Reconfirming: Liming with new 5-1-1 batch

11 years ago

Is it always considered best practice to lime a new batch of 5-1-1?

Should I still lime in 5-1-1 even if I plan to do the following?

- Water primarily with distilled water.
- Mix in a hard, alkaline tap water every 4th watering or so
- Fert exclusively with Foliage-Pro 9-3-6
- No CRF or gypsum

Thanks, guys! (I always do a search/read Al posts prior to my posting, so I try not to spam...BUT...I do have a lot of startup questions still).

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Comments (5)

greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years ago
Yes, add the Lime.

If you're planting blueberries, you can omit the Lime...although you'll still need to provide Cal/Mag.

Josh
0
oxboy555
Original Author
11 years ago
Greenman, can I ask precisely why the initial lime is necessary in the scenario I described in the OP?
0
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Almost all nurseries, garden centers, and big box stores will have dolomitic (garden lime) now or soon. The purpose of the lime in the 5:1:1 mix is twofold. It raises pH to what is a more favorable level for most plants, and serves as a source of both Ca and Mg. You CAN make the 5:1:1 mix w/o it for plants that prefer a more acidic medium, but it's not necessary. The best way to control pH is via the pH of your irrigation/fertigation water. If you DON'T use lime, you need to be sure you are supplying both Ca and Mg in your fertilizer (most soluble fertilizers lack both Ca & Mg) or by including CaSO4 (gypsum) in your soil and including some MgSO4 (Epsom salts) in your fertilizer regimen. Gypsum and Epsom salts contribute Ca ans Mg (respectively) w/o any significant impact on the p[H of the soil or soil solution. I remove ALL of the old soil from everything I pot or repot in the gritty mix. I sometimes do it over 2 repotting sessions in consecutive years, but I do try to be sure I don't leave any of the old soil on the roots. No need to let the gritty mix rest under any circumstances. The 5:1:1 mix would be better left to rest for a week (if it's moist) so the Ca can get through the reactive phase to where there is a residual fraction that is more readily available for uptake. That said, I very often plant in 5:1:1 I made the same day. I do try to use soil that I made a week earlier for anything prone to BER, though. Al
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I can't speak for Al. I hope he or someone else who has used this mix for a while will chime in. I always followed the advice to add one tablespoon of lime per gallon of mix and I prefer to measure five gallons of bark to three each of perlite and peat. My formula was closer to what he describes as a small batch: Small batch: 3 gallons pine bark 1/2 gallon peat 1/2 gallon perlite 4 tbsp lime (or gypsum in some cases) 1/4 cup CRF (if preferred) You will notice this is actually 6-1-1. Al has said many times that these formulas are really more of a general concept. I suspect he didn't want new gardeners to get hung up on making exact formulas. I don't think you should repot anything you just put into the mix you made. It is fine the way it is. I was mainly trying to explain why there was a difference in your measurements between the two batches.
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Something is going on here and I don't know what :D Sorry I left out the garden lime, I kept getten bitten my these mosiqtos. But I made my new batch. My camera ran out of juice before I could of taken close ups with the quater and stuff. But in the image is my new home for my Hot peppers. The perlite was from MG, kind of small but the best I could do at that store. BTW: that Pine Bark Mulch brought me back memories when I was a kid and smelled new mulch, my folks used to get their garden supplies from therre.. The local agway was only about 1/4 mile down the road back then. Also ironicly the store I went angd got this at is the farm from the Movie "signs" was filmed with Mel. Edit: I meant to say Left out the garden lime from the photo but I put the estimated amount in. Also As Ed stated above I added more peat moss plus was dealing small perlite. The only way to tell is the photos when the peppers come out. Also the bags shown in the photo were 7 Gallon Fabric from Viagrow 5 bags for $20 and the white are 5 gallon vinyle reflective bags that I purchased for (10) for $10 online. This post was edited by thebutcher on Wed, Jul 17, 13 at 20:51
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No Problem Laura at all...I am going to post an exert of that link I sent you..If you break it down it would be a tablespoon per gallon of mix..I always use those one gallon black containers and fill it will the mix then add a tablespoon.. Yes you can scratch it in...if a one gallon container, scratch in a tablespoon. If a two gallon, scratch in 2 tablespoons and so on) Here is the exert...Hope this helps.. "Q. What kind of lime do you use? Dolomitic. Q. What amount of lime should I add if I used 10 gal of pine bark fines and the corresponding amount of the other ingredients? @ 5:1:1, you'll end up with about 12 gallons of soil (the whole is not equal to the sum of the parts when you're talking about soils), so I would use about 10-12 Tbsp or 2/3-3/4 cup of lime.
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zeuspaul
11 years ago
No CRF or gypsum

Is your bark well composted?

I recently experimented with a few 511 variations. There was a very noticable difference between the mixes with nitrogen in the mixes vs the mixes without nitrogen applied in the mix. By noticable I mean the squash plants in the mix with nitrogen are currently more than twice the size of those without fertilizer in the mix.

Zeuspaul
0
Ernie
11 years ago
In addition to providing calcium (and magnesium, if you're using dolomite), lime raises the pH of the 5-1-1 mix to a range that's optimal for most plants. Without the addition of lime, your mix will likely have a pH between 4 and 5, which will make it more difficult for all but acid soil adapted plants to acquire the nutrients that they need. So, although Foliage Pro provides Ca and Mg, you still have the pH issue that needs to be addressed.

Nonetheless, if you're the type of person who likes to experiment, then you might want to try omitting the lime from a pot or two just to see what happens. It really depends on the plant in question and how willing you are to risk suboptimal growth.

Finally, I'll also second zeuspaul's recommendation for a CRF. I've had better results when I've combined a CRF with Foliage Pro than when I've relied on Foliage Pro alone.

This post was edited by shazaam on Sat, Aug 24, 13 at 10:37
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years ago
Thanks, Shazaam. You hit all the main points.

Josh
0

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Reconfirming: Liming with new 5-1-1 batch

Comments (5)

greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

oxboy555
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Reconfirming: Liming with new 5-1-1 batch

Comments (5)

greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

oxboy555Original Author

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zeuspaul

Ernie

greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a

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oxboy555
Original Author