Lime and 5-1-1 Question

11 years ago

Hey Everyone!

I'm a newbie to container gardening and citrus growing, and this site has been FANTASTIC in helping guide me. So first, thanks to everyone for their postings and inadvertantly helping me!

Ok onto my question. I got a meyer lemon from four winds for christmas. I made pretty much every mistake within the first 2 weeks of ownership. I potted a 3 year old tree in a 10+ gallon container using MG Citrus/Palm/Cactus garbage (aka peat with a little bit of perlite!). I gave it a good watering when I potted and left it a lone for 3 weeks, and sure enough the soil was still sopping wet. The leaves were beginning to yellow and I knew I had to get it out of that mix. I re-potted in a 5 gal container using Al's 5-1-1. After feeling good about what I had done, and creating a complete mess of my living room from the activity, I realized I left the lime out!

How critical is the lime for the 5-1-1 mix? I know citrus prefers slightly acidic soil but I'm not sure of the repercussions for no adding it. Also, if it(or gypsum) is necessary, can I add it gradually when I water? I currently use Miracid for my fertilizer, teaspoon every 1-2 weeks right now. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

-Mike

Featured Answer

greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

11 years ago

Hey, everyone! :-)

Lime is not critical, as long as you're using appropriate fertilizer.
Yes, the pH of the media may be a little low (as Mike says, the bark and peat vary),
but the pH creeps upward over time as tap and fertilizer salts accumulate in the mix.
Typically, we attempt to mitigate this by adding white vinegar or another acidifier
to our watering/fertilizing solution.

I think you could put some of your mix in a cup, then soak with distilled water.
After a few minutes, pour off some of the water and test the pH. This should give
some idea of pH, although I'm sure it's not exact. The truth is, the pH of the media
itself isn't quite as important in a container as it is in the ground. The pH of the solution
with which we add fertilizer tends to be more important.

That said, I'd scratch some Lime into the upper layer of the mix once the tree establishes
itself in a few weeks. Be sure to cover the Lime with mix or mulch, then water into the mix.
What is the volume of the container that the tree is in?

Josh

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Comments (10)

meyermike_1micha
11 years ago
Mike, not bad at all and in fact the fact that you are using teh 5.1.1 mix is a huge head start!

The pH of both bark and peat varies, so the soil pH will as well. Unlimed, the 5:1:1 mix should be something around or a little south of 5.0. The gritty mix should be just a little under 6.0.

How much lime you add decides how much the pH is affected. If you want an acidic soil, don't add lime to the 5:1:1 mix, use gypsum instead. Then, you'll need to include Epsom salts in your fertilizer program because you'll be lacking sufficient Mg - even if you are using FP.

The lime puts both Mg and Ca into your mix while the Gypsum only adds Ca.

Mike:-)
baconquest
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks Mike!

Funny enough I think I have Gypsum and Epsom sitting around from my days of homebrewing! I might have some litmus paper somewhere too, which could help me determine what I should do with the pH situation. I'm guessing if it is very low I could add lime to my fertilizing regimen as well?

Its only been a day but the plant seems happier in the 5-1-1 and properly sized pot. Could just be coincedence or my eyes playing tricks on me but the leaves seem less droopy already.

Thanks again!
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In addition to providing calcium (and magnesium, if you're using dolomite), lime raises the pH of the 5-1-1 mix to a range that's optimal for most plants. Without the addition of lime, your mix will likely have a pH between 4 and 5, which will make it more difficult for all but acid soil adapted plants to acquire the nutrients that they need. So, although Foliage Pro provides Ca and Mg, you still have the pH issue that needs to be addressed. Nonetheless, if you're the type of person who likes to experiment, then you might want to try omitting the lime from a pot or two just to see what happens. It really depends on the plant in question and how willing you are to risk suboptimal growth. Finally, I'll also second zeuspaul's recommendation for a CRF. I've had better results when I've combined a CRF with Foliage Pro than when I've relied on Foliage Pro alone. This post was edited by shazaam on Sat, Aug 24, 13 at 10:37
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No Problem Laura at all...I am going to post an exert of that link I sent you..If you break it down it would be a tablespoon per gallon of mix..I always use those one gallon black containers and fill it will the mix then add a tablespoon.. Yes you can scratch it in...if a one gallon container, scratch in a tablespoon. If a two gallon, scratch in 2 tablespoons and so on) Here is the exert...Hope this helps.. "Q. What kind of lime do you use? Dolomitic. Q. What amount of lime should I add if I used 10 gal of pine bark fines and the corresponding amount of the other ingredients? @ 5:1:1, you'll end up with about 12 gallons of soil (the whole is not equal to the sum of the parts when you're talking about soils), so I would use about 10-12 Tbsp or 2/3-3/4 cup of lime.
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meyermike_1micha
11 years ago
Miker, no, your eyes are seeing the real thing!

I can't tell you how many times I have sunk a sickly looking tree into one of my mixes just to be met with a happy tree and a thank you the next day!

No need for lime really, if you are using both gypsum and epsom salts.
Don't foget, it's the pH of the watering solution that counts most in pots.

I am happy you have learned much here from all the wonderful people I have gotten to know and like!

Mike
mksmth zone 7a Tulsa Oklahoma
11 years ago
OK the amount of mikes on this forum has reached the max allowed. LoL.

Mike
jojosplants
11 years ago
LOL! Too Funny Mksmth!

Hi Mikes! :-)

Add to it my DH is named Mike. He's not a member here, but we are very close to MeyerMike and it can get confusing. lol..

Well, I forgot to put the lime in my mix too. Just realized it yesterday. :-) My tree is only in the 5-1-1 till spring though. I want to move it to gritty. It's a new tree, small, that I got a wal mart a few weeks ago.

And I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who makes a mess mixing these in the house! LOL! But I tell DH Im the maid so I'm allowed to make the mess. ;-)

Agreeing with MeyerMike, your tree is happier and your not imagining things. :-)

I got mine out of the peat mess right away. Like yours, it was still very wet after a few days!

Best Wishes!
JoJo
baconquest
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks for the help, everyone!

I got back from work yesterday and the tree looked even better. Its amazing. Its also really sad that Miracle Grow packages and markets that mix I was using as "Citrus Specific". I got ripped off. All of the ingredients for the 5-1-1 costed me a third of the Miracle Grow cost, and I have enough materials left over for 2 more batches.

My plan is to add some gypsum and epsom salts starting on the next watering. I'll do some digging for recommended doasage. Is this something I should just do indefinitely? Again I'm using Miracid for my fertilizer.

Thanks!

-Mike #5,492
meyermike_1micha
11 years ago
Hello my good friends, Josh, Jojo, Mike, Mike, Mike, and Mike.lo

You know, Josh has a great point and I don't know why I didn't think of it as I do this myself!
Why not make it easy for yourself and scratch some lime into your mix anyway?
It provides both the Calcium and Mg that your plants will need.

Mike
baconquest
Original Author
11 years ago
Great point Josh. I have a 5 gal pot.

You guys have been miracle workers. The leaves are darkening up nicely and it looks like its getting ready to pop out some buds. Its responded nicely to the 5-1-1 and the 85W full-spectrum CFL I have it under. Thanks!!!
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years ago
Cool, glad the tree seems to be adjusting well.

I'd start with 1 Tablespoon of Lime. Pull the mix back, evenly apply the Lime, spread the mix out.
Water very slowly, trickling the Lime into the mix. Depending upon how the plant reacts, another
Tablespoon of Lime could be added later in the Spring.

Like Mike said, it's so much easier *not* dealing with gypsum and epsom salts.

Josh

Lime and 5-1-1 Question

greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

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meyermike_1micha

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