Guns, how cold does it get at your end during the month of Dec? Key limes are very cold-sensitive and should be brought indoors before the temps dip under 50.

If your trees were small I'd say plucking the scale then wipe the area w/rubbing alcohol, but since your trees are large ths would be a super job. Impossible..
If it's still cold out, I'd place tall trees in the shower, or if warm outside, I'd line each tree and hose down. Don't aim at the soil, only foliage. After plant dries, inspect leaves and look for scale. Remove w/fingernail, then rub over w/rubbing alcohol..Toni

Key limes grown on their own roots are extremely likely to suffer from root rot. I had planned on using Key lime as rootstock for some of my citrus grafts UNTIL I found out how bad it was. Key limes really need to be grafted to another rootstock in order to thrive in containers unless they are potted in something that is extremely well draining and are growing at a fast rate.

Sometimes the initial problem(scale) is not the main worry. Your tree could also be complaining at the treatment for the scale. Citrus are sometimes very finicky about their surroundings and care.

You might want to unpot and carefully look at the roots. Root rot will also cause massive leaf loss.

Thanks for all of the responses thusfar. It's really cool that you guys are all ready to help me out here.

The Key Limes are grown from seed. There used to be 4 of them. One suddenly died from the same thing, the leaves just fell off from top to bottom and it just dried up and lost all green and died. The key lime plant affected by leaf loss (we'll call that Key Lime #1), even though it has only one original leaf left, the new shoots and it's leaves seem to be surviving although very very light green/yellow. SO it is fighting it seems but is definetly not in good shape at all. I keep the key Lime trees out only from Mid June to End of September, unless temperatures warrent going indoors earlier or out later than that. I know that eseentially, once the temp drops below 50F I could be pretty much screwed. The other key lime tree (Key Lime #2)that is unaffected by scale at this point or leaf loss used to me almost the twin of the one with leaf loss. It remains healthy it seems and growing like it thinks it's a grapefruit tree...lol. The last key lime tree (Key Lime #3)is covered in this damn scale, and amazingly,is also about as strong it seems as Key Lime #2. Growing tall at about 3 1/2 ' tall and branching out. It is actually the largest of the 3 Lime trees as well. I will find out tomorrow if Key Lime #1 is suffernig from root rot. The Local extension of Cornell University Horticultural is going to examine the plant for me and samples of the others and hopefully have some additional answers for me.

The Grapefruits still stand with Grapefruit #1&2 at about a 70% leaf loss and Grapefruit #3 at a 50% leaf loss. #1&2 will have samples submitted as well. I do not think I have root rot on either of these, however I am not expert for sure. It just seems to coincidental that it gets scale and root rot at the same time. Once again, however, I could be wrong.

The Finger Lime, besides the scale is as strong as an ox. The Lemon has a tiny dot of scale and hopefully will have it irraticated by the next treatment I give it. THe Kumquat has no signs of scale whotsoever.

I will let everyone know what the college tells me as soon as I am informed of information.

WOW...WOW...WOW.....
Did I mention ....WOW.....Cornell Cooperative Extension was awsome, I dropped off the samples on Friday about 1:15pm, When I got home today I checked the mail from Saturday and a response was already in the mail from them. So they basically got right down to it and got me a good simple answer to the plant problems, and did it in UNDER 24 HOURS. That is quite impressive. Anyway, here is the bulk of the response sent to me by the college:

Problem/Question: Assorted citrus samples with yellowing foliage and leaf drop submitted for insect/disease/problem identification and control reccommendations if available.

