Please give me your opinion/advice on achieving my goal.

6 years ago

Hi all! I'd like to take this time to share my dream with you and get your feedback. I have not been growing hippeastrum for very long, but I research different aspects about them every day. They are constantly on my mind and I love learning all I can.

When I first seriously became interested in this hobby, two hippeastrum enchanted and captured my imagination. H. Spotty and as I am sure like so many others, I fell for H. pardinum.

One will most likely never become available again and the other if it were ever available will never be in a price range I can afford so my dream is to get as close as I can to something similar.

My plan is to begin with crosses using Exotic Star, Naomi (Maguire), Sonatini #130, Sonatini #1623, and Rio Negro. I thought maybe the species genes in Exotic Star and Rio Negro might be helpful. Of course I have no idea if these will be compatible and a cross successful. I also have no idea if the genes for spots will be found at the same places genetically... so who knows if spots x spots would even = spots if they aren't in the right places.

I have also considered using Flamenco Queen, Spotlight, Ada's Flower (Maguire), Temptation, Pencilled Peppi (Maguire), and Giraffe, but I feel Flamenco Queen may be too saturated in color and not the right shape.

I will try as many of these crosses as possible. The long term goal would be to then attempt F2 crosses and primary crosses of the seedlings with the other crosses in this spotted project,

The "Holy Grail" would be to use pardinum pollen at some point, but I am sure that's not going to be possible.

I understand this project will take at least 10 years to get something worthwhile even if it is possible to get what I want with the genes available in these cultivars. I don't see myself falling out of interest with Hippeastrum, so this is something I accept.

You all are far more knowledgeable than am I. Can I achieve something like H. Spotty or H. pardinum? Do you suggest adding a different cultivar or omitting some?

Hope I didn't bore you!

~Joey

Featured Answer

mariava7

6 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

Joey if you have the space...pollinate away and see what you get blessed with. The first step is to get viable seeds. Nothing is right or wrong with breeding. Nature will guide you. If something fails or succeed, it was meant to be.

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Comments (27)

jstropic (10a)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Hi Joey,

I think you are heading in the right direction. By that I mean having as your goal, the flower that you want to create/develope. I am not aware of any hippeastrum cultivars that are as spotted as pardinum or its progeny, spotty. So I am hoping for your success. As you know one of the reasons that pardinum is not readily available is that it has been rumored that all available clones are virused. Hopefully somebody has that elusive bulb somewhere that is virus free. Or hopefully you can develop a spotted hippeastrum that looks like pardinum and is virus resistant!

That being said, Spotlight is one of my favorites. And an exotic star x spotlight cross does sound interesting with the potential of a lot of different progeny to choose from. Good luck and I'll be following your posts! Jody
lokai99 thanked jstropic (10a)
haweha
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
You might try to pollinate "Exotic Star" (DIP) from "Flamenco Queen" (TET) - both are densely spotted. The question is, how many viable seed, if any, you might obtain. I would also try the reciprocal crosspollination - one never knows. IF Flamenco Queen "takes" then you might end with 50 viable but triploid seeds per seed pod.
lokai99 thanked haweha
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mariava7
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I would avoid the red spotted ones as they are dominant. Cross "like with like" if you are aiming for a particular characteristic. From flowers that I have seen with my own eyes, I would use these hybrids for parents for your aimed project. Exotic Star, Rio Negro, Glasswork (Komoriya). From your resulting F1s, self or cross with each other seedlings that have the traits you are looking or aiming for.
lokai99 thanked mariava7
mariava7
6 years ago
Komoriya's Stained Glass might work also.
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lokai99
Original Author
6 years ago
Oooh Glasswork is perfection! I must get it along with Garasu Zaiku and Stained Glass has a beautiful shape!
lokai99
Original Author
6 years ago
Maria would you advise against the two Sonatini mentioned?
jstropic (10a)
6 years ago
Maria, when you say the red spotted ones are dominant, what do you mean? When you bred with red spotted what did the flowers look like? Do you know if Pardinum was used in their breeding program. I know you spoke with a lot of the breeders so you would be a go-to person for this information.

Lokai, these are Komoriya hybrids, not sonatini. You can check eBay for availability.

Maria did a lot of subsidizing with a lot of different cultivars so you have a great opportunity to jump ahead in your program by using her experience. Hans has extensive experience re ploidy and passing on of genetics traits, so you have two of the best people here to help you. Jody
lokai99 thanked jstropic (10a)
lokai99
Original Author
6 years ago
Here is what I have this year to try:

Bulbs (possible pod parents) = Naomi (Maguire) , Exotic Star, Temptation, Flamenco Queen

Pollen I have = 1623(from a forum friend), Exotic Star and whichever potential pod parents blooms and Rio Negro I might get from a forum friend.

I have ordered Sonatini #130 and have 3 coming in April. #1623 was not available this year.

I might have Spotlight if it is not a Mislabel, but I will definitely add more Spotlight to the to get list for next season's purchases.

