanent pen marker print. I have never grown anything successful by indoor sowing- no space too & little light or direct sowing never seem to have the right seed for the right season. But I am going to try and direct sow poppies and digitalis. I have an old gardening book that says that any hardy annual or perennial can be direct sown in our zone. Is this right, TJ? I am always trying to remember which seed when. My perenial question is "What do I sow now" Brenda, I can get you all the recycling bottles you need. There is a recycling center off Creedmoor and Strickland where you can get all you need. They pick up on Wenesday morning usually. Let me know and I can get them for you. They might be sticky and smelly but clorox will take care of that. Shannon

Can anyone educate me on "polythene" as I keep seeing that word pup up concerning seed propagation.

Shannon - I believe that is right and it is why I don't do cartwheels over winter sowing. Our winters are considered mild around here and they are perfect for starting most hardy ornamental plants by seed. Just plant them where you want them. What a lot of people do is to plant a bunch of seeds and then yank out the smallest or weakest leaving only the strong. Perennials and shrubs can take a while to reach a noticeable size so you have to be patient, but plenty of them will grow and even bloom the first year from seed. If the instructions for growing any plant from seed say to scarify or stratify you could just let mother nature do all that work for you (winter freezing and thawing has the same effect on the seed coating as scarifying or scratching away the outer layer of the seed coat with a file, or stratifying by placing the seed in damp peat moss and storing it in the refrigerator).

A lot of what gets published for gardening is derived from research for commercial growing of crops. In a commercial greenhouse they want all the seedlings to be uniform in size and form. It helps them sell all the plants if all the plants on the table look identical. So they devised systems to help with uniformity by using greenhouses and mechanically manipulating seeds so they all sprout at the same time. These things don't really matter to a gardener. You can succeed or fail either way. I tend to go with the less-work method of sowing in site.

I like WS because it is a mostly indoor activity for when it's really cold out. I hate working outside in cold wind. If I don't already have a good spot to direct sow once it gets really cold I won't do it. Plus Christmas seems to take all my time in December and I'm ready to do something come Jan besides just catalog dream.

the one bit of info i gleaned from the winter sowing forum, and which i see repeated here - is how easily native grasses are to start in the winter containers. the idea of being able to plant the entire clump really appeals to me. i'm sure i don't have the patience, or small-motor skills, to successfully separate the winter-sown clumps of tiny flower seedlings.

i was briefly encouraged about direct-sowing poppies, until the reality of my lack of full-sun set in.

WS database

Here is a link that might be useful: their database

Cribscreek: Polythene is the British equivalent of polyethelene. Who knows why. Just like lawyer and soliciter, I guess.

Poppies: I have heard but not tested out this information. I was told that poppy seed from health food stores has not been heated, and will germinate. I have a polythene/polyethelene bag of it to try this winter.