You cant legally so anyone who will would be bootlegging them in and you probably dont want to deal the shipper anyways if they are willing to do that.

mike

we're one of the banned states for citrus.

Charles, the only companies that can ship to you have to be in the state of Texas, since you are a quarantined state, just like us here in California.

Patty S.

Murcotts do grow in Texas. I have had several and let them die. They used to be sold in the big box stores. Back in the days when I was brainwashed into thinking we had to grow everything on trifoliate, I regrafted them onto trifoliate. Here's the rub, Murcotts are incompatable with trifoliate. And I knew that but the references I had said it took eight years to develop. Sadly, my grafts began to fail in just two or three years.

That is not why I quit growing them. Near Houston, they ripen very late, sometimes as late as March. Keeping the fruit on the tree that long makes the trees almost 100% alternate bearing. Meaning they skip a years production.

Not only that but if we get a late, hard freeze you loose all the fruit before it can be eaten. So Murcott is the only citrus I regularly buy at the market.

You can grow real good ones from seed if they are in a protected spot on the south or east side of the House. I've had several that people brought them to fruit tree sales wanting to know what kind they had grown. Or you could grow one on sour orange.

ttman, thanks for the input, but what do you mean by murcotts are incompatible with trifoliate?
I plan to grow them in a 15 gallon container and a portable greenhouse in the winter, if we ever get anything below mid 30's.
actually i finally found a place that ship to TX and ordered 1:
http://meyerlemontree.com/murcottorder_big.html

Charles: By incompatabile I mean the graft union begins to crease, causing it to weaken over time instead of healing and growing stronger and more difficult to detect like a normal one. At first it looks like it will normal.

Some Kumquats do a similar thing on sour orange.

thanks Patty for your warning.
But how can usda find out what you ordered from this place?

Read ALL the comments out on the Internet about this company online, Charles. Just Google the company's name. The NE Florida BBB has given this company an "F" rating. There are many, many, many comments about the USDA showing up at the doors of customers to confiscate their trees. The USDA is obviously monitoring this company. I can't tell you exactly how the USDA goes about finding out the customers. Possibly they've been able to subpoena company records. All I can tell you is this company has knowingly broken the law many times in shipping citrus out of their state (which is quarantined), or shipping into quarantined states. I misspoke when I said they were located in Georgia. Apparently they WERE located in Georgia, but now are located in Florida, which is an HLB quarantined state. That means that HLB (Citrus Greening) has been found in that state, and no citrus may leave that state. Because of illegal business practices like this, your state (Texas) now has HLB. It is a crisis ready to boil over for the US Citrus Industry. We all need to be responsible citrus owners, and abide by the law. Selfish and illegal practices from both greedy customers and nefarious businesses are costing the United States citrus industry billions of dollars and thousands of jobs. It is immoral & unconscionable in my opinion, to decide that you are above the law, and can make the deliberate decision to do something that could harm others. I just do not know how this company is still in business, frankly. Go to Dave's Garden Watchdog and look up the company by their website address, meyerlemontree.com. You'll see the comments I'm talking about. Why risk it? Why make things worse for your state? Find a local source for a Murcott mandarin, or something similar like Tango, which is actually superior to Murcott, in my opinion.

Patty S.

They do find out. Your should search for "The scoop on MeyerLemonTree.com" and read all the review people post

Wow....just read the scoop on MeyerLemonTree.com . What a shady company. Charles must be a numnutz. They are confiscating peoples trees even months or years later. The delay probably comes down to a court granting the USDA access to sales records.

Just to reiterate: I bought a citrus tree from MeyerLemonTree.com (and be careful there are 5-6 other websites run by the same guy). This was before I found out about 4winds and other reputable companies.

It was actually a key lime tree I purchased as a Father's Day gift for my dad.

The USDA had the records. They knew what kind of tree it was, they called the house, and they sent someone by and the tree was confiscated. This was about a year after it was purchased as a gift for my father.

I was eventually compensated by the owner but only after contacting the local DA where he was originally doing business. Until then the calls and emails were ignored.

You really *really* don't want to do business with this guy.

Thanks, redshirtcat. I knew I had remembered that someone on this forum had had personal dealings with this disreputable company, just couldn't remember who it was. I am stupified that this company is still in business! How does that happen??

Patty S.

It is absurd. I obviously had no idea the guy wasn't legally allowed to sell citrus out of state. He was in GA but his stock was smuggled out of Florida while they were under quarantine and before GA was under quarantine (according to the USDA).

As far as I can tell anyone who isn't doing a good bit of research before will *still* have no idea that he was selling the trees illegally (and might still be for all we know).

Of course asking the USDA why all of the websites under his control are still allowed to sell trees was a waste of time.

They will gladly run around the country confiscating trees, but shut down the source that's costing consumers the price of a tree? That's just crazy talk! The whole experience was infuriating. I don't know if they were just protecting their jobs or what.

