I am having a hard time understanding how either of these selections would overwhelm established roses, especially such robust roses as A. Darby and Peace. Even planted in the ground, none of my integrifolias or integrifolia hybrids have grown with enough vigor to overwhelm anything they are planted with but they do spread throughout the planting bed pretty well :-) I've yet to grow any clematis (excluding montanas or SAC) that have ever overwhelmed an established, mature rose bush.

If your climate is warm now, then I'd most likely wait until fall or at least cooler temps to repot. Personally, I think these clems would look stunning growing amongst/through the roses and I'd replant in the ground in that location.

Thanks for your comments gardengal - especially a propos since we're close geographically, and it looks like you have oodles of experience.

One of the reasons I didn't want to yet place in the ground is because of comfrey growing behind the roses - well, now up through ÂePeaceÂf as well, sigh. 'Peace' seems to be suffering for it, and/or maybe for other reasons. The roses have a fair bit of blackspot; I'd prefer better access until (?if!) I get that under better control. Have just now pruned most of the dead bits, and will gradually prune more, after blooms, so also need access for that. I likely need to prune more aggressively in the first place, but so far IÂfm not adequately decisive.

I agree about how nice the clems would look with these roses, but it just seems to me they'd really cover them (& already were growing over a foot above Abe). There are about 9 hefty vine stems coming from each pot, with off-branching I think. One possibility for one of the blue clems is near a purple azalea - of course they wonÂft be in bloom at the same time. This azalea seems to be dying out on about half so the clematis could cover up the dead branches (& more)Âc though maybe not great if hope of it recovering significantly (sentimental value, coming from a family member). ThatÂfs a more shady area (north side of house).

I haven't looked/done enough rose/clematis combos to make a fully informed assessment of ÂgoverwhelmingÂh the rose. The only other ones we have are: 'Nelly Moser' growing up from under 'Compassion' (not such a great color match to my eyes, but now difficult to get at Nelly) - and 'Jackmanii' providing a nice bridging color between 'Elina' and 'Pink Peace' roses... but going up a trellis so not really on the roses. Hmmm, now that I think about it, also have 'Comptesse de Bouchard' getting mixed in (but usually mostly trellised beside) with 'Sunsprite', and 'The President' sort of trellised, mostly beside but also through a bit of 'Mary' rose (love that combo). None of those are super vigorous (probably need feeding). Our biggest clematis is probably 'Allanah' (gorgeous deep red, not near a rose) - I can't picture her right on a rose unless many of the vines were teased out to grow trellised outside of the rose too.

Also - back with the blue Integrifolias... there's another rose (label kaput so not sure what variety - it was so covered up that it hasn't seen much light of day lately), from large peat pot, that has rooted into the ground just adjacent to the clems, much closer than the other roses, such that if I dig the clems up, I'd probably need to extricate the roots from this rose (which ideally I'd move too).... too much, too close!!

I'll have to look more for combo pics. Meanwhile, probably will wait to move/re-pot ÂeBlue BoyÂf and ÂeBlue BellÂf. Maybe will try an obelisk for now.

Maybe I'm reading wrong, so just ignore this if you already know, but integrifolias are non-climbing. They will grow to about a foot or two and flop over or onto nearby supports, or scramble over the ground where there isn't support. They are especially useful for covering up a rose's bare legs.

I have both Blue Boy and Blue Bell - 2nd year in the ground. Neither are aggressive, both are gorgeous. I had to move Blue Boy the first week in June while it was blooming. I didn't want to, but I had to clear out the area for raised vegetable beds. It did fine.

If I were in your situation, I'd just cut the roots between the base of the pots and the ground, get the clematis out of the pots, and cut back any roots are are winding around the root ball. A lot of people are uncomfortable with root pruning, but in the long run it's better for the plant. If the roots are circling the pots, it could eventually strangle itself. I often wonder how many of the clematis that failed to thrive were planted in the ground with the root encircled around the rootball. The roots can't seek out moisture and nutrients if they are growing round and round at the base of the plant.

This is the main reason I don't like growing clematis out in pots. I like to give them room to grow and don't have to mess with the root mass twice, especially when the roots have circled around the bottom of the pot a couple of times. Clematis are so much easier to plant when the roots are young and easy to manipulate.

Thanks Janetpetiole for your input. I did read about Integrifolias being "non-climbing" and am very thankful, as that enabled relatively easy extrication from the roses and other plants. I guess the nearby perennials & roses provided enough support that they grew up (for lack of better wording, if not climbed - or maybe they did climb, but not "cling" via tendrils). Definitely more than a couple feet though.

I'm a little confused about terminology though. 'Blue Boy' is Integrifolia; have seen quoted growth to at least 2 metres (~6 ft). It seems our climate often allows for growth beyond oft-quoted usual heights of many plants however... and I am really lucky how well almost all our newer (being from year before last or so) clems have over-wintered in their pots.

But must look a bit more into 'Blue Bell', can't find much info except for some refs to 'Bushy Blue Bell' integrifolia. Have seen viticella 'Blue Bell' ref, but 'Polish Spirit' & others being viticella I didn't think bell shapes were (but I'm not up on the terms). The tags for our 2 blues have deteriorated significantly so I'll double check more closely.

On the roots in pots issue, I figured they weren't overly wound but had escaped since they seem so healthy & well esconced in ground. But, guess they certainly could be both coiled and escaped. Come time to move one way or the other, I think I'll try to cut away the pots first, to better see.

I've made so many "mistakes" in planting in ground, and without boundless energies (& good visualization skills), it's just a fact for the next while that lots of our plants will get potted up and moved around thusly. Not ideal in many ways, but ah well.

'Blue Boy' and any other integrifolia wants to be hard pruned all the way to the ground every year in early spring about the same time that you prune roses so planting them with roses is very workable.

I have seen Clematis integrifolia called "Blue Bell Clematis" but that was a common name for the species not a cultivar name.

I did find a reference to C. integrifolia ÂBushy Blue Bell but no pictures and then found 'Blue Bell' as an integrifolia on Clematis on the Web.

Here is a link that might be useful: blue bell

Ah thanks buyorsell - I did see that reference earlier but couldn't find it again somehow. That must be why it stuck in my head as Integrifolia, but that ref says height is less than one metre so much shorter than ours. Isn't that pic so cute?!

Rechecking the label - it is Viticella 'Blue Bell', from Clearview Nursery (see link below from that company; can click on 'Blue Bell' for a pic... indeed bell shaped). I've seen 'Blue Belle' on searching (not a bell shape), but the label clearly has no "e" on the end of Bell.

I was relieved to find they're both Type C pruning... my method of choice since it's so easy all 'round in our garden where we don't have an arbor or whatever to dedicate to the likes of C. montana.

I have started re-potting other clems from their 1 gallon pots... one with roots not at all crowded, and another whose roots were indeed fairly cramped and coiled.... used a 3 gallon pot there (trimmed the roots a bit), but that may be too small for 'Blue Boy' and 'Blue Bell'. Guess I won't be hoisting them around as much as I thought.

Here is a link that might be useful: Viticella 'Blue Bell': http://www.clearviewhort.com/clematis.htm

After deadheading 'Mary' rose yesterday - with 'The President' clematis running through & on her - I'm wondering how those of you with rose/clematis combos accomplish your deadheading. Takes a lot more time so not to break the clem stems, and/or more rose leaves and petals fall in the plants (an issue here with blackspot).

Btw, sorry for any confusion re 'Blue Bell' being Viticella and not Integrifolia.