mystery citrus and too much rind

10 years ago

We recently bought a house with some citrus trees in the backyard. We've identified a few, but have questions remaining on one. We think it is a Palestine sweet lime, with a nutrient deficiency. The leaves on the Mystery Citrus are yellowed and the fruit is almost entirely pith. It is planted next to a grapefruit that also has yellowed leaves and pithy fruit (60% pith) (we don't think it is a pomelo as the previous owner said it was a grapefruit). I read that a phosphorus deficiency can manifest as a nitrogen deficiency (thus the yellowed leaves) and that a secondary symptom is dry, pithy fruit.

I am relatively new to citrus and would greatly appreciate it if the lurking experts could:
1) help me identify the mystery citrus
and
2) confirm or reject my nutrient deficiency theory.

Both citrus are planted in warm, sunny spots, although they get some dappled shade from a nearby ornamental cherry part of the day. They get bright sun in the morning/early afternoon and dappled sun in the later afternoon. While we are in Bay area, we are sunnier and warmer than SF or northern Berkeley (we are almost in Oakland).

Pictures are below:
Mystery Citrus leaves & blooms:
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Mystery Citrus branches w/ yellow leaves:
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Mystery Citrus fruit on tree:
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Mystery Citrus fruit w/ cherry for size comparison:
{{gwi:587750}}
Mystery Citrus, almost all pith inside:
{{gwi:587751}}
Yellowed leaves on grapefruit next to mystery:
{{gwi:587752}}
As mentioned, the grapefruit is also very pithy...... maybe 60% pith and then mealy, dry pulp.

This post was edited by Matsutake on Sun, May 12, 13 at 23:16

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Comments (5)

grrr4200
10 years ago
looks like a pumelo. they sometimes carry an aroma of marijuana.
hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
10 years ago
" I read that a phosphorus deficiency can manifest as a nitrogen deficiency (thus the yellowed leaves) and that a secondary symptom is dry, pithy fruit. "

Well, not exactly. You either have phosphorus deficiency, nitrogen deficiency, or both. I suspect you have multiple micro and macro deficiencies going on here, but I don't think severe phosphorus deficiency is contributing to this degree of pith. So, fertilize now, again in a month, and then in September. Give your tree one more fruit cycle and if it continues with this huge amount of pith, I would simply replace it with a more worthy cultivar. Taste the pulp and see if it has a sweet lemon flavor, or a grapefruit flavor. That will at least give you an idea of the group this citrus may fall under. Palestine lime tastes like watered down lemonade. But, to me, this appears to me to possibly be just rootstock at this time, and something you'll want to replace with a viable cultivar. You'll know because the fruit will be very bitter if it's just rootstock.

Patty S.

