Regarding the first blurry picture with the two 5 gallon pots - The little brug in the 2 litre pop bottle, was NOT in winter storage, I just used it for size comparison and for the idea.

-Sandy

WOW! What a great and informative show. I am impressed. Thank you very much.
Ingrid.

Very interesting!
Thanks!
Susan

Sandy, those are some great ideas! Thanks!

Theresa

Never used water crystals before. But read a lot about them.
Another method in trying to make our angels happy as can be ..thanks for sharing.

Now I never heard of using the meyer bags for cuttings yet...very interesting

Lucy

I was told not to use crystals.

NOW I CAN'T WAIT. i've had such a bad year though I won't have that many cuttings. the few I have, i'm gonna try rooting them with water crystals.

I'm going to try to grow some tomatoes this winter from seed. (the tomatoes for cold growing seasons - I'll try to grow a few plants this year in the green room with the brugs.)

Thanks for the information!

Great idea for rooting. I bet it would work in bucket with the large cuttings as well with just the bottom couple of inches in crystals. I might just try a few this way. I have seen people use large trash bags to put around the root ball of the dormant plants too.

Kristy:

I used bags fo the sunsport and the cadida last year. they were fine, BUT, make sure you getthat bag TIGHT around the roots. Keep the water near the roots.

Mine were fine last year. (ran out of pots)

Lol, I kept one in a bucket and just made sure there was a little water in the bottom under the root ball. I think I should start digging up the ones I want to grow that didn't do well in the front. Winter sneaks up fast sometimes.

i always root in water cut early in summer . but be careful they are poison the juice from the plant . rooting in soil all winter works to .but either way you got extra plants beautiful plants i have white and pink equator huge flowers love it signed tropical breeze

Glad you all liked the info. I knew you'd all want to know.

Kristy - Yes, they definately would work on larger cuttings.
I plan to wrap my Y branches in some cut up pieces of the Debbie Meyers bags and store them for 4(?) months and root them a couple(?) of months before spring in the water crystals. I don't have the room or the lighting requirements for that many plants let alone big ones but Charlie grows really fast even in it's first year.

We will still have to provide a container, such as a big 5 gallon water bottle, that we can put very small drill holes in the bottom to be able to rinse the water crystals off, if we plan to leave them in over an extended time as just crystals, just in case they develop any smell over a couple of weeks.

Actually, it would be wise to do that with any sized container for using water crystals, as the water does
condensate from the crystals or whats left on the outside of them and can collect in a pool on the bottom of the container, which kind of defeats the purpose of using the crystals for the initial rooting. I didn't put holes in my container, so I had to tip it over to 'spill' any excess water out, a few little holes would of taken care of the threat.

Technodweeb - I plan to try and overwinter thick tomato branches in the Debbie Meyer bags. We have such long winters here that I seldom get good sized tomato plants early enough. 4 months in the bags and 2 months earlier than last frost.

I have had too many experiences with stunted brug growth that grow from the cuttings grown indoors over 6 months. Which tend to be removed as soon as the other branches are showing they're much better growth BUT they would still have a better root system and some leaves to start off with.

Saving 4 months of lighting, heat, humidity, and the constant tending to watering, light fertilizing, just might make it worth it for some people, especially with long winters, to use the bags. But also sellers who can't safely ship cuttings in cold weather considering the temperatures of where they are at or where the cutting(s) are being sent. They would now have spring to send them out as well.

But I do agree that if you're up to tending to them all winter, do it for the better root ball.

And do be careful when taking cuttings out with crytals attached to the roots. I had no issues but the threat was there.

Enjoy your brugs - Sandy

PS. Most of the veteran's here know me and that I'm Canadian, we cannot ship plants over the border either way without a phyto - I was KINDA just joking...lol...4 yrs here and all those free offerings of the most beautiful brugs and I can't get my hands on them...it's a grin and bare it time - don't comment on that people - I know you empathize with me.

I was thinking of using the crystals in cups with drain holes in the bottom around the sides sitting in a tray. Then I could rinse them if needed and have drainage if I overdo the water. I have this gel stuff I feed my crickets and it dried out in a few days. How long do these plant kind stay wet?

Hi Kristy, Sorry for the delayed answer.
This is in regards to rooting our brugs in pure water crystals, not with soil.

The water crystals are said to last 2-3 years in an above freezing climate. I expect the same indoors but I'm also taking their word on this, as this was my first year using them.

If they shrink down, you would need to soak them in water to 'refill' them. I suppose you could set the cutting cup or pot in a bowl/pail, fill it up with spring/mineral water and then your bowl. I don't beleive that soaking a cutting for 6-8 hours would hurt it any. Although I'm sure you'll have plenty of roots before you'd ever have to consider replenishing the crystals.

Check for rot, fortunatly, unlike water which spreads that acidity and oxygen deprived water around your cutting(s)when there's rot present, the water crystals will contain it around where it started to rot. You should still have plenty of roots, so rinse the mush off and just plant the cutting and hope for the best.

If with dirt, the occasional watering aught to replenish them enough, unless they are neglected too long.

Threatened over here with below freezing weather, forcasted later this week, so I'll probably be a little busier - 7 brugs to bring in, 2 are in pots...and a few other overwinterers. Keeping an eye on the weather though, it might pass...

Drink in those brugs while we can. -Sandy

A bump for Barry aka Oxmix...well and of coarse for others who haven't gotten the latest news on my experiments yet. Definately new important info.

- Sandy

Sandy, I am a newbie to brugs and will be taking cuttings soon. I watched your slideshow several times. It looks like you use water crystals in the Debbie Meyer bags for storage. Is this accurate? Or are the water crystals added later when wanting the cuttings to root? Do I just put several cuttings in the bag and close the bag tightly? Do I put several cuttings in the bag with water crystals and close the bag tightly and leave until spring and then take them out for rooting?

Thanks for your clarification.

Bobbie

Hi Bobbie, Welcome. And to whom else this will concern.

I thought I put those pictures in good order but it too easy to presume everybody can fill in what's not said and thank you, as it is harder to know what a newbie might need to know first. I'll have to staighten that out right away.

You can use the bags to store without the crystals - Crystals are not necessary for lots of cuttings, but we don't like loosing them, so I experimented to find an alternative to constant water contact. The crystals are used for starting the rooting when you're ready to take care of them. You would then transfer to a soil for further rooting.

It is ABSOLUTELY a better thing to grow a rootball over winter on most kinds of brug cuttings, like 95% if not more. If only just to do your best to produce flowers in their first year. You want to provide the best possible conditions (like outside in summertime) for them to be at their best. Don't forget to occasionally mist or get moisture in the air around them, try to mimick the summertime.

The bags are used to store the brugs over winter for those who want to 1)keep them dormant for a month or two before spring and then root them (saves electricity and tending to but not all brugs are as fast growers as the hardy ones are for their first year, so we grow some throughout the winter for a nice rootball developed for spring), also, 2)for a backup plant for their big potted brugs or 3)for seller's who want to root them to sell them next year. It's pretty easy to tell if they made it through the winter. I'm sure there's other reasons for this method of overwintering to be useful to others but those are the 3 things I thought of others to value.

I'll post a seperate post for 'rooting cuttings in water crystals or with water', It's a little long but I'm pretty detailed. I'll post it here, sit tight I'm working on it.

-Sandy

Using water crystals for starting the rooting process:
This thread of this post is also posted in the main forum so if you read it there, don't trouble yourself to read it again.

The cutting has been a branch, above ground, but now we need a part of it to (1/2 ?) transform to a substrate rooting system.
Getting them this way before they shrivel up or turn to mush is the challenge, thus I suggest the crystals.

Shrivelling up is one of 2 things that I'm aware of 1) lack of water at the root area for too long in warm weather or 2)incapable of transforming to a root system, as would be a too green cutting. Usually these are taken off the end of branches with no matured nubs). People don't necessarily know you can't root this kind of cutting, not reasonably easy enough, so don't assume they screwed you over, ask first next time.

Booo on the mush....the dreaded mush. The value of the water crystals is multifold for us. Water crystals don't let chemicals caused from even the beginnings of rotting spread around the container which tends to choke out the oxygen, and creates a too toxic environment for roots to grow anywhere on the cutting.

Using water instead of cyrstals? The lesson here is, change your water every couple of days with room temp mineral/spring water and check for mush before it turns brown. See Checking below.

With crystals you don't change nothing, you check every couple of days out of curiousity, making sure they are getting their light and you give a sniff - it's not pleasant but you don't smell ammonia (rot) so of coarse you leave them in. The arguement being, the bigger roots there are to start in dirt = the less likely they are to fail. I had 3-4" roots on mine without mush but these are hardier brugs so don't be pushing it with yours - even an 1-2" is likely good enough. I stick mine right in a 2 litre pop bottle for the winter time - Should they get too big - old school is too big a plant for the pot is when the pot is 1/3 the heighth of the whole heighth but there are plants like figs that can get by with a whole lot less and brugs are similiar. I have a 6' plant in a 1' pot but it's not growing much taller...dwarfism/bonsai'd, so you call it.

A couple of mine had some mush on one of their ends, I suspect from too much cold exposure(?) over winter while in the bags (sticking out a bit), they were also in a brown paper bag (closed by folding over the top) which I will have to post to clarify as I neglected to mention it, which also helps to keep the temps stabler.

