Question For Those That Root Big Jade Trunks

14 years ago

Here's the deal. I plan on starting over with this plant. The roots are ugly and a distraction and will always be so.

{{gwi:564965}}

Planting deeper to hide offending roots is not an option. The goal is to go shallower than it is now. I'm fairly confident I can strip most of the foliage off and re root the 4 inch diameter trunk just a few inches above the soil line.

But that will take some effort which I will do if necessary.

I would prefer to air layer the plant. Build a basket of soil around the trunk After I put a 1 inch ring and v cut into the trunk. Has anyone done this?

Would I be better off just rooting it as a regular cutting?

Please no sympathy for the plant. It's only a plant. If I can't fix a couple things on it, it will get chopped up to start new ones anyway. I would prefer to make this work because of the time invested so far.

randy

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Comments (20)

caudex1
14 years ago
I'd say try the air laying 1st, you can always root it the traditional way later.

My large jade sends out aerial roots when I don't water enough, like when you throw a branch on the ground and it establishes itself.
rjj1
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks Keith. I'm going to ponder it for a while and come up with a plan.

randy
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Thank you all for the prompt responses. First of all, yes, I'm new to succulents. I've had no interest in growing anything that couldn't survive outside all year in my native climate until recently. I've specifically become enamored with crassulas (largely because it was a mature jade given to me that kick-started the obsession). In the last two months, I've poured over these forums on a daily basis, done quite a bit of research elsewhere, and it's gotten to the point where almost everything I read I've already learned, digested, taken notes on, etc. I understand I can't gain experience on the internet, but I'm going to milk what it can offer me for all it's worth. Why do I want to separate the trunks? Because I work with bonsai, and I want to train these as "large" bonsai. I agree that aesthetically it looks great now, but I won't like the way this plant will look in the future if I leave both trunks there. I know that much. I would also prefer the plant puts all its growth into the one trunk as soon as possible. The bigger they get, and the closer their bases grow together, the harder this is going to be down the line. I didn't think this would be a big deal. And if it is, fine. I'll just whack one trunk off above the soil line and try to root it. I'm not offended (really), but not sure why this would be considered overly ambitious. To clear up confusion on my #2 point: I was concerned that if I were to cut these in half (beneath the soil line) that I would run the risk of the plants rotting after I planted them and eventually resumed watering them. They BOTH would have roots already attached, but BOTH would need to heal the separation cut before being watered. While it's claimed that I haven't learned that "your new plant can stand to be bare root for a while, does it no harm at all. As long as it's not in direct sun & is kept DRY, it can be out of mix for a while", I actually have learned this. I've read that and learned that, but it's always phrased similarly. This stuff is all relative. What's a "while"? With other plants, that could refer to a few hours. The plant has been uprooted and dry for a 8 days now. Specifics can be rare when you start looking for them. That's where my confusion comes from. I was never concerned about a week, but two? three? If I were to cut them in half, I would have to leave them unwatered for even longer. What's my limit? As for my plucked leaf theory... the more leaves that were plucked, the softer and wrinklier the branch. (And that's no stretch, it's plain as day). It's the only variable that was changed. I'm just not sure why seeming "anxious" or "ambitious" prevents me from learning how to properly execute a procedure on a notoriously "easy" plant to work with. I've worked successfully with much trickier plants for many years. I can plant the jade as it is, care for it perfectly for years and years, but I'm not going to learn a thing about separating trunks beneath the soil until I ask about it, learn about it, and do it. Right? I'll be right back here asking the same thing, which can be soiled down to: "how risky is this?" If it's obvious I don't "get" some things, please point me in the right direction to acquire that knowledge. After months of reading, I think I get the "basics" (and am tired of reading them, as I'm sure you're all tired of posting them). I just have some specific questions, because I AM ambitious, and eager, and curious. That's why I'm reading the manuals, so to speak, before doing anything I'll later regret. I'm sure everyone can understand that. Oh yeah. As for the cuttings not holding water? They are not potted up. I was advised to let them callus over for at least a week before doing that. It's funny, actually, because they are "standing up DRY in an empty clay pot in the shade". Or were, rather. I moved them inside earlier today, since the trunks have lost 20% of their size in that environment. Thank you, again, for all the responses. I hope my tone isn't too defensive, just trying to clear some things up. I really appreciate the responses. Gray
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wow! I'm glad I asked. I was about to cut up the other one, too. So, just to be clear--I have the two sister plants--one that I cut up, and one that I held back on. I agree with you that this looks similar to underwatering--but I do remember it looking a bit underwatered not long ago, and giving it lots of water to perk up, so I'm fairly certain that it's overwatered (especially since I'm squeezing water out of the wilted leaves). Just to make sure--despite that the very bottom near the trunk is quite squishy now, judging by the inside of the sister plant after I cut it up, maybe I'll hold off on cutting up this one for the time being --- but I should trim the roots of BOTH plants (?) here is the plant still in one piece, that currently still is squishy on the base stem right near the roots: And if you're curious, here is everything I have from the sister plant that I already cut up (i assumed the base trunk was rotten, so made several mini trees out of it)--I assume (hope) I cut them in a good spot, but can still correct if it doesn't look good: Per your suggestion, I trimmed the little portruding piece of branch off the trunk and see if the trunk comes back to life (maybe I got too close?). Here it is now: I think the cuttings for this are clean and not rotting. They are basically firm. Maybe I'll give them a little bonsai wire in addition to some rocks so they can stand up... As far as repotting--the rocks in the white container were just decorative on top of the soil, and just got mixed up. I use 50/50 perlite/succulent soil---in fact, I think you taught me that a couple of years back! :) .... I would be curious if you have an opinion on using rooting hormone on the stem. I notice in your other thread you suggest cinnamon... would either one suffice? Here is what I have: also--some websites--including some of the threads here--say that I should wait to repot until roots are showing.... but that could take weeks, I would think. Is it ok to repot without roots? Maybe I should use more perlite in that case (75/25)? Anyway, thanks again! I'll be interested to know your final thoughts, and I'll give you an update down the road and let you know how the jades are doing!!!! :)
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
14 years ago
Good morning, Randy.
(Happy Father's day to any of you dads out there)