Here is a link that might be useful: UC IPM: Diseases & Disorders of Citrus Leaves & Twigs
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Not a Rangpur lime. That is easy to ID, as the skin when scratched will smell like a mandarin. And, the skin is more zipper-like, looking very much like a satsuma mandarin on the tree. This is definitely rootstock, and by the "velvety to the touch" skin, your customer most likely has some sort of poncirus trifoliate rootstock growing. I could not clearly see the leaves, but it appears some of the leaves are in groups of 3, which indicates a trifoliate rootstock. This can happen with grafted citrus, when they are neglected, and the scion dies, or, the rootstock sends up multiple shoots, overtaking the scion, and the scion simply dies. Time to shovel prune, and replant, unless your customer has experience top working and grafting, in which he could then top work the tree into a preferred cultivar. He would need to order clean budwood from CCPP, in that case. Patty S.
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Pomona pectin does sounds like a good thing and I am glad it works for you Ken. However, pips (seeds) are free! There is no extra work to getting them, since they are automatically separated when I juice. If I had used Pomona pectin for the two batches it would have cost me at least $20 dollars extra. Besides, I rather boil the seeds to make sure they do not go around sprouting when I use my compost, the last thing I need is more citrus trees ;-) (I am not complaining, but it is a bit overwhelming) Here are my notes on the Meyers Marmalade: 2 quarts slivered rinds (yes, two quarts, you read that right - and I did the peeling and slicing by hand, I just do not like the way they come out with the food processor - it was quite a 'zenful' activity....) 2 cups pips (seeds and some membrane) from juicing lemons 8 quarts Meyers lemon juice 10 lbs sugar After pip bag is boiled with the lemon juice, the pectin extracted, pip bag removed, slivered rind and sugar added, total volume = 10 1/2 quarts. Boiled down to 7 1/2 quarts, which made 14 1/2 pints by the time the game was over. The procedure for making it is just as described above, but this time we just used juice and no pulp. We used only the pips that came from the Meyer's we juiced. The consistency was not as firm as the mixed citrus marmalade, where I had saved pips in the freezer from previous juicings. The other differences were that there was a higher proportion of sugar, but this is because Meyers lemon juice is a lot more tart and a lot less sweet than the mix I had used earlier. We liked the slivered peels a lot in the first recipe posted in this thread, so we decided to increase the proportion of peels for the second batch (Meyers) and we really like it better this way, with more of the slivered peels. Compared to commercial marmalade these (both the mixed citrus and the meyers) taste like marmalade on steroids. Maybe more of a European taste than American taste. What I am trying to say is that it might not be to everybody's liking. We love it of course, this is why we make it. The mixed citrus marmalade ended up tasting similar to the classic Seville oranges marmalade (the grapefruit gives it the needed bitterness) and the Meyer's one is really tangy and has less bitterness. They are really different, I like both. Light was not good this morning for taking pictures of the product, so I will post those later.
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Dave I've asked them and it was purchased at an Asian market. Apparently only one of the markets they got it from tasted really sweet and flavorful. The one I ate must've came from a different store because mine wasn't very flavorful but it wasn't bitter either. It's probably hard to tell when it is properly ripe lol! Laura I've looked up pomelo hybrids and green pomelos with light/yellow flesh do seem to exist! It's very likely a pomelo hybrid, probably more pomelo in its nature. Parker Turtle I think pomelos just suffer from less popularity compared to grapefruit so you don't see many varieties in most stores except in the Asian ones. I've seen the enormous yellow pomelos in Asian markets and the yellow skinned grapefruit looking types but these green ones are probably a recent introduction. I feel like I've been seeing more citrus varieties in the markets this year though so maybe they're just expanding and testing out the response to different citrus selection these days!
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matsutake
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks Patty. Do you think I could just replace, or would I be better off grafting?

And can you recommend a fertilizer? I've looked here, but most fert recommendations tend to be for container plants.

Thanks!

This post was edited by Matsutake on Mon, May 13, 13 at 14:15
hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
10 years ago
Well, if you know how to graft, you can certainly give it a try. You can get certified from the UC CCPP and if you want, you can try to topwork the tree with several different varieties if you like. If you're not an experienced citrus grafter, or don't know someone who can help you, then you're probably better off simply replacing it with a cultivar you like and enjoy. For fertilizer, I do like Gro Power Citrus & Avocado Food. It has an optimal NPK ratio plus all the micros, and a lot of humic acid and humus, which is helpful for our thinner California soils. Or, you can just find a good quality 15-15-15 that has all the micros (Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, Manganese) like most commercial growers use. Lily Miller has a nice product. And, even Vigoro Citrus Fertilizer isn't a bad product, and it's easily found at your big box stores (Home Depot, Lowe's).

Patty S.
serge94501
10 years ago
We had our house in Berkeley next to Oakland for decades (between Berkeley Bowl's current location and Whole Foods). The citrus I planted grew better there than anywhere. Three Meyer lemons that bombarded me with fruit, a rangpur lime, kaffir lime, and a mandarin. The best performers were facing the bay.

You can get Gro-Power at Ewing Irrigation in San Leandro (off Doolittle - take the Davis exit off 880). They have 40# bags for between $40 and $50.

mystery citrus and too much rind

Comments (5)

grrr4200

hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

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mystery citrus and too much rind

Comments (5)

grrr4200

hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

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matsutakeOriginal Author

hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA

serge94501

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