Moisture retention soil doesn't prevent soil from warming, but it sure does retain a lot of moisture after a thaw. I normally use MG potting mix (regular), but last year I waited too late and ended up having to buy another brand that had a moisture retentive agent. I still got good germination but for seedlings I had to do a lot of covering during rains because too much of a good thing isn't always good :D
You don't need to remove snow. It'll all work out on Ma Natures time.
Pretty soon you will want want to change your gardenweb name since you'll be a winter sow pro in no time flat :O

Vera

Thank you, Vera.

It just so happens I bought a few "Plankets" I saw advertised for overwintering container plants. Being new at gardening in general and WS in particular I've got more of everything than I can use in one year so I already have the Plankets to cover seedlings once things thaw and rains threaten.

Since I don't actually have to plant seeds yet I might just get regular potting soil and save moisture retentive stuff for another use. Got to go for some other gardening supplies tomorrow anyway so I'll pick up some regular potting soil.

After rereading about your experience I quickly reconsidered.

The thought of needing to be there to run in and out for months every time rain threatens or clears might be more than I can stand...LOL.

Thanks again.

Well...I didn't run out EVERY time rain threatened as long as there was some lapse in occurrance it was okie dokie LOL! The moisture retention did come in handy for those I kept in containers longer than expected :D

Vera

LOL...Vera...after buying way too many bulbs, trying a Butterfly Garden for my first foray into perennials this WS is just another thing I'm afraid I'll go at with way too much intensity! Gotta get what seems to be the pace and point of this whole thing...chill out, try new things and enjoy what pops up!

I've got people saving milk jugs for me but everyone left the room when I tried to explain how to make the containers.

I used that moisture retentive potting soil for some of the spring bulbs in containers. Now I'm worrying they'll have those "wet feet" I keep reading about that makes them rot.

Made the mistake of checking out the Soil Forum and was smacked in the face with page long analysis of different soil "blends"...too much for me at this point...LOL.

Newbie: One thing I noticed in your posts: you said you would use potting 'soil' whereas Vera said she used MG Potting Mix. Mixes are not 'soil' - they are really 'soilless seed starting mixes' specifically formulated to grow seeds - retain moisture, drain wel, etc., and are also sterile. You may want to be sure that's what you purchase - many brands are available at all gardening centres and Wal-Mart. Just a little clarification from a still nearly-newbie.
Northerner.

Northerner...just read your post and seeing as it's a little past 1AM I'm counting the hours until I can get out to the shed to check my bags of Miracle Gro and see what the bags say! I'm bereft of knowledge with nomenclature of "dirt" but am learning fast...usually when I think I've got things covered and someone points out what may be a flaw in my master plan...LOL.

Sorry for the "flowery" language...I'm a little punchy right now.

After a full three days of turning over packed soil down to 18", chopping out grass & roots, amending and planting "1 gal. starter plants" what was supposed to be a 10'x10'x9' Butterfly Garden ended up being more like 20'x20'x15'...as we can all see my powers of estimation are not to be overestimated! Although it did stand me in good stead since I bought way too much fencing to keep out the deer, rabbits, groundhogs and everyone else who will want to eat my garden down to nubs in the spring...LOL.

My poor little size 9 tootsies were numb by 5PM when I finished since it was a very cloudy, windy 43 degrees here at midday but it had to be done. Finish bulbs this weekend and then get ready for Thanksgiving. Thank goodness so many posters on this forum have said it's fine to wait til Dec. and beyond to WS! Gotta plan on more "body insulation" for really cold months.

I decided to use the moisture retentive potting "mix" or whatever it is for all the bulb containers I have to finish this weekend. A few local nursery people told me not to worry about bulbs getting "wet feet" from moisture retentive property so I'll use it up for that. They were also the ones who told me they used it for their "container plants" which is another thing I might have needed to clarify but that's water over my dam or under my bridge by now.

You're absolutely RIGHT...the distinction between Potting "Soil" and "Mix" didn't even register in my mind.