First of all, I've always been very fond of this Jade.

As to rooting....well, I think it'll root for you, no matter what route
you go. The air layering would probably be cleanest, and would allow you to
retain that thick diameter trunk base. And, as Keith mentioned, you can
always root the traditional way if the layering fails to produce roots.

I had to share this Jade/Thread with my mom, since we're both Jade enthusiasts.
She suggested that you remove the lowest (right side) branch entirely, and then
shorten the "trunk" by about three inches. But she's no expert....

I can't wait to see what you come up with.

Josh
rjj1
Original Author
14 years ago
Josh,

Your mom has a good eye. What she recommended has merit. It's another possible solution. The front of the plant would be rotated a few degrees to put that cut from the lower limb in the back. Then it would be rooted at at the middle of the large scar a few inches up from the soil line.

That would make the plant lighter and easier to handle during the process.

More to think about. Tell her thanks. :-)

randy
rjj1
Original Author
14 years ago
While I contemplate what to do, did a little cosmetic surgery on the lumpy looking growth at the soil line. Sliced it off and applied a mix of wood glue, gray, and black acrylic paint to make it blend in with the rest of the plant.

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randy
joscience
14 years ago
Nice work Randy! I think you are ready to move out to Beverly Hills and open up a practice of your own! ;-)
rjj1
Original Author
14 years ago
OK. The thinking period is officially over. The big plant has ticked me off for the last time. It's not wise to mess with the one who has the ultimate power of life and death.

I removed the wire on the lower limb and it bounced right back upright within 2 hours. That limb is no longer upright. It has fought me one too many times. I won't even consider rooting it. It's compost.

This will make an exceptional plant after it roots.

clickable thumbs

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randy
caudex1
14 years ago
You can tell from the 4th photo that this procedure will make a huge improvement in the presentation and staging.
joscience
14 years ago
Hard to believe how much better it looks without that branch!
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
14 years ago
Fantastic decision, Randy!
I'm glad you removed that branch....I can't wait to let my mom know ;)

The new structure is excellent. Great balance!

I assume you'll also allow that thick trunk to resprout?

Josh
rjj1
Original Author
14 years ago
Keith and J,

Thanks. Starting over with the plant has definitely improved the quality of the material. This will be the biggest crassula cutting I've rooted.

Josh,

Thanks. I will keep the stump for now just to see what it does.

randy
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
14 years ago
Once the top "internode" section dries up and drops off, it should reveal a nice smooth surface beneath.....
then, a bunch of tiny red leaflets! It's going to be quite colorful. I'd be surprised if it took more than a week to begin sprouting.

I wonder how many branches it'll produce along the outer edge?

As always, keep us updated!

Josh
prayerrock
14 years ago
That is awesome Randy..it makes it look so much better!

Looking foward to seeing it in the future.

Mary
paracelsus
14 years ago
As always, it's fun watch the Jade Bonsai Master at work.
~B
cactusmcharris, interior BC Z4/5
14 years ago
Brad,

You've not met Rudy Lime, the SDCSS's SMOLA Jedi?

Randy,

I think of the literally hundreds of pounds of Crassula stumps that I disposed of....it causes me to weep now to think what I could have been doing with them then.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rudy Lime - Living Treasure
norma_2006
14 years ago
Randy, I am going to tease you now, that is not a big plant to me.
I congratulate you, you were brave to do that, I don't have the eye for bonsai. I'll always send you one if it croaks. I was at a bonsai auction in San Francisco, one 'Jade' went for
$400 and it was not that impressive, just big. I hope you will post a picture when it leafs out. Marks are not an inperfection, it adds character and often it is done deliberty just for that purpose. Norma
rjj1
Original Author
14 years ago
Hi Norma,

It's decent sized one for this neck of the woods. I've had bigger, but not nicer.

You might not remember, but you sent me this one as a small cutting. :-)

I appreciate your offer. But I've started many a plant from this one over the years and have a few waiting for their turn to shine.

Take care Crassulady

randy
cactusmcharris, interior BC Z4/5
14 years ago
Randy,

That Norma is a sharer, isn't she!?!

This particular plant is the one left after I had removed 4 others like it (but smaller) to make room for more plants that weren't Crassula ovata. Yes, a number of cuttings of this plant (The Great Wall of Jade, Where Kitties Lurk) had gone out to various parts of the States over the years. But getting back to the four others that gave up their spaces so that other plants may live, I remember removing them in February, when they were all watered up from the winter rains. The dumpster was groaning under the wait of hundreds of kilos of the four chopped up plants, I tell ya.

The one pictured was about 8' tall at the time of the pic (likely in March, because the brown patches are spent flowers) and got no sun in the winter (the wall behind that prevented it). Yet, almost on schedule, you'd have flowers on Christmas Day.

{{gwi:551463}}
rjj1
Original Author
14 years ago
Jeffrey,

Norma is quite the lady.

Do you ever sit at your desk there in BC and reminisce of bygone days about the TGWOJWKL? Oh silly me, you just did. :-)

randy
cactusmcharris, interior BC Z4/5
14 years ago
Silly Randy,

Of course, but that's kind of going backwards, isn't it? I now can grow peonies and delphiniums and I get only 9 months to do it in! I'll save the reminiscing for winter, along with the scheming, planning and preparing for next spring. Winter's also the easiest time for me to move the 200lb boulders - you get a dog blanket, roll the rock on it and drag it across the snow. Not only is it good cardio, the dogs think it's great fun to ride along.

{{gwi:564983}}

Costco's already got winter clothing out and it's 28C here today. The one Crassula ovata I have here - I had severely trimmed it several weeks ago, and said trimming got a negative response from my better half. I guess I shouldn't tell her about the new buds on the denuded limbs.

Question For Those That Root Big Jade Trunks

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