Can I graft Wild Black Cherry unto a dwarf root-stock?

15 years ago

Hi,

Wild Black Cherry (Prunus serotina)is a primary host of several butterflies. It gets too big for most situations - enormous under the right conditions.

I would like to put it on dwarf root stock to keep it at a minimal size. Can this be done?

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Comments (4)

MissSherry
15 years ago
I don't know the particulars about grafting, only that they use scions and it has to be done when the trees are dormant, which they aren't right now.
If you ask this question on the tree forum, you'll probably get a good (and correct) answer - they've got some grafters over there. There are a lot of nice people who post on that forum, but unfortunately there are a few sarcastic, insulting know-it-alls - hopefully, you won't get an answer from one of them.
Sherry
susanlynne48
15 years ago
Boy, you said it MissSherry!

I have a Wild Black Cherry that I am just growing in a big pot. Judy and Wayne Burris grow a lot of trees in pots to keep them small and manageable. Otherwise, the trees get too large to find a lot of cats. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to climb a 50' ladder to obtain caterpillars! LOL! I may have to replace the trees I'm growing in pots in a few years, but they're not that expensive to find.

I don't know why you couldn't graft it, though. I know some people do use the smaller cherry trees and they work for them as host plants, too. I think that Maryann in Connecticut has a Kwama cherry????? or some kind of smaller growing cherry. In fact, I think most cherry trees are smaller than serotina.

Good luck. If Randy comes in here - he's our tree expert.

Susan
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I'll bet you can- but that's no guarantee. I mention from time to time my experiment grafting a prune plum to Nanking cherry (prunus tomentosa). It's entering its third year and appears to be healthy but quite dwarfed. We'll see what it does this year and next, if there is a next. Stone fruits often are compatible, but even so, there can be issues of delayed incompatibility, so you might not have your final answer for years. But I want to hazard a guess and a possible objection to your plan: it might work better to graft a more developed plant to a more primitive plant than the other way around, and it might work better to graft to a "forebear" than to a "cousin". In other words, I'm guessing that the wild host plant might work as a rootstock to more than one descendant but the reverse might not be true, and while two different fruits might graft to a common descendant they might not be cross compatible! i'm just thinking aloud on this- anybody actually know? I'd like to know. Good luck, and thanks! :-)M
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You seem to be an extremely thoughtful grower and interested in precise horticultural knowledge. Of course horticulture in not like mechanical engineering and there is never certainty when applying research to real-life situations. There are very many variables. Creating a bern for an establishing tree can be advantageous. It assures better water drainage on the raised soil, tends to stay loose and friable and warms up faster in the spring. In all but the coarsest soils it probably is a plus if the extra managment of mounds is OK and it doesn't bother you appearence-wise. Scion rooting can be a plus but many varieties and species can't easily dedifferentiate from trunk tissue to root tissue and occassionally can rot from having soil placed against non-rooting tissue as I understand it. This is difficult to evaluate in the field, and I will say that I've seen a lot of trees with soil and mulch piled against the trunks without root or rot over the years and in the forest trees mulch themselves indiscriminately, often piling rotting wet leaves agains the trunk with no apparent damage. For non-dwarfing rootstocks it is usually recommended they be planted with graft union right at ground level although I really don't know why. I just try to plant trees slightly above the level they grew at the nursery to allow for a little sinking and mulch. As far as what species and varieties are capable of rooting from trunk tissue you probably can only find out from your own experimentation (unless you get lucky here). I believe that the tendoncy of apples to root this way is highly exaggerated and only a small percentage of varieties planted below the graft union on dwarfing root-stock are apt to start scion rooting and become excessively vigorous. Harold Tukey, the late dwarf-fruit tree specialist, wrote in his classic "Dwarf Fruit Trees" in 1964, that most varieties grown at that time were incapable of easily rooting from buried scion wood. He also said that it used to be a common practice to purposely deeply bury cold-tender rootstocks like quince (used for pear dwarfing) to prevent them from freezing in harsh climates. The pears generally failed to root out above the buried graft union and the rootstock maintained its dwarfing affect. I would be interested in others to speak of hands-on experience with scion-rooting. Burrying the scion-wood is almost universally warned against when using dwarfing rootstock, but I wonder if it isn't 90% agri-legend.
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rjj1
15 years ago
I'm not sure you will get the results you want.

The scion will still grow at it's normal growth rate and the rootstock will still grow at it's normal growth rate. The result will not be pleasing to the eye.

Rootstock is usually chosen for vigorous growth, ability to deal with drought, virus tolerance, and other things.

Good pruning techniques is the solution to your problem in my opinion. I have a Japanese Black Pine in the ground that is only about 4 foot tall. A seedling from the same batch at my parents house is 12 feet tall.

randy
katob Z6ish, NE Pa
15 years ago
LOL MissSherry, I like browsing that tree forum and I think there were a few times I had to stop and admire your restraint when you ran into that sarcasm!

I added a link for some cherry rootstock, but you would need to talk to someone much smarter than me in order to find something that works on anything other than commercial cherry varieties.

Do you think trimming the trees down to the ground each year would work? There would be tons of fresh new growth each year to support cats and it would keep the tree to a manageable size as well. Plus the trimmed stems make great garden stakes! Try googling the word coppice or pollarding for more info.... it's alot easier than grafting, plus the tree puts on enough growth to feed an army (of army worms?).... which would not be the case if the tree were dwarfed by grafting, which slows down the growth.

Here is a link that might be useful: cherry rootstock

Can I graft Wild Black Cherry unto a dwarf root-stock?

Comments (4)

MissSherry

susanlynne48

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rjj1

katob Z6ish, NE Pa

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