Since I'm heading out tomorrow, finally, to grab the bags of my WS "planting medium" I now know I have to look for potting MIX and not SOIL. I had no idea everyone was using "soilless seed starting mixes" that are sterile. I thought I was just going to use very high class DIRT...LOL.

Thank you big time for pointing out the distinction.

Still haven't ordered any seeds yet. Checked out the Park Seed sale and they're out of anything I might have wanted. Haven't looked in Lowe's or Home Depot yet for seeds and didn't even know they carried them since haven't been frequent visitor to their gardening centers until this year. Everything in both stores has been "cast out" to make room for all the holiday things.

Some in the forum have mentioned SwallowTail & HardyPlants as to dependable sources and more I can't remember. I have to maintain some degree of decorum in ordering seeds so I don't end up with way too many plants and nowhere to put them. Then again, after reading one winter sower's experience with losing all her little ones the first year I shouldn't be so cavalier as to think that will be a problem!

Planning on WSing natives as much as possible to fill out Butterfly Garden but not being a purist at this early stage I'll go with non-natives if I need to. Want to duplicate few of gallon size plants I already put in for greatest effect in terms of "masses of color" since butterflies apparently can't see individual plants too well. Between the soil, sun, height, spread and now the visual acuity of butterflies is just another little detail but I just couldn't wait to start the garden! Also want to WS things for spring and summer containers since most of ground here is rootbound and can't penetrate it even when jumping on spade. Had to use an ax to break up small areas I eked out for couple "land based" projects I've done.

Thanks again for the info...much appreciated.

Before I go to get my potting MIX tomorrow morning there's a clearance on all leftover perennials & ferns at a local
nursery that I've got to stop at just to see if there's something ready to plunk into that Butterfly Garden now. If they work fine...if not there's always my WS babies to count on if I play all my instructional cards right. I keep reading the FAQs over and over and didn't even notice the soil versus mix thing.

I've got leaves spread out all over the yard drying out from recent rains so I can fill the fenced in Butterfly Garden to 6-8" which is what nursery from which I bought gallon plants suggested.

Thanks again.

Just went out to the shed to check the bags. I thought I had purchased all Miracle Gro products for containers and gardens but that is NOT the case. The bags I have for container planting bulbs that I considered for WS are actually Premier Pro-Mix. Read the bag and checked web site of Premier Horticulture. Doesn't say it's "sterile" but it IS a "soilless" mix of sphagnum peat moss, vermiculite, moisture retentive polymer, slow release fertilizer & lime. Web site says it's a product designed for containers, potting & seed germination.

Northerner...would it actually SAY "sterile" on bag and/or web site if it is sterile? Unless they heat that moss up someway it wouldn't be sterile to my mind.

Maybe by "sterile" you mean free of weed and other nasty seeds within the mix? Thought they needed heat, as it performs function in composting to kill off latent seeds in pile, to keep little invaders from germinating.

All I know is I am NOT putting anything by the baggie full into the microwave as I saw suggested over on the Soil Forum...LOL.

The sterile thing is more of a concern when growing seeds indoors. Nasty things like fungus can thrive there and cause dampoff, killing seedlings. This really isn't a concern outdoors since the sunshine and fresh air suppress them.

For indoor seed starting sterile containers are recommended too, but again, not really a concern outdoors. I only rinse my milk jugs in clear water and it works just fine.

Pro-Mix is good stuff, it's what I use most. I've never used the moisture retaining one, though, because like Vera, we can get too much rain in spring. Then the excess moisture could be a problem. I just stick to the regular Pro-Mix. I buy it in big compressed bales. It is difficult to moisten initially, but it works well and drains well in wet weather. I think it drains better than the Miracle Grow, but most folks here seem to prefer the Miracle Grow.

Welcome to the forum.

Karen

Thanks, Karen. Got so rapturous with laundry & ironing didn't have chance to go get WS mix but will get out tomorrow to get the Pro-Mix w/o moisture retention beads. People at my favorite nursery swear by that and Bumper Crop compost. I know I should start composting myself but I've got to stay focused and get other projects completed before I start flit off to another one for this season.