Diagnosis/Reccommendation: The citrus sample did not have evidence of disease. As houseplants, most problems that occur with citrus are related to insect problems or cultural practices. Each on of the samples you submitted had brown soft scale insects present, and several of them had evidence of two spotted spider mites (eggs, dead mites, and sippled foliage injury from feeding). Both of these pests are common on citrus and can be managed using the same insecticide. Insecticidal soap ininsecticidal soap+pyrethrins are labeled for both these pests. Repeat applications are necessary. Follow pesticide label directions. Populations of scale and mites combined may be responsible for the leaf drop. Changes in location such as lighting of temperature, changes in watering and fertilization can also pose problems, and may cause green leaves to be shed from the plant. Use care when repotting to be sure that stems are not planted too deeply and repot only into the next larger pot size as needed. Do not allow soil to remain wet, allow soil to dry between watering.

So I will follow their instructions and all suggestions that I have received on the board here. So thatnk you everyone and hope this posting helps others out when they have a similar issue.

:)

Well I dropped off my samples at the Cornell Extension. They charged me 5 bucks which is pretty good for a plant analysis I think. I also brought the sick Key Lime over (the one with 90% leaf loss). She took it out of the pot, cleared off all the dead roots on the plant.til there was hardly any soil remaining. She then replanted itin the soil. Showed me that the trunk was covered up at the base to much and that could be hurting it. had me wrap it in a clean plastic bag and told me to put it in a shady place with no direct sunlight. And then monitor it.

I should have a further analysis later on this week (I hope :) ). I'll keep you abreat of the situation.

Guns, that's fantastic..I didn't realize Extension agencies were so thorough. At least you now know the problem and it can be corrected easily enough. Toni

Sorry to post slightly off-topic, but is there any way you'll divulge the source of your finger lime (or share a cutting)? I'm striking out finding one...

thanks!

Here is an update. Since my last posting on May 8th I have had some very interesting results. First off the Malithion & Oil mixture seems to have worked as planned. The grapefruit trees are almost entirely clean of live scale. I have only found 1 live scale on either of the trees in the past week. I figure 1 more spraying in the next week or so is in order but they are way on their way to recovery. Now for the interesting part. just before I used the spray I had noticed some shoots on 1 of the grapefruit trees. well, at this point there are about 200 or so shoots on each grapefruit tree approximately. I will find some picture to post later tonight but the amount of growth on all grapefruits is of the likes I've never seen before. It seems for every leaf the grapefruits lost it is growing anywhere from 1 to 3 shoots or more in it's place. and these shoots are from top to bottom on these trees. When I say top to bottom I mean it. There are shoots on all 3 grapefruits that are growing almost 1" above the dirt line of the pot. It seems the scale drilling their holes in the tree and getting killed off had a beneficial effect in that growth is now flourishing on the trees, it is truely amazing. Litterally every day I look at it there are more and more shoots. Some of them gre 1.5-2" in a day just yesterday and seem quite healthy.

The healthy Key lime tree with heavy infestation is clearing nicely as well and has itself down to about a 30% infestation. I figure another spray or 2 for it and it should be clear as well. Much better than being covered like it was. The lemon also cleared up any minor scale it was starting to get. Kumquat also is clear and only found 1 scale on it ever and that one was dead. The key lime that lost almost all leaves is still barely hanging on with a couple of leaves but it is starting to grow a few new shoots. I will have to see how everything works out with it.

To answer another question posed in this message thread. I don't remember the name of the place where I got the fingerlime (also doing great with lots of shoots continueing to grow). I will check my work e-mail on Monday and remind myslef where I got them from (there were 2, one went to a friend but due to an environmental change at his place it died). The environmental change being that they ripped the roof off his brownstone in Manhattan and the blacktop uninsulated on the roof caused his place to go to 120-130 degrees F during the day for about a month, killing most plants in his place. I think he could have saved it but he lost faith. I will be posting another thread tonight on doing cuttings of the fingerlime and how to use rooting hormone, etc and keep the cuttings alive. Beware though. I cannot guarantee a scale free curring on them .

