Can I have one suggestion, Maria?
I speak of experience. When I planted the bulbs with the dry roots on, the ones that can easily break down if you bend them, all those roots have stayed under the bulb and just rotted, not growing into nice white roots. I have experienced that these roots even inhibit new root formation, so before I plant a bulb now, I always break off all the dried off roots, since I condsider them dead anyay.
What is your opinion about this? These dry roots will soak up the water, but I don't believe that they become real roots for the bulb anymore.

Maybe you know the answer, or there is someone else who can tell me. But I would break off the bone dry roots. Since I am doing this, my bulbs grow new roots easier and develop faster. Before, I found bulbs that bloomed, then simply died back because they could not develop new roots because of the dead plant material under the bulb (I assume.) blocking the access to real nutriens. So? Is there any sense in what I am saying?

I'm about to take my bulb out of the fridge. Should I soak the roots before replanting, Maria? I also want to know what your opinions are re soultan's question above.
Thanks.

Xuan

Soultan et al--

Looking at Maria's photos, it seems to me that she did in fact rid the bulb of the useless dried up (good-for-nothing) roots. The fuller one's appear to remain just based on the amount of roots in the before and after shot.

Rotting anything will stop healthy growth of a plant. Too many bad chemicals and gases as a result of decomposition sterilize soil while the bacteria are doing their jobs. I have found that when planting a lime seed (I love citrus) in regular potting soil with little to no additives (perlite etc) compared to soils that have a lot of oxygen-inducing additives, the one's that have the more compact soil (soil that is arguably decomposing without ventillation) perform poorly. The lime trees in the perlite mixture with about half soil, half perlite, are easily 4 times larger. I attribute this directly to the roots having plenty of water and oxygen at their disposal and the ability for the soil to vent decomposition chemicals and gases.

Speaking of gases...I'm getting long winded with this post.

Soultan...You are right there. Fresh new basal roots is the best for the bulbs. I used to do your method too before I tried this and got better results. Some of those dried roots that we break off can still be useful to the bulb.

At this stage of a dry stored bulb, the bulb will need all the roots that can be saved. It used to have a LOT of roots, now it only has a few (maybe just 5% or even lesser of what it used to have)

Once taken out of dormancy, the bulb would concentrate in putting out the scape. Where does the bulb get this energy? Mostly from the stored food in the bulb scales. With not enough roots to feed the bulb, the scapes use up that stored food in the scales resulting in bulb shrinkage. Once this happens, the bulb becomes weak, takes a longer time to produce new roots and becomes suceptible to rot. So it's important to take care of the roots first before wishing for the scape to come out.

My reason for doing this method makes me decide which roots to cut or not and get to save some.

Roots that did not suck water and stayed wrinkled should be cut...they are dead.

Roots that did suck water but has a break or wrinkled part along the length of the root should be cut in that break. The lower part of that root will have no way to send back the fluids to the bulbs because of that break and will just rot. The saved upper part of the root will grow secondary roots (ones that grow from the side of the primary root).

Roots that did suck but the part where it connects to the basal plate is wrinkled should be cut at that connection. Again, this will be of no use to the bulb and will just rot.

I would at this stage peel out ugly skins that shows signs of possible former desease (red markings). All of the brown red skin of the above pictured bulb (a bad bulb)was peeled up to the nice green scales.

After doing this, I would dust the whole basal plate, side where the outer scales/skin connects to the basal plate, cut part of the root (wound) with cinnamon or powdered sulphur.

You will be amazed of how much of those roots will be thrown away and still save some that you could have taken out. For me doing the above steps gives my bulbs a nice clean start saving me time, effort and agony in the long run.

Goshhhh...that was a long one. Did you guys understand me?

Yep, I do Maria. Will see what roots will be left for me.
Thanks.

Xuan

I should really try this. The only problem is that the potting soil would then stick to everything wet and I'd make a huge mess in my room. :o) I will have to figure out how to do it safely and effectively. I like the idea of giving the bulbs this head start. I know from experience that bulbs with healthy roots attached do really perform better and don't lose their size. On the contrary. I love to see them fatten up in the flower bed later... You see, people should not put on too much weight above average, but I like to see my bulbs fat and flabby. :o)

Hello Mariava, Soultan et al....

I've read about this process from Veronica's book and have not tried it myself. I've always done what you've done Soultan and that is, before planting, to break off all the shriveled roots and cut back any other dead roots to live (plump) roots and then plant. Once planted I of course give the bulbs a thorough watering but then don't apply any more water until the top 1/2 to 1" dries out. I've had fairly good results with this. I don't doubt that presoaking the roots has it's merits in "kick starting" the bulbs but as was mentioned, not taking all the dead roots off before planting only contributes to rotting tissue and a threat to the bulbs overall health. Given all of this, it helps to have a bulb with lots of plump roots to begin with and anytime I'm planting a bulb without roots, I'm always concerned that it won't do well and that once it does grow, to encourage and keep whatever roots do grow.