How the heck do you get bales of the stuff out of the car or trunk? The 20LB bags are most I can handle without breaking them and having soil or compost all over myself and the car! The only bales I could handle were the milled sphagnum peat moss. It's actually easier to pile them in the back seat and then slide them onto the wheelbarrow than trying to lift them up and out of the trunk.

Whoa is me...when I whine I think of people who wish they could even get up to garden and remind myself how lucky I am. I'm sure there will be many more moments of whining when it's 20 degrees outside and I'm putting seeds into containers out in the unheated garage...LOL.

No need to whine, Newbie. Just bring your potting mix in the kitchen, and fill your containers there. DH has put in some new lighting in the garage, and there IS a sink out there, so maybe I'll be out there more this year, but last year I preferred the kitchen because it had better lighting... and it was warmer too!

Bonnie

I try to get my husband to come along to Home Depot and haul the bag home for me :-) But I can lift it myself if I have to. If you get the compressed one the overall size is smaller than loose potting mix would be, but it is pretty heavy.

Any good potting mix is OK, and most folks do seem to prefer the Miracle Grow. You can buy smaller bags of it to make it easier to lift/haul home, it just costs more to do it that way.

Karen

If I could do it in the kitchen that would be a huge plus
but since no one here even wants to know what I'm doing with all the supplies I've got strategically hidden for other garden projects it would cause a virtual riot if I showed up in the kitchen with any of it. I've started my gardening forays at my father's since I'm here most of the time. I've got to get all the bulbs and their supplies out of the garage today so it's not in anyone's face to rail about the "clutter." My sister is saving containers at her house so they're not in the way until I can hide them out in the shed where no one looks during most of the winter. I'm very lucky I've been given the go ahead to do some gardening just because I enjoy it. I count that as a big relaxation plus. I don't think about anything else while I'm outside even if it's just to do the raking.

Every time I go to Home Depot or Lowe's I try to get the more economical large bags. They don't move off the pile no matter how I try so I bit the bullet and take the smaller, more expensive bags. If I had my druthers I'd have been willing to do all this shopping in one big order and have it delivered but that would have been way too obvious and upsetting to the "owner"...LOL. God bless him, he let me dig up a bunch of his beloved irises, divide them and replant wherever I could hack out tree and shrub roots in the few sunny locations around here. He didn't see the need since they've been blooming on side babies for 30 years and he was happy with that. Some of those rhizome clusters were over a foot and a half wide! Transplants better bloom next year or my name is mud.

Thanks for the encouragement & tips...now I've just got to settle on the seeds I want to order and get an order in very soon cause sources are already selling out on some nice choices.

Hi newbie, you remind me of me when I first started 4 yrs ago, things can seem a bit overwhelming at first, its ok! Keep posting your questions, reread the facts as needed and you will succeed!
I have been using regular miracle grow potting soil for 4 yrs with wonderful results, I usually buy the 2 liter bags and go through about 3 or 4 of them and what I dont use wintersowing I use for potting up.
What seeds are you looking for?
Wendey

Hi:

I just wanted to add an encouraging note to say that almost any soil in your containers will work well. I do understand worrying about the moisture retentive stuff if your springs are really wet. Be sure your drainage holes are on the SIDE of the container, too. Also, I didn't believe that the holes needed to be huge, but they do. Try a practice container (like I should have done first) and you'll see you need 1/4 inch holes for it to drain well. It's easier to make the holes when the jug or bottle isn't all cut up!

For my containers last year, I used a mix of my own sandy garden soil and some purchased soil. Most containers were good, but some of what I used was some very cheap and dense Wal-Mart soil (similar to Hyponex brand) and didn't have any more sandy stuff to mix with it, so I just added perlite. Those containers had germination or stunting problems, so I would avoid the very cheap, dense soils. Otherwise, buy what you can get, and you can do some mixing of the different stuff.

I hope you'll be ok out in the garage! Buy a safe space heater for your use, ok? And if you have a little electric heating pad (do they still sell those?) for sore backs, you could have that on the table right where you're working, and that will send heat up into your hands.