Butterflutter,

Here's the thing: the heat is a big culprit. Yep, it is. This time of the year causes a LOT of problems. The heat plus the added humidity of the moisture from the water pics as well as the moisture from the leaves may be adding to the problem. I am assuming that ALL of your Milkweed is pesticide- and fertilizer-free. The reason I say this is because I found that I had a bunch of Monarchs die because my hubby, bless his heart, had fertilized my Milkweed (foliar feed) and although the 'vitamins' were all organic the poor caterpillars could not synthesize the stuff on the leaves. I had a lot of that 'green diarrhea,' as a result. Now he knows to NOT foliar feed any of my plants.

I've learned that whenever you 'rescue' a caterpillar, you just cannot know if the poor dear is sick or not to begin with. I've decided that from now on, if I find/see a caterpillar on a plant, I just LEAVE it. Yep, that's right...you heard me right. I leave the little ones out there. Why? Because I've found that a majority of the ones that have been brought in have a less than good chance of completing the full life-cycle. They may have been parasitized, contracted a virus from living in the hot, humid outdoors, etc. These things are all beyond my control and I don't want to risk spreading any of the dreaded illnesses to my others.

Even collecting eggs isn't without risk. I am super careful with larvae that hatch. Anything that appears unusual is quickly isolated.

If it will make you feel any better (and I don't know if it will or not)...my last 'batch' or should I say my mid-summer batch of Monarchs were a pathetic group. I had a LOT to start with but many came down with some viral/bacterial thing and I ended up simply euthanizing huge groups of them. I didn't even bat an eye...if something was even remotely 'ill looking' to me, it was EUTHANIZE.

I prefer to have a few healthy butterflies than a lot of unhealthy ones.

Hang in there!

Butterflutter, I'm not at all upset that monarchs don't visit me often. I've had an entire batch of them die from the black death, I guess it was. The other butterflies we get here are much healthier, so I don't have to go through all that misery.
I bring in caterpillars, rarely eggs. For whatever reason, I don't have the problems of parasitization that other areas do - maybe it's because out here in the woods, there are so many tent caterpillars that they can use, which is the preferred victim for many of them, or so I've read.
I raise all my cats on my front porch, which is shaded, in mesh-covered butterfly cages that get total ventilation. Plastic containers may work fine for western, low-humidity areas, but for our very humid southeast, I think air flow is vital! Since it's been so hot here lately, I've turned the two ceiling fans to the fastest setting - "hurricane" to me - to not only cool the porch, but keep the air flowing.
I've had a VERY high success rate with my butterflies, at least 95%, probably more. I'm trying to get my big moth rate that high! Of course, one reason is my abundance of host plant material, which makes it possible for my cats to get fresh, new growth or semi-mature leaves at all stages of their caterpillar life.
One reason we don't get as many monarchs as other parts of the country is undoubtedly the lack of natural milkweed - the only type I find here is a. lanceolata and a. incarnata var. pulcherima, both swamp types, and I've never found a cat on either of them. Another reason may be the high humidity, which activates all the disease they're prone to, which may also be the reason the better MWs don't grow here.
If I were you, I'd invest in a good reptarium/butterfly cage so you can keep your cats well ventilated. If they're monarchs, they may get diseases anyway, but they're wonderful for raising all types of cats, especially here in hot/humid south Mississippi.
Do you have passionvines for gulf frits? They're very easy to raise, so they make a great starter caterpillar. Their absolute favorite host plant is passiflora incarnata/maypops, which probably grows wild near you.
MissSherry

Are you sure you don't have a neighbor or the township spraying anything in your area, close to where you milkweed is?

Thank you both tdogmom and MissSherry for taking the time to respond to my plea. I think you are both right when you mention the humidity. MissSherry, you and I both know how horrible the humidity has been lately along with the 100 plus days. I have noticed that when I remove the lid alot of heat escapes and some times there is condensation accumulating on the outside of the box. I will change that situation as best I can immediately.
Tdogmom, no these milkweed have had no fertilize since the spring so I don't think that is a problem, however, I am shocked to learn that you don't make rescues from the wild. Do you mailorder?
The reason I want to foster these monarch's is that they have such a hard time here in the wild with predators like wasps, ants, etc. Other butterflies that are native here just seem to fare better.
Yes, MissSHerry, I do have passionvine and lots of it by our pond but I have had very few GF's this year. Last year I had tons of them. Where do you purchase the butterfly cages? By the way, I have about 50 monarch cats left but thank goodness I've not rescued them yet!!!
And the 4 sick ones are still alive this morn and appear to be doing somewhat better, they are receiving better venilation as well. Butterflutter

Butterflutter,

I agree with tdogmom, it's the heat. I raise all my monarchs inside during the heat of the summer. Also, I isolate any caterpillar that looks "different." If you are raising about 8 or so cats at a time, it may pay to get small containers and raise them individually.