VTY
-GunsaMaster

Here are the pictures that I promised. This will show the current state of the citrus attacked at my apartment. The pictures consist of the 3 grapefruit trees, the Austrailian Fingerlime, the 3 key limes, the Lemon and the Kumquat. I also think there is a picture of my cactus flowering as well :) I should have a web site up in the near future for everyone to enjoy once I get my server back up and running. Hope you enjoy.
{{gwi:588908}}Longshot of grapefruit #1 and #2
{{gwi:588909}}lots on new growth on the trunk of grapefruit #2
{{gwi:588910}}shot of grapefruit #2 on a bunch o fthe new growth
{{gwi:588911}}dense new growth forming on grapefruit #2
{{gwi:588914}}Top of grapefruit #2
{{gwi:588916}}picture showing why Grapefruit #1 & 2 are together, also shows some of the trunk growth at the bottom as well.
{{gwi:588918}}Some of grapefruit #2's growth
{{gwi:588920}}Top of grapefruit #1 showig the leaf loss at the tolp and the new growth replaceing it.
{{gwi:588922}}New growth on 1 part of grapefruit #1
{{gwi:588924}}Shot of top of the aussie fingerlime
{{gwi:588925}}shot of dense growth on the right of the fingerlime
{{gwi:588926}}Long shot of the Aussie fingerlime about 3' tall
{{gwi:588927}}closeup on aussie fingerlime with grapefruit #2 on the background
{{gwi:588928}}New growth with the now wider leaves on the fingerlime
{{gwi:588930}}Center shot of the Aussie Fingerlime in the pot
{{gwi:588932}}Shot of all the growth on Aussie Fingerlime on the left side
{{gwi:588933}}New growth all over the mid trunk on grapefruit #3
{{gwi:588935}}Some new growth, part of many on Grapefruit #3
{{gwi:588937}}Top view of Grapefruit #3
{{gwi:588939}}Grapefruit #3 next to my wifes Patio Tomato plant
{{gwi:588941}}Remaining scale, mostly dead in Grapefruit #3
{{gwi:588943}}Some New growth on grapefruit #3 and my Nova & Caprice and my wife's Taurus :)
{{gwi:588945}}Top of Grapefruit #3 where leaves were lost but starting to get new growth
{{gwi:588948}}Full shot of all the plants in my kids room including Key Lime #1, Kumquats #1 & 2, the Lemon & pepper plants, 6 cactus and 1 African Violet
{{gwi:588949}}Key Lime #1 and some of the scale flaking off the trunk
{{gwi:588950}}Pictures of the remaining scale on Key Lime #1
{{gwi:588951}}Key Lime #1 by the window
{{gwi:588953}}Picture of the Lemon tree by the window with the pepper plant to the side.
{{gwi:588954}}Picture of some of the scale that dropped off after the Malithion spray
{{gwi:588955}}Flower on my catus :)
{{gwi:588956}}My 2 Kumquat seedlings growing slowly but surely.
{{gwi:588959}}Pretty full shot of the Lemon and it's longtime friend the Thai pepper plant that grew beside it in the same pot since about day 1
{{gwi:588962}}Key Limes #2 & 3 full shots
{{gwi:588964}}Key Lime #2 growth at the top of the plant. Nice and healthy.
{{gwi:588966}}Key Lime #2 side shot
{{gwi:588968}}Full shot of Key Lime #3, not in very good shape as you can see.
{{gwi:588971}}Key Lime #3's main growth at this point
{{gwi:588973}}Key Lime's #2 & 3 comparision Poor Key Lime #3
{{gwi:588975}}Key Lime #2 clean trunk and rich growth
{{gwi:588977}}Shoots on the base of Grapefruit #3's trunk
{{gwi:588979}}

Guns, nice plants..btw, remember to remove any growth under graft line. I noticed some while viewing your pic..The root stock will take over so please remove it..Toni