Loud and clear, Maria! Thank you, everyone, for sharing these wonderfully useful pieces of information! I now know exactly how to plant my bulbs for optimum health and growth. I need to stock up on cinnamon, and according to Ryan's information, perlite, as well!

I've never used that method when planting my bulbs, although, it all makes perfect sense. Since I have new bulbs arriving soon, and I do want them to be healthy and grow properly, I will definitely be soaking some roots before potting them up! And, I'll be amending the soil with plenty of perlite to keep everything breathing properly below soil level!

Speaking of healthy bulbs... yesterday, I noticed some tiny pinkish-red spots on my Amalfi as I was peeling away a dead layer of skin... I immediately dusted with cinnamon, and proceeded to lightly dust the bulbs in neighboring pots... how common is this red fungus? Will a dusting with cinnamon do the trick, do you think?

Jodic...This "red fungus" as you call it is very common with hippeastrums. Stagnospora and Fusarium is it's #1 killer. That is why Sir Hans has always recommended bottom watering to prevent the bulb getting too wet. I bottom water all my planted newly purchased bulbs.
About the cinnamon, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

Ryan...I agree there with you. I always use cocopeat mixed with some vermiculite and perlite in potting up my newly purchased bulbs. No kind of compost or material that will decompose later on is used in the potting mix. The bulbs seem to root better and faster. Once they have rooted good, then I repot using a mix with some compost.

Once again... I thank you, Maria, for sharing all this really good information! It makes perfect sense that cocopeat and vermiculite or perlite would be a better starter mix to promote good root growth. Where might I find cocopeat to purchase? Is it expensive?

My husband says that it's kind of like hydroponics, or growing with crushed pecan shells or something similar... the medium used only absorbs and releases moisture, and does not break down or decompose, making it a lot healthier for the plants or bulbs. And that any fertilizer or PH change can be adjusted when you water...

Since I have no experience with orchids or anything close, I'm not very familiar with cocopeat. Where do I find some? I need to re-pot some bulbs! I had a funny feeling that this wasn't just as easy as planting the bulbs and watching them grow!

Jodic...Please don't make me scare or discourage you. The hippeastrums just need extra care during this stage. They have been spoiled all their life. Being grown in greenhouses or fields with almost perfect condition. Then for us to enjoy them in our homes, they have to sacrifice all of these including their roots which is their lifeline. Being particular about how we handle them at this stage helps them a lot in their recovery.

If you search the net, there are companies that sell them in in different forms. Worm's Way has it I just don't know about the quality of their coco peat. They have very good selection of hydropinics products too. I get mine from the PI which my mom brings in and they are packed in huge blocks. I just get a little bit at a time from that block. I don't soak the whole block. I only use them on young seperated seedlings, newly planted bulbs and Papilio.

Jodik,

I am not an expert on the Red Bloch, but tiny red spots are almost always present on bulbs. These can be due to damages that the bulb got during any life stage... I did not worry about the small, tiny spots. I would worry if they grew bigger. Sometimes, when the bulb gets dropped a whole side gets red, but then you know it is from getting dropped. Bulbs seem to redden up from environmental effects.
I am not saying that you don't have Red Blotch, but I wouldn't be so sure that you have it either. If my red spotted bulbs were sick, my whole collection would have died several times from it already, and I don't have one single sick bulb that would die up to this day from Red Blotch. Even when a little insect bites your bulb, a red spot can appear... Look at pictures of Red Blotch on the net and compare. Scientific name: Stagonospora Curtisii.

(huge sigh of relief) Me? Panic? Whatever would give you guys that idea?! :-)

I am glad that both of you, Maria and Soultan, have eased my mind with your answers... the tiny red rash is probably nothing... I notice that most of my bulbs have a little red edge or pinkish-red irregular spot here or there, as from slight injury... I've got them lightly dusted with cinnamon, just in case. I also keep a 3-in-one spray handy... fungicide, insecticide and I forget the third thing it does, but it works good... I need to get a good fungicidal drench, though...

As for the coco coir/peat... the 3 bulbs I recently got had coir disks in the boxes, but I opted to use my mix of potting soil to plant them. So... I think I will use those disks for the babies and my Papillio. They should expand enough with water to be plenty for use with the babies I have, and the one Papillio.

I will do the research necessary, so I am familiar with the symptoms of Red Blotch... that way, I'll know if I'm having a problem in the future.