The rot didn't hurt the others because the rot stayed local - in the jelly crystals touching them. I simply cut off those end tips and reinserted the cuttings which grew fine (I did see roots coming in above the rotted area so I could of potted up at this time but I was experimenting and not planning to pot them ALL up).

In about 2-3 weeks (could be sooner or later)you'll be knowing it's time to pot up. Some would pot up as soon as the white nubbies had shown the transformation to root level stalk. If any sign of mush is showing at this point, (see Checking below)remove the mush and pot up. In this case, you may still lose it, if they are still only nubbies and the tissue is already showing damage and you can't grow the roots in the crystals, minimizing the cuttings contact with moisture further by potting in soil is your last chance. Just keep moist and don't overdue the watering. If you have a water meter, put it in as deep as your roots are planted and take the reading from in that area.

Pot up at the exact level that you rooted it at or a little deeper - don't confuse the plant.

If those white nubbies on your cuttings aren't growing roots but your cutting is fine, keep them in longer.

CHECKING THEM : Use your nose, if you smell something like ammonia, with clean hands, gently lift it out and run your finger down the cutting where it was in the water crystals - if any part is beginning to rot you will see it come off. If nothing slimes off put it back in. If the green outer layer, slides off you have mush, aka rot. If you don't have enough root growth showing, remove that end and reinsert in rinsed out crystals, or just somewhere else in the crystals where the rot did not touch. If you have a show of roots, you should pot up right away. How to rinse crystals is up in this post.

If you use water (jelly) crystals, mix the water crystals in the soil to.

Any questions? - Sandy

Sandy, this has been very interesting and informative.

A couple of years ago an ABADS member did a similar experiment with brug cuttings. She was interested in seeing if brug cuttings stored in a refrigrator would root after being in the frig. She took five cuttings, wrapped them in moist paper towels, then put them in a zip-lock baggie. She then placed them in a frig set at 48 degrees. This was done on 9/29/2007.

After one week she tried to root one cutting, it rooted. She continued doing this on weekly, then bi-weekly intervals until she potted up the last cutting on 12/16/2007.

To sum up, all cuttings rooted with no problems. The only attention she gave the cuttings while in the frig was to open the baggie every now and then to check the moisture level of the paper towels and to give the cuttings some new oxygen.

I really think that this is something that could be further explored.

As you noted, the least amount of care that cuttings can be given over the winter months would be a great work saver.

Anyone that maybe interested and has access to the ABADS forums, go to the Growing Brugmansia and Datura section and then look for the topic of: cuttings in frig???.

Thanks, Sandy. I thought that the crystals wouldn't be used for the storage but needed to be sure. I am overwintering two 5' potted brugs inside which I took cuttings from earlier. One of the cuttings (in water) has a small root forming, others have lots of white bumps. These extra cuttings would be backups.

Your welcome Bobbie. Just don't forget to water your dormant brug once a month with a cup of water (assuming you don't have a huge thing like my Charlie). That plant is more important than the others as you will get a much bigger plant next summer with it. The more root ball you have, the better the outcome for that year. That's why we trouble ourselves, at least the first year, to grow them inside throughout the winter.

David - Thanks for your input. They still survived even with the varying temperatures in my basements, ranging from above freezing to about 60F in spring. The warmer temps are a threat, so check more often then.

But I've only tested the hardier brugs' cuttings. But like I mentioned before, if the cuttings look like mine in the picture I can't see why it wouldn't work for them to.

Regarding the other woman's tests. That's only over a 2 1/2 month period, mine survived 5 months easily. I only checked a couple of times, so I doubt the oxygen is any issue to a dormant brug - you just don't want them to dehydrate or grow. Whoever had experimented with this might of had more to tell us had she more cuttings to leave in longer. Not everybody has a basement so a vegetable crisper would be a viable option if it were me, at least for a few cuttings - space permitting. That should work just as good as a basement, but I can only speak for the usage of the Debbie Meyer's vegetable bags in a brown paper bag (mind you the brown paper bag was for temp control and so might not be necessary in a refrigerator) but I'll try freezer bags this winter in the basement - no room in the crispers to test how long they'd survive there.

Thanks for sharing that David. I'm sure someone will find that useful info.

-Sandy

Sandy, Very informative. Thank you. I use water crystals in hanging baskets (great for Brug-In-A-Basket) & any pots that dry out too fast. If you put the crystals on the very bottom of the pot, you remove most of it when you take the plant inside for winter when you don't want the roots staying damp. I think they degrade faster in the sun so keep them buried under the soil. You can use them in inside or outside pots or directly in the garden outdoors. I tried one little area & it worked but the crystals all seem to crawl to the top & get wasted in the sun. I have not rooted anything in it but I am going to try it with some of my cuttings.

I wish I had put backup cuttings in a bag last winter when I lost most of my Brugs.

Linda