Hey Toni, thanks for your complements on my plants. Beleive it or not, all of my plants with the exception of the Aussie FIngerlime have been grown from seed. As a matter of fact, the Grapefruits were personally selected and liberated by me :) . I was out in AZ at the end of 2001, I was out for a evening drive with my wife and sister in law, we went to the highest point in Phoenix, then on the way back I passed a former manson with a radio station billboard on it with some sort of event going on at the grounds. It had a semi circular driveway and the entire very large front lawn was fileld with quite old Grapefruit trees, all seemingly the same type. When I went 3/4 of the way around I stoped said what the hell, jumped out looked at a nice looking tree and picked 2 grapefruits off the tree, the biggest and best ones I could find, and tossed them into the car. I had to wait 1.5 months for the box for some reason to come back to NY that I shipped em in but they were intact and whole. I had the seeds of one of the grapefruits planted for me by a friend and co-worker, since he had better facilities and room for that. Once they gre we split up the bunch. I kept 3 seedling and the other 2 went with him. I think he has one tree left. The other 3 have been growing with me ever since. Grapefruits #1 & 2 were so close together that I decided no to seperate them, they seem sto be doing great otherwise so it has never been a worry.

The Key Limes were a bit simpler. Basically I bought a bag of "Susie" Key Limes in 2004, made a key Lime pie, saved the seeds, 15 seedlings grew. I lost 10 of them when I went away for 5 days and the pot they were in was not watered while I was gone. I planted the remainnig 5. One died in a month, another died suddenly of mysterious leaf loss the next year. Now of course I had a Key Lime almost die of the same mystery.

The Lemon was planted September of 2005. I palnted 6 seeds,only 1 came up. I thought I had a second plant but it turned out initally to look like a weed. I figured I would let the weed keep the lemon company for a while. I was almost ready to pull the weed and then it flowered, then about a month later I found a whole bunch of small thai peppers growing on it...lol. It was a seedling for when I planted some in the same pot 2 years previous. As you can tell I just stuck the seed in existing dirt. The Kumquat I bought at the local Stop and Shop in December of 2005 and got 2 seedlings from that. I will be transplanting them soon. The Aussie FIngerlime I bought from a place in South Carolina. I will be looking up the name of the place when I get to work tomorrow.

Anyway that is my story, so no grafts except on the Aussie, all is from seed.

VTY
-Mark

Sorry if my picture are not showing up. I had to post them on my old backup geocities account and they have a bandwidth limitation. I will repost them later this week as soon as I get my webserver back online.

VTY
-GunsaMaster

Mark, your pics are showing up on my end.

Is your Aussie tree growing in the ground? ARe those hundreds/thousands of thorns I'm seeing?

Well, congrats on growing most of your citrus from seeds. I've got calamondin seeds sowing now, but they're small babies. STill, I wish I knew how to graft.
Have any of your citrus flowered/fruited? Toni

The Aussie Fingerlime and all of the rest of my citrus collection are all growing in pots. When I acquire a house in the near future I hope to experiment with grafting and planting in the ground the most hardy citus & citroid plants I can find, maybe do some hybrids. If there is a list around showing all the hybrids tried that would be a great resource :) . My Grapefruits are grown from seeds originally from a grapefruit tree in AZ. One of the things I noticed was that over the past 5 years in that area, freezes were down to about 20 degrees, as well as many 30 degree freezes as well. I am only going by memory, not true imperical data however that is how I remmeber it in that area of Phoenix. So I may experiment with them in hybridization, maybe with fingerlime and or Deset Lime with some poncirus mixed in :) . Unfortunately none of my citrus has flowered yet. Depending on what you read will determine when you think your plant will flower. MY grapefruits for example I have read 5-7 years old, they are 4 years old right now. The Key Lime however, may take 15 years, although it can happen sooner. Lemon may ake 3-7 years. Aussie Fingerlime I have no idea. This is a graft on mature rootstock so this year or next should be a winner for that hopefully. Kumquat I have heard similar to the lemon with 3-7 years. I also have read much longer time periods for all of them as well. I got with the shorter timeframe myself :)