Obviously one shouldn't deal with the guy selling the trees - but the USDA came out looking no better in my eyes.

They were operating *entirely* in the interest of the citrus industry. Obviously the industry needs to be protected but so do consumers buying the trees - and the USDA didn't (and apparently still doesn't) give a whit that consumers are being ripped off.

Now I'm all pissed off again and wish I hadn't read this thread.

Well, don't think it's the USDA's job to shut this guy down, but the local District Attorney. Yes, it stinks for customers and is inconvenient. You're out thirty bucks, and now have to look for a legal replacement tree. But to put it truly into perspective, look at the ramifications of this kind of illegal business practice - this type of activity is what has spread HLB to both Florida, costing them billions of dollars and thousands if not tens of thousands of jobs, and now poor Texas is heading down that road. I think the DA needs to get busy and get this guy behind bars. Unbelievable the scope of damage one company operating illegally can have on an entire state's citrus industry. Inconvenient for us consumers, devastating for those whose livelihood depend on being able to grow healthy citrus.

Patty S.

If I may ask a dumb question with hopes of someone not poking fun at my ignorance.

Of course I realize the issues that the quarantined states are being faced with but what I dont understand is this.

I assume that the nurseries in those states are only allowed to sell "clean" trees. If thats the case why wouldnt they be allowed to ship to a non citrus state like mine for example. Almost all the nurseries including Lowes and Homedepot here sell citrus during the summer. And they do move them pretty quick so I know there are many people growing them here, or trying to, LOL. But no one in Oklahoma can grow a citrus grove. I guess what I dont "get" is what is the risk of doing that. Could it be that someone might buy them and bootleg the tree say into Texas or somewhere else.

I dont know enough about the diseases that are causing the quarantine or what if any other problems could come from them. I do know that the idea of quarantine is to protect the other citrus states from having the same problems. But in a non-citrus state what is the risk they are trying to protect. Is it simply just "easier" to say nothing goes out to anywhere.

Mike

Mike - You can't control the disease unless you stop all shipment from an infected state. If an HLB infected tree was shipped from Florida to Oklahoma, it might end up near enough to the Texas border to spread the disease... or get moved across the border by someone ignorant of the danger.

Citrus greening is a bacteria spread by psyllids. It doesn't just make the fruit look bad, like scab. It kills the trees over a period of several years. It makes citrus production nearly impossible to sustain. It will be the end of American grown citrus if we do not find a way to deal with it. By the way, it most likely came here from China.

There is a protocol that will allow shipping of trees from Florida, and probably other quarantined states. It is expensive and complicated, resembling the vector control exercised by a hospital operating room. Some nurseries are working on certification, but none have been approved yet.

Larry

Thanks Patty and Larry. That makes sense now that I know the final shipper is not the one who makes sure the trees are clean among the other reasons. Lets just pray that California doesnt get quarantined so the rest of us can still get some trees.

Mike

Well, sadly, Mike, it's just a matter of time before California finds HLB. I know that they have a containment program in place for the Asian Citrus Psyllid, which HAS been found in California and we're currently under quarantine for. But, that containment program is for commercial growers of trees for resale and citrus orchardists. That doesn't count the millions of California residents that grow citrus trees in their backyards. So, we'll just have to see. I think the research in trying to develop HLB-resistent cultivars will continue to build steam. It is an expensive alternative - can you imagine commercial orchards having to replant their entire orchards with HLB-resistent cultivars - but I think this will eventually be the best option for controlling this disease. It is very much how to research is going with Pierce's Disease, which is jeopardizing the wine and table grape industry across the country. the development of resistant cultivars has been the direction of choice for this disease, and shows significant promise.

Patty S.

he what happened to that newbie post about having a positive experience ordering from meyerlemontree.com?

well, they told me they have a nursery in TX that's why they can ship citrus to TX.

Someone from GW deleted 5-6 posts in the thread.

Charles, I'm sure if you do a Google search you can find some other online nurseries in Texas. Check out their ratings on Garden Watchdog. Call your local Master Gardeners and ask where you can buy citrus both locally as well as online. Call you local garden center and see if they can special order what you want. Your state has some emergency quarantines in place right now, so if you're down in the southern part of the state, it may be harder to locate what you want.

Patty S.

For what it is worth a friend here in Florida just ordered two Satsuma Mandarin Orange trees from Myerlemontree.com and the trees arrived on time and are large and gorgeous.

hope your post will remain here in the thread bamboo rabbit:)

Patty, unfortunately no nursery in my city carry Murcott honey tangerine, unless you know another variety that is sweeter?

It should stay. I am not new to this site nor do I have a horse in the race. The trees were mentioned on the Florida board maybe 5 pages back in a post titled "Citrus". The person that bought them is a friend and I saw the trees at his house. They are very nice trees......it is what it is lol. Personally I never order trees. I like to see what I am buying and the growing conditions.

