I'll preface this by saying that this is my opinion only, so others should feel free to jump in with their thoughts. Depending on the specific cultivar, not pruning a type 2 can result in a rather tangled and somewhat naked looking woody base with flowering restricted to the top portion of the vine. This may or may not be an issue depending on how and on what the vine is grown. And in a mild climate with a long growing season - like many zone 7's and my own zone 8 - hard pruning annually will simply result in a slightly delayed bloom season.

Like your clematis guru, I usually hard prune all my clematis each spring (except for type 1's) simply because there are too many and I don't have the time to differentiate or fine tune prune for type 2's. But I don't have all that many 2's :-)) And I say usually because I have been known to skip pruning entirely some years when my schedule just got away from me. It's really your choice.

Some type 2's seem to respond well to being treated like a Pruning group 3...the only thing (disavantage) is when you do hard prune those is that you won't get the early spring blooms from the old wood...but they will bloom later on...I am of the school that wilt is caused by the top growth being too much for the immature root system to handle and ergo wilt!!..Rarely have I ever seen any wilt after year three...so hard pruning your pruning group 2's the first year seems to me to allow the plant to focus on the root system to mature by not allowing it to use it's energy growing the vines....and from that year on I allow mine to be treated in my garden like a pruning group 2...I think Miquel treats his like 3's??..One clematis that I am finding is doing exceptionally well in my gardens as a pruning group 2 is "Ramona"..I can't WAIT to share pics of her this year..I have her companioned with climbing rosa "Royal Sunset" and the two of them are so harmoniously growing beautifully together..my Clematis is already 9 feet tall and leafing out like mad and my rose was a "Band" and has really taken off this year....Jeanne

Robert, some years I treat them like type 3's and some years I don't prune them at all. They seem to do well either way. Depends on whether I want those early blooms that particular year. They still bloom if you treat them like 3's, just later as eveyone has said. It's just easier to prune them as 3's or leave them be if they are growing in a massive rose.

Carol

Ditto to what others have said with one caveat. Some type IIs, the ones that bloom double, only bloom double on older wood. So if you are growing them, then treating them like type IIIs will prevent you from gettting the double blooms. Other than that, and the fact that they will bloom later in the year, I can see no disadvantage to treating type IIs like type IIIs especially for people growing them in the warmer zones. I have collected information from various people, some growing in zones as low as 5, who say that pruning them as type IIIs has not affected their type IIs from blooming. Experimentation in one's garden is the only way to determine what will actually work in your own garden.

thanks for all the info...

The disadvantage of not pruning them is that you often end up with two or three long spindly weak vines that produce few flowers.

I hard pruned type I and II Clems that were almost ten years old and had barely grown and bloomed and they tripled in size and had hundreds instead of dozens of flowers. I did it again the following year and this year since there are so many vines and I did want some height for privacy I only hard pruned about half of each one.

All of my newer (1-5 years old) clems were just hard pruned. Even the type I alpinas.

Another disadvantage to trimming type 2's now would be slightly smaller flowers on some, though this is negligible. Your zone and climate may affect yours differently, but I've started to prune my type 2's after they've bloomed. If I don't, they foliage looks ratty and dried out by mid-summer. So pruning gives me nicer leaves and the occasional 2nd flush.

I usually do not prune my type 2. I like to have those big blossoms in April and May when none of the type 3 are blooming for me. It gives me a longer season of bloom. I don't want all my clematis blooming June and July. Some of my type 2 that have never been hard pruned have 40 stems and some have 2 or 3. The amount of blossoms though doesn't seem to be dependent on the amount of stems. My John Paul II has only 2 stems and it bloomed from May to September for me with hundreds of flowers. There are lots of factors involved in flower production, not just how many stems it has.

All of mine that had never been hard pruned had one to three stems and about a dozen flowers a year even after almost ten years. They also had bare stems for six to eight feet. Therefore, I now hard prune.

Well, yesterday afternoon I got rather ruthless and pruned all my clematis to about 18"...I'm hoping this will promote more vigorous clematis for the long term. Next year I'll leave some of the type IIs not hard pruned to see if I can get some early flowers too. thanks, robert

On the farm we protect the bottom 12" or so from the rabbits (as the dog can't seem to catch them anymore) despite what type they are. As for pruning the rabbits do the bulk of it. Some of the clematis do okay by it and others have a hard time with being hard pruned every year. Since all of them get eaten to the snow level some years they are eaten lower than others and this year they should all be eaten to about 2', we have had a lot of snow this year.
Miguels observation about the doubles is a good one and that would explain why we hardly ever see the double flowers. I will pass that on to my mother, she will just get a little madder at the rabbit population!

Some get thicker and more stems at the base and some just continue what they always do and only put up a few stems. Although they do not generally get watered throughout the growing season as the well can't keep up with all the gardens. Which of course would effect the stength of the overall plant.

I have not seen the same issues with hard pruning the doubles as others have mentioned.........perhaps it is a reflection of my climate - who knows? At any rate, 'Belle of Woking', situated adjacent to my rabbit condo, gets her hard pruning just like all the others, yet sill produces an abundance of early double flowers. These do taper off (not quite as fully double) some as the season progresses but still maintain a presence. In fact, this is one of my best producing and hardest flowering clematis. It's also one of my oldest. Now that I think about it, maybe the proximity to the bunnies and their readily available fertilizer has something to do with it, also :-))

Would have to check on Belle of Woking GG. Some plants require old wood to flower double and some do not. Some also require a winter chill to produce double flowers in addition to old wood. See Edith Malek's book for more information on this.

One thing to note is that there doesn't have to be tons of old wood to produce some double flowers. My Proteus is pruned essentially as a type III most years. Depending on how much old wood I leave, there are always a few double flowers low down near ground level but the ones higher up are always singles.

My Multi Blue, Josephine and Violet Elizabeth have always had double flowers, even after hard pruning.

According to Edith's book, these clematis do not require winter chill or old wood to bloom double in zones 10 & 11 (don't know if these are her experiences with them in the warmer zones and whether these might be applicable in other zones as well):
Belle of Woking
Blue Light
Duchess of Edinburgh
Josephine
Multiblue
Violet Elizabeth
viticella Flora Plena (I think she means Flore Plena aka Mary Rose)
viticella Purpurea Plena Elegans

In zones 4 thru 9, the following clematis are doubles and those with an * require winter chill and old wood to produce doubles:
Belle of Woking
Blue Light
Daniel Deronda*
Duchess of Edinburg
Josephine
Kathleen Dunford*
Louise Rowe*
Mrs. Spencer Castle*
Mutliblue
Piilu*
Proteus*
Violet Elizabeth
viticella 'Mary Rose' (don't know why the different naming here)
viticella Purpurea Plena Elegans
Walter Pennell*