Also, I am not bleaching containers, as it seems I had problems after I did that. I use vinegar to disinfect. I soak my containers for about a half hour or longer in vinegar solution, about half water and half vinegar, and add all the pics, etc to the solution. Then I rinse them thoroughly and let them air dry. I learned about this from cleaning hummingbird feeders and thought I'd try it with my cats. I have had better results doing this.

I am also making sure, since I raise quite a few varieties of cats, that I don't cross contaminate. Certain pics are for BSTs, etc, and certain pics are for Monarchs.

My monarch survival rate is way up from earlier this spring, but I had a cat with a parasite just this week. Thankfully, I had isolated this cat as it didn't look quite right.

Hope this helps you. The use of vinegar as a disinfectant may be controversial, but it works for me.

OKSandy

I am SOOOOO glad I read this message. Of the 9 cats I found, only 3 are left, and 1 is about to go. It is the green runny stuff. I have found 3 of them just flattened, as though they had been sucked dry, in the bottom of the container. The others are just dead, prolegs up in the air.

I had decided I am not going to bring any more in right now with our heat. I don't know if it is that or OE or black death, or what, but the fact remains that this is apparently not a good Monarch raising year so far, and I just started! Nothing I have done. I've been cleaning cages, replacing paper towels, washing milkweed, everything I can possibly think of, but it hasn't really mattered - they are still dying.

I have a bunch of PVS I'm still raising, 3 GSTs, and that will be it for awhile - plus Sandy is going to bring me a couple of Spicebush cats.

The Gulf Frits are still eclosing (I must have had at least 60 of them), but I am leaving them on the vine now - just too many to bring them in.

The easiest to raise are the GFs and the QMs IMHO. I've had a few problems with the BSTs, very minor problems with the PVS's, and major problems with the Monarchs. So, I'm just going to go with leaving them outside until the weather begins to cooperate, and I will start again with just a very few.

It is disheartening to get up every morning and start to clean the containers and feed the Monarch cats, only to find 2 more dead.

I've been out murdering milkweed bugs and beetles. I must have squished at least 12 of the beetles this morning on the flowers - MATING, no less. I did find a batch of eggs that I believe are theres - smush!

Altho I have seen lots and lots of butterflies this year, there are so many predators and diseases right now that I wonder "how" there are so many on the wing.

Anyway, Butterflutter, you're not alone. I hope that soon they will snap out of this affliction and we'll start having healthy caterpillars again soon.

Susan

I drilled large holes in my lid and then put it back on after putting window screen over the top. That way there is air circulation. When they get bigger they go into a screened cage. I use newspaper and they don't have problems with that at all. Also you never get 100% of those cats you are helping. It's just natures way.

Penny

Butterflutter, personally, due to the humidity, I don't ever think plastic containers are good for caterpillar raising in south MS - people who don't live here don't understand, but we do. I agree with Susan that QMs and GFs are probably the easiest cats to raise. I raise those and lots of more difficult to raise cats, but having a mesh cage makes even the difficult ones "doable" - I still have a very high percentage success rate with them, too.
The best prices on butterfly/reptile cages is at a company in Washington State. They also carry the replacement covers, which is good, because that's the part of the cage that wears out - all that zipping and unzipping causes the zippers to eventually go bad.
Here's a link to that company.
MissSherry

Here is a link that might be useful: LLL Reptile

kek19 - the only spraying done has been about 1/2 mile from here. I live way off the main road in a very rural area of MS so I really don't think they have received pesticide but thanks for mentioning it.

Sandy, thanks for the vinegar suggestion. Now that you mentioned it I do recall that it can be used to disinfect and I would rather use something natural so that advise will be heeded along with buying some small containers which just makes good sense because they are already isolated this way.
Susan, I am sorry to hear that you too are having problems, thanks for the sympathy and my prayer is that your luck will change also. My 4 sick ones are still living
and two of them are feeding again, so maybe it really is the heat. Butterflutter

A few more thoughts:

1. On the leaves you are using-are they brown or have spots of brown? If so, they have may have a fungus on them. If so, the fungus could be transmitted to the larvae. I found that the larvae fed the leaves with spots ended up with the green, runny 'diarrhea.'

2. Sterilizing-I run all of my stuff through the dishwasher.

3. Pop-up containers are another excellent way to raise the larvae as they provide for a lot of air flow. I use them when I go on vacation as I am unable to provide a lot of extra food in the smaller plastic containers. ;) I don't care for the netted containers when I am home because I can't keep them clean the way I like to clean things daily and I also like to separate my larvae into small groupings (only a few cats in a container) as it helps me to keep an eye on what is going on.