I'm sure that GW will allow Bamboo's message to stay, no problem at all with his post. Bamboo has been on this forum a long time, and is a respected and valued forum member. The other posts violated the TOS of GW, so they were removed.

As to another mandarin, heck, there are lots of other better choices than Murcott. Tango, USDA 88-2 if you can get it, and of course the incredible Seedless Kishu. They're small, but they are incredible. Sweetest mandarin going, but not insipidly sweet. They have a fantastic, complex "tangeriny" taste that is just super, duper sweet and complex. And they are just about the most seedless citrus fruit out there. Very exceptional mandarin, and I have many :-) Pixie is also a great little mandarin and very sweet. Gold Nugget cannot be beat for taste either. If cold temps are a concern, then the Frost Owari Satsuma is a great choice. Lots much better than Murcott out there, Charles :-)

Patty S.

I may hate you Patty........now I am looking for a Kishu..just when I thought I was done buying citrus.

Hah. You'll not be sorry. I must have eaten 10 of them at UCR on Saturday :-) It's really funny when you go to the Citrus Variety Collection - you can easily tell which trees produce the best fruit - there isn't any fruit at picking level on those trees! The worse tree for that? The 2 Kishus. We had to either have the tall folks reach up, or reach way into the tree to find fruits. Well worth it, though. Just delectable.

Patty S.

Finding one in Florida may be a problem, no luck so far.

Have you checked with the University of Florida to see if the budwood is available in Florida?

Patty S.

Patty,

No but I did find a commercial and mail order nursery that has them and is only 20 miles from my home. They have a perfect reputation so may have to break my no ship rule:)

Great bamboo! Let us know how the tree looks if you do break down and order one. You won't be disappointed with this variety, for sure :-)

Patty S.

Patty,

I have a friend who at one time had a couple hundred acres of citrus trying to work it out so I can pick the tree up in person. If that fails which it could as it is a friend of a friend thing I will order it. They also have a Duncan grape fruit so will order that as well....yes I know seedy.

The Kishu says not cold heardy, do you know what that translates to?

Here is the list of what they have (see link)....and here is what I already have

Ambersweet orange
Orlando Tangelo
Mineola Tangelo
Murcott Tangerine
Meyer lemon
Ruby Red Grapefruit
Velencia Orange
Navel Orange
Dancy Tangerine
Sunburst Tangerine
Ponkan
Eustis Limequat
Temple

....see any must haves on their list?

Here is a link that might be useful: Anything else look interesting?

I don't know that the Seedless Kishu is less cold tolerant than other mandarins, bamboo (although I see Britleaf seems to think so, ask them where they got their information from, this is news to me). Most mandarins are up there, as far as the line up for citrus cold tolerant varieties as a whole. So, we may be splitting hairs here, a degree or two. Certainly not like a lime tree, if that's what you're worried about. Of course, any of the Satsumas are very cold tolerant, and believe it or not, the Gold Nugget actually faired better with some wicked cold weather than the Satsumas for UC Riverside. I'd risk it, personally.

As far as "must haves", well certainly I would consider a Cara Cara navel orange. Very sweet, sweeter than it's parent, the Washington navel, and the flesh is a very pretty pink. Looks really nice in a salad, and of course, excellent for eating out of hand.

The Tarocco blood orange for sure. Might not be as pigmented as a Moro, but it's sweeter. And, if you can find a Breem Tarocco, it WILL be as pigmented. You get enough temp variation to make this a "must have" in your collection.

Consider a Flame grapefruit. I don't see that they have a Cocktail (or I think it's probably the same as your 'Golden'). I happen to love my Cocktail grapefruit (although it's not a grapefruit, but a pummelo/mandarin hybrid, as most likely is the 'Golden'). I love a sweeter grapefruit, but still having the characteristics of a grapefruit, but without all the wincing.

Lastly, a Meiwa kumquat is a great kumquat. Fatter, bigger and sweeter than all other kumquats. Very prolific producers, and the tree itself has a nice form. And they're very cold tolerant.

I see lots of mandarins, so I think the above are good choices to round things out a bit for you.

Patty S.

Jeepers, misspelled "Bream" Tarocco. Sorry about that!

Patty S.

Okay, apparently today is NOT the day to be able to spell correctly. Better get another cup of coffee.

Patty S.

I misspelled "hardy" lol so no worries. I forgot on my list I also have a blood orange, though I have no idea what kind it is. It was the only citrus tree or fruit tree here for that matter when we bought the house.

Thanks for the guidance.

can you experts give some input on these navel orange:

Skaggs Bonanza
N33
Everhard

Charles:

N-33 is a very fine tasting one in the Rio Grande valley. I have not had one here (south of Houston). The trees bear very well.

A friend said the Everhard is good in the Valley also. Of course he was a friend of the Everhards. We went by there but they didn't have any oranges, just lots of Meyer lemons, too early.

Never had a Skaggs either.