I'm not the least bit discouraged... I could never give up my beautiful bulbs! I can see, though, that I need to learn more about the technicalities of growing them, such as the potential diseases and the different methods of planting them... Having only Minerva and my Apple Blossom before, I think I was just lucky that they never experienced anything bad... but now that I have more, and there will be even more shortly, the risk of having a problem multiplies... I need to be ready, just in case!

Thanks, you guys! :-)

Someone told me once as a response to my pessimism: you are the most optimistic person on Earth. You are always prepared for the worse, which means you can only be disappointed positively. You, my friend, are fishing for positive disappointments, and what is that if not optimism. :o)
So be prepared for the worse, and if it never hits you, there is no harm done. :o)

"Expect the worst, and you'll never be disappointed"... our family mantra!

If I prepare myself for what could happen, I'll be ready if it ever does happen. Knowledge breeds success!

That is true, though there is a Hungarian saying: Fortune works for the fool.

I've heard it as: "fortune favors the fool"... same thing. :-)

That is the same thing... I just translated it, because I could not remember the right saying, but yes. Exactly: Fortune favors the fool. :o)

I'm a big fan of short sayings, especially if they ring true... I used to have a small set of books, given to me by my Mother, that were filled with short sayings and poems and little bits of advice on life... they were called "Apples of Gold" and "Silver Arrows". I think that's what the second book was called, anyway. They were the sort of small book that you'd reach for when you needed a little inspiration, or a little pick-me-up... not prayer books, but definitely good for the soul. :-)

I am a quite well read person. And I am blessed that I can remember to catchy phrases from these writing most of the time. The only problem is that I did most of my reading in Hungarian, so these sayings are in my head in Hungarian, and I either cannot find them in English, or they are not catchy in this language or I lose myself in translation.
I am full of Hungarian Shakespeare quotes. But I just discovered that most of these wonderful quotes are simply non existent in the originals. They dramas were translated from the end of 1800s, so they have newer dialects in Hungarian, and the new translatings that are just coming out are even more updated with catchy phrases and quotes...
I was really surprised when I discovered that half of my favorite quotes are NOTHING in English, so that is why my English speaking friends have no idea what I am talking about.

There are a lot of things that don't translate well from many other languages into English. English is a very complicated and strange language, and there are many different ways to say the same thing... and then there is all the slang... I have heard that this is one of the most difficult languages to learn to speak and write.

I learned a bit of Spanish in school, and I found it incredibly easy... there are no surprises. Each letter has only one sound... even if I don't know the meaning of a Spanish word, I can still pronounce it or read it correctly. Of course, they only teach formal Spanish in school, and not the relaxed version you would really speak.

My husband used to speak Bohemian, and even though he has forgotten most of it, he still understands that and all the Czech dialects/languages, and even Russian, enough to know what is being talked about.

Perhaps it's not so much the translation from Hungarian, as it is the fact that a lot of people are just not well-read.

When I read the ORIGINAL Shakespeare plays, I don't find the quotes there. The Hungarian translators, wisely, translated meaning instead of sentences and words, and this gives new life to a piece of literature. So a lot of the new quotes I learned in my life are non-existent in English. Sometimes I pity people who are forced to speak Shakespeare's language because that is their native tongue. They will never experience a Shakespeare play in a modern translating. No wonder that Europe loves Shakespeare and I myself watched a Shakespeare play now that I was at home... Here, in the USA for instance, they rarely put his plays on stage, because it is hard to understand. It is entirely a different language, so battling with the language leaves very little room for you to enjoy the meaning and the bigger picture.

Hey Maria, this is a great technique. I will have to try jump starting my new bulbs in this fashion. Thanks for sharing your wisdom, my friend!

I agree, Soultan, that some of the language is difficult to grasp... I have never been to a Shakespeare production... although, I think it would be very interesting.

Cindee?! Are you back?! What's happening? How was the trip, if you're back!?!

Maria - I got my hands on a bottle of Superthrive, and I intend to use it when ever required! It's supposed to be awesome stuff!

Cindeea...Welcome back and your very welcome.

Jodik...Yes it is good stuff. We have used that in our propagations in the nusery in the PI and it does help a lot. And all you need is a few drops. Remember that you cannot store that when already mixed with water. I think it will only be effective for like 48 hours. So what I do is I store fertilized (not fish emulsion)water in milk gallons. Pour some of this in my watering can and then add like 3-5 drops of Superthrive in it before I bottom water the newly planted bulbs.

Excellent information, Maria... I shall do that very thing! Right now, I'm pulling two empty milk gallons back out of my garbage can! I'll clean them and use them to store fertilized water... then I'll do as you suggest.

When I first pot up anything, I always top-water it in to get rid of air pockets... from then on, I bottom water. I'm sure others do it differently for good reasons, but I like to make sure there are no large pockets of air under the soil.

Maria, can I copy your pictures to the Hungarian forum to amaze them with your technique? They have asked me about this method of sitting the bulbs' roots in warm water, and your pictures are worth thousands of words.

OMG Soultan...By all means do so. And tell them to come join us here too. Do they get a lot of hippeastrum varieties there too?

By the way, take a look at the first pic. See the attached damaged bulblet? After peeling off all those yucky reddish brown skin from the bulb, I cut that bulblet out to prevent the mother bulb getting rot from it if ever. This would also help the mother bulb to recover faster with the roots concentrated in supporting only the main bulb. I used a sharp blade and detached it from the bulb including a tiny piece of basal plate from the mommy, dusted both wounds with sulphur and planted it. Here it is now...

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Maria... why did you have to remove it from its mother? I must have missed something... was there a problem with the mother?

Jodic...It has a rot. Look in the first pic nd you can see that the bulblet has this black/red mark on its side. If the rot can't be cured, the whole bulblet rots and infection could possibly transfer to mommy.

It woke up very nicely. Interestingly enough, bulblets without roots, usually start very slow and log behind their siblings remaining on mother.

You are right there Soultan. Remember I did this to help out the mommy recover faster. Some of them (mother bulbs) would sacrifice themselves and feed the babies first before themselves resulting in the bulblets putting out new growth/leaves ahead of the mother bulb. Then the poor FORCED (that is the best word to describe these bulbs) bulb would also need to put that energy in putting out the scape. With so many things to support besides itself, the mother bulb really has nothing much left. That is why it's important to take care of the roots first.

And if you can buy your bulbs firsthand, choose the ones with the most healthy white roots rather than the size of the bulb, scapes already coming out or number of bulblets attached to it. All of the above can be easily achieved with a well rooted healthy bulb later on.

I forgot to mention that I dusted the cut part of the bulblet with a rooting powder too. That could have helped.

Oh, I see now... I didn't really notice the bad spot in the first picture before. That little baby is growing fast!

Speaking of growing fast... what do you do with your Mandevilla vines for winter, Maria? Do you cut them back at all? Can they be cut back safely? When is the best time to trim them back? I'd like to trim the main vine on mine to make it a bit shorter, and to make it branch out more, but I'm not sure about when or how or what the best way to go about it is... what do you do with yours? They're so beautiful...

It is a healthy looking bulblet though. I am having problem starting small bulblets. They seem to develop very slowly. It seems like my mature bulbs love the area and they fatten up nicely, but small bulbs just slow to develop. Or might I get a surprise when I unearth them later, to find out they have bulb under the soil?

Or perhaps they're putting more energy into forming a good root structure...

A baby should fatten. :o)

Hehe! Bulbs with baby fat! :-)

Babies should fatten faster... Sometimes, nature is amazing. Why to wait two-three-four years for a bloom?

Somewhere in California, at some Arboretum or greenhouse, there is a plant that only blooms every 100 years... I remember seeing it on the News not too long ago... there were people lined up to see this thing bloom! I have no idea what the name of the plant is... "century plant" doesn't sound right... but, can you imagine... waiting 100 years to see a bloom and to pollinate a flower?! That's called patience! It makes a few years seem like nothing!

And that plant smells like rotting carcas. I saw it in the news too. They could not even pollinate it, since there was only one of it in the whole arboretum. :o)

What about self pollination? Did they mention if that was possible?

Hehe. I really did not care about the pollination of that plant, so I don't know. I don't even know if they even wanted to pollinate it or not. Maybe they had stored pollen from another plant and they also saved some from this one. Who knows.

I'm not that interested either... I just thought it was a very strange plant, only blooming once in a hundred years... it makes the time we wait to see our Hippis bloom seem rather short in comparison! It's definitely a lesson in patience!

Oh yes... Did you see a picture of that plant though. It was extremely interesting.
It also has a very interesting name: Amorphophallus Titanium

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It IS very interesting looking! The name says it all... how very "phallic"! LOL! But if it smells as bad as they say it does, who would want it around?! Gross!

Yes... "interesting" is about the only word to describe that plant!

Don't forget, it is almost as tall as a person! Or even taller? It is one huge flower. The world's largest individual flower if I am not mistaken. Once in every 100 years, you can bear the smell.

It's a fine example of Mother Nature's mysteries... every plant and animal and insect, and even bacteria, plays an important role in the cycle of life...

Bump for MyManga in New York asking about the Maria Soak. =)

Yes Pax,

This is the thread I was referring to.