VTY
-Mark

Mark, I'm baffled about something..In a previous post you said you 'bought' a kumquat and the Finger Lime, right? Do you still have those trees?
My kumquat came from Fl, it was about 1 1/2 yrs old when I got it, yet blooms/fruits continuously. This winter my tree was loaded w/quats. They looked so nice, too. So, if you've got the plants, (not only seeds) the kumquat should bloom. I don't know anything about the other tree. Toni
Yes, I've read citrus started from seed can take anywhere from 7-14 yrs depending on the type. I hope yours fruit earlier than expected. Toni

Hey Toni,

The only plant I bought, up til today was the Austrailian FingerLime, all the rest of my trees were grown from seed. Until today at least, as I just bought a Calamondin Orange tree for $10.00. It is Citrus Mitis and has 12 3/4" fruits and about 15 flowers open on it now and more developing. It also has about 20 smaller than 1/8" developing fruit on it, and smells awsome. I have not determind if it is from seed or grafted to rootstock, although on inital inspection it looks like it is from seed. The 2 Kumquats I have are about 1 1/2" and 2 1/2" tall respectively (grown by seeds I pitted from the Kumquat & planted myself :) ) so I am not sure if they will grown any quats, but will see by next year.

VTY
-Mark

I just found the name of where I got my Fingerlime from. it was McKenzie Farms in South Carolina. He did the grafts from one sample he got from an Arboritum in Flordia. I think he also said he had some Yuzi the last time I spoke with him. I would recommend that you Malithion and Oil spray the hell out of the plant before it goes near any other ones you own. Otherwise all all should be cool.

VTY
-Mark

Hey everyone,

Well I have an update. The shoots went nuts as expected and for every leaf lost from the scale and the mites I wound up getting 8 leave or more in return from shoots. As a matter of fact there are shoots all over the place. I have posted fresh pics of all the new gowth on everything.

{{gwi:588981}}

The top of grapefruit #1 got incredibly bushy.

{{gwi:588983}}

The middle of Grapefruit #1&2 also shows this explosion in growth in the middle and bottom of the plant.

{{gwi:588985}}

Here is another shot of the bottom of Grapefruit #1&2.

{{gwi:588987}}

Here is a longshot of the grapefruit #1&2 twins.

{{gwi:588989}}

Not really growth but on grapefruit #1 a large japanese beetle slammed into one of the thorns with nasty results...lol.

{{gwi:588993}}

Grapefruit #3 about 1.5 weeks after the inital post..

{{gwi:588996}}

This is one of the extra petiole leaves that Grapefruit #3 seems to love to grow.

{{gwi:588999}}

I was trying to get another pic of the multileaf but just got the dense foliage that now lurks at the bottom of the grapefruit #3 tree.

{{gwi:589001}}

And another of Grapefruit #3.

{{gwi:589003}}

Wow now this is cool. A trifoliate Grapefruit tree. I wonder if what is in Hesperides showing the rooted leaf would actually work...hmmmmmmm.

{{gwi:589005}}

Here is a final shot of Grapefruit #3 leaf density.

{{gwi:589007}}

Here is the top of grapefruit #3.

{{gwi:589008}}

And a longshot of grapefruit #3's lower foliage.

{{gwi:589009}}

{{gwi:589010}}

Here are 2 longshots of grapefruit #3. Like I may have said before ,I am quite impressed.

{{gwi:589011}}

The Aussie Fingerlime has gotten into the act with a tremendous eruption of growth.

{{gwi:589012}}

Here is another shot of the Fingerlime.

{{gwi:589013}}

The keylimes (except #3) got into the act as well. Here is a shot of KeyLime #1

{{gwi:589014}}

A closeup of Keylime#1's new leaves.

{{gwi:589016}}

And Key Lime #2's new growth as well.

{{gwi:589018}}

Key Lime #3 did have new growth unfortunately the growth in the previous pictures whithered and died like the rest of the leaves what a shame.

There was a recent possible setback but I think I figured it out and found some real kewl stuff out along the way I will explain in the part II I am posting next.

VTY
-Mark