I will also be on the lookout for Garasu Zaiku and Glasswork (especially Glasswork) from Komoriya. If anyone on the forum should have either of these bloom, I would be happy to purchase pollen or share seeds of any successful pollinations using your pollen.

Thank you all for your input, you're giving me even more things to consider! I am eager to learn from others who know far more than I.

~ Joey
Fred Biasella
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Hi Joey,

Good luck on your project. May you have an over abundance of seeds :-))) Keep us informed, it would be wonderful to see what you come up with. Last winter I was a little too ambitious and all I got was squat :-((( Let's see what this year brings.

Fred
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Fred Biasella
6 years ago
Maria,

What a wonderful and natural way to describe it :-))))

Fred
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haweha
6 years ago
"Garasu Zaiku" and "Glasswork" do they produce 4 florets per scape?

This would be a serious question for me, before I even consider using them for breeding!
mariava7
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Like most Komoriya hybrids...Garasu Zaiku/Glasswork and Stained Glass only has 2 flowers per scape...unfortunately. The ones that I have bloomed anyway.
haweha
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Hello Maria, thank you for providing your testimony. I think (in other words my subjective personal opinion is) that a MODERN hybrid should be "4 corner" (=the, afaik, Danish, popular Name for Hippeastrums, indicating "4 florets per scape") if not even better. HAD anyone crossbred H.pardinum (DIP, I guess) with "Striped Panther" (DIP, I KNOW, which hybrid is good for upto 8 florets per scape) then we would already have such...
dondeldux z6b South Shore Massachusetts
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Joey, I was just admiring some picture on the internet of Spotlight and the pictures I was looking at were very highly speckled but the flower itself was not over saturated with color. I think that if you could pair Exotic Star with Spot Light that you could end up with something very lovely that would not be saturated with too much color that might drown out the speckles!!! Of course trying Exotic Star with Flamenco Queen should be on your list too but I would go for the lighter speckled flower to pair with Exotic Star. Just a thought.....still thinking....and of course a self of Exotic Star might produce some special treats, has anyone out there seen or grown any Exotic Star selfed seedlings to bloom?
lokai99 thanked dondeldux z6b South Shore Massachusetts
jstropic (10a)
6 years ago
Here is my Spotlight from previous blooming.
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lokai99
Original Author
6 years ago
Oh yes! Spotlight is something I should try. The more pointed tepals is something I want in my dream flower. Wow, a much better picture than many examples ai have seen. Thank you for this. I asked someone in a much warmer climate who I have purchased seeds from to try Exotic Star x Spotlight. Perhaps the warmth and light of that climate might encourage pidgin production even when it fails somewhere else. Spotlight is something I would like to include!
dondeldux z6b South Shore Massachusetts
6 years ago
There you go, just what I mean! Lovely flower, Jody!
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JL (Zone 6B MA)
6 years ago
That's beautiful! Joey I look forward to seeing some of your crosses in the future!
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mariava7
6 years ago
Got this picture from facebook for you to see Joey. H. doraniea X H. pardinum. Amazing cross of two desirable hippeastrums but......
lokai99
Original Author
6 years ago
Wow, thank you! It is certainly spotted! If I should ever get pardinum pollen I will risk its use on someting that is still in production. I also really like Glasswork. Even if it only has 2 flowers, the coloring is so desirable.
Luca B.
6 years ago
H. Pardinum in the past was used in many breeding programmes.

https://books.google.it/books?id=kDE0FjoIR0UC&pg=PA468&lpg=PA468&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Carl
6 years ago
Hi Joey, I think I bought Spotlight in the winter of 2014? It's initial blooms were all deformed or at least turned sideways - in retrospect I should have taken pictures of the very crippled ones with lower amounts of flowering organs or misshapen stamen but I disliked them too much! :D
Hippeastrum 2015 · More Info

In 2016 it got rid of all the drawbacks and had very increased coloration - here under different light conditions:

Hippeastrum2016 · More Info

Hippeastrum2016 · More Info

I think I tried pollinating papilio with it and will try to continue if my papilio decides to flower! Spotlight is pushing again two scapes and I'm very pleased with it even though I vas very impressed with the Sonatini bloom here - I think it's 1623? The color is much more satuarated. Going back to my own Spotlight pictures I think the real color was a little closer to the second picture - I'm very curious how it performs this year after repotting.

Carl
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lokai99
Original Author
6 years ago
Oh Carl, do please post some pics here when it blooms again! I am firmly on Team Spotlight now. With such good examples and a look at what a more Saturated bloom looks like, I think it might not overpower its mates too much.

Luca, that was an interesting read! I find it especially interesting that aulicum was decided against because the segments were too narrow and the throat was too green. Had those same blooms been produced today, they might go into production. Interesting!
Carl
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
If you're interested, I would love to support your plan by sending you pollen!
lokai99 thanked Carl
lokai99
Original Author
6 years ago
Wow, Carl! I certainly would put it to good use and I would share any seeds that were produced.
catsandhippies
6 years ago
Spotlight is one of my favourite varieties and I love your pictