888, as my mother would say, in all facetiousness, "888, you are a goddamm JEWEL!!" And how very helpful that you spoke with the head of the collection(where is that, btw? website?)and referenced the england point.(btw, i'm thinking that england and portland have alot in common, and it seems like difficulty growing this clem. is a manifestation of that climactic sisterhood.)? from you i have learned: -no matter anything else, give it wicked good drainage -don't be surprised if it dies -feel lucky if it lasts long enough to be an annual. sunny, dare i be excited that mine might actually live if treated like yours? do tell us your location (and add it to your i.d.!!) so i can relate to your hopeful info. personal experience and professional references: to me, these combine to make the very most helpful info here on GW, so i am really thankful for you two posting. depending on sunny's response, i'm thinking to sink its 1 gal. plastic pot (it appears to be just a 1-2 yr baby though it has 10 blooms on it.)into a large glazed pot of soil, and bring that onto the screen porch, heavy mulched, for the winter. another GW poster on another thread- said that they had better luck growing on baby clems in their pots and then planting them in the ground after a yr or so. best, mindy www.cottonarboretum.com/

I would take any zone ratings for clematis, especially if they come from observations made by the British, with a grain of salt since their winters can be quite different than ours here in most parts of the US. The exact hardiness ratings of most clematis are not known with any certainty and their hardiness ratings may vary within any given gardening zone based on the winter conditions (say a zone 6 where it stays cold most of the winter vs. a zone 6 where the temperatures vacillate over the course of the winter). COTW is performing a survey to get the hardiness ratings/survivability of clematis from gardening zones around the world to help put some more data together on this subject. Clematis florida 'Sieboldii' is grown by friends in Michigan with no problems and the Toomey and Leeds book says it can be hardy to zone 6. Here in my zone 7a garden I had it survive winters quite nicely but the main problem with it was that it wilted several years in a row right as it was starting to bloom so it was removed from its place in the garden. Clematis florida 'Plena' is a sport of C. florida 'Sieboldii' and the Toomey and Leeds book says it is hardy in zones 7-9. Whether is would survive in your Michigan garden is uncertain but the only sure way to know for certain is to try it and see how it goes. There does seem to be confusion out there about the pruning types that C. florida the species and any of its cultivars fall into since Toomey and Leeds Encyclopedia lists the species as a type 2 and COTW lists it as a type 3, the Toomey and Leeds book says that Sieboldii can be treated as a type 2 or 3 and COTW lists it as a type 3, and the Toomey and Leeds book lists florida Plena as a type 2 and COTW has it is a type 3. Bottom line is that regardless of the pruning group a clematis may fall into, the hardiness ratings are not know with certainty, the only way to know if it will survive in your garden is to try it, and the fun in gardening is finding out what works and doesn't in your own individual microclimate. I know that I have listed this before but the owner of Seneca Hills Perennials, Ellen Hornig, sums it up best about using the gardening zones ratings as an indication of whether a plant will survive and flourish in your garden or not. See the link below and the section entitled Plant Hardiness concerning this. Here is a link that might be useful: Take on Plant Hardiness Ratings

Gardengal, I already mentioned that I have 20+ Clematis in containers of the same size (2G and more) with the same medium (Miracle Gro) at the same spot. All of them are perfectly fine except those two this year and one last year. Even a couple of babies in 1G pots survived and are growing like crazy. All these pots were grouped together and covered with leaves. To answer the second question: they do not need more time. They are DEAD. Both of them are almost decomposed :-( I can foresee one more question... No, they did not stay in soggy soil and the drainage was excellent. So, the bottom line: I lost 3 Clematis out of 30+ potted ones after 2 winters. All 3 of them were Evison's Patio Clemmies. All 3 of them had great rootballs when I bought them.

I'm in Saint Clair Shores. (further east than your daughter by about 30 or so minutes) From Farmington Hills your daughter would go 696 East the Gratiot exit. From the exit, turn right and drive approx 1 1/2 miles. The nursery is on the right-hand side just south of 10 mile road. They are open daily except for Sundays. The is another great nursery more out your way, well at least not in this direction. They do stock species clematis, but not cultivars like we normally discuss in this forum. I will include the link to their website at the bottom of this page. If the link does not work, the place is called Arrowhead Alpines and it is located in Fowlerville. For me the drive is worth it as they stock more unusual plants than almost anywhere else in the Midwest, heck they probably have one of the largest stock of plants in the country. ~Chills Here is a link that might be useful: Arrowhead Alpines