The heat has really been problematic. If you had seen the number of Monarchs that died earlier this summer, as I said, you'd have cried. I wonder if perhaps this is why the crazy group I have who have hung out (I swear, they've been in my backyard for going on six weeks!!!!! Perhaps some are new ones that have flown in but...I do wonder...) are so GLAD they survived the hot & humid (unusual) weather we had here in SoCal this summer are just basking in the pleasant weather we are now finally having. Which can be why I now am collecting so many eggs again. :)

Good luck and don't get discouraged. I don't get discouraged but remember that in nature, SO many die so what I do is WAY better no matter what. :)

You could also make your own 'breezy' containers. Make a frame out of something, wood, pvc pipe, whatever and wrap it in screen. If you don't feel like being that creative/crafty (like me) I found some picnic plate covers, they're a metel mesh. One I sewed screen around it and found a plastic bowl, drilled holes in it and sewed the bottom of the screen to the bowl. I use that (hung up, didn't add anything for support to stand it up) for my chrys. to eclose in. And the other I found another (happens to match) plastic bowl. I drilled a few small holes in the bowl, took some wierd yarn/string stuff, tied the plate cover to the bowl. There's 5 strings. And the neat thing is, all I have to do is untie the strings and toss the 2 halves in the dishwasher to disinfect.

Below is a link to a simular mesh cover. I bought mine for a buck each at a Dollar General store. And the bowls I used were "Wavy" bowls at walmart for 75 cents. The wavy bowl gave me a little lip on the edge to drill holes in.

Be creative! There's lots of stuff out there you can make cages out of. Wire Mesh trash cans, dollar stores usually carry small version. Or the mesh baskets.I find myself looking in the summer clearance stuff lateley go ooh! I could make a cat cage out of that! and that! But I don't really need anymore.... Oh, I did take 2 plastic bottoms from 2 plant pots (the things that are supposed to catch the water), It had 3 raised bumps where it originally attatched to the pot, stuck some small pvc pipe (really small) over 2 of the raised bumps, then attatched the other plastic thing face down on top of the pvc and wrapped it in some screen I had left over, w/ an opening in the front. Made a neat little 10" diamter, 12" tall cage. See, you can use anything!

Here is a link that might be useful: mesh food covers

I quit some time ago trying to keep my larva foods in water and just refresh them 1 to 2 times a day. The water adds to problems as sometimes they spill etc.

Penny

Water picks have little holes in the top just big enough to put a stem in, and if you attach them to the inside of the cage with florist's wire, they won't spill, and the water won't create any problems. Out of all the thousands of cats I've raised, I've never drowned one!
If you just lay a leaf in the cage in this heat and humidity, it will NOT stay fresh - it'll either curl up and mold will start to grow, or it'll dry up and the cats won't be able to get the proper water from the leaf.
MissSherry

Thanks for the link,sherry.I paid almost doubletheir price for a 38 gallon reptarium at Petsmart...and the zipper broke after just a month or so.

Here's an update on my "parenting" the monarchs. Of the four sick ones three are still alive as of today, Sunday morning. I heeded the advise of all of you and kinda combined it to suit my needs. I first of all took the lids off the plastic containers, cut large square holes in them and hot glued some screen wire to the inside. I made sure all the milkweed is prime, with no brown and am even wiping the leaves before I put it in the water pics just in case there is some trace of pesticide. Yeah, I'm still using the pics cause it's like MissSherry said you have to live here to know how tropical we are and the milkweed wilts immediately if it's not in something. Further, I am ordering some of the reptile cages and am going today to buy individual plastic jars for isolation purposes and will replace the lids on these with the mesh wire i purchased yesterday. I will also use these for when they are geting close to making the chrysllis. That way, I can supply the 4th grade teachers with their "butterfly" that they ask me to get them every year. And they have already asked for it as they know when school starts I usually bring them a chrysllis.
Thanks to all that has responded the my "plea". Ya'll are truly the best!!!!!!!!!!! Butterflutter

That sounds wonderful, Butterflutter!
MissSherry

I've been using 16 oz plastic cups with a coffee filter top. The filter allows air circulation and the cats make chrysalis on the paper filter. One can just leave them there or cut a little square of filter paper and attach it somewhere else.
I replace food daily and just pour out the frass. So far it has worked well

Rich

Rich, that is a GREAT idea. I think I'm gonna incorporate that for my cats, too! Thanks for sharing!!

Susan

Rich, the idea is great but what about when they emerge from the pupa do they have enough room to spread their wings and dry off properly? I know i've spend a small fortune lately on half gallon and gallon size containers cause I thought they needed a good bit of room to spread their wings. -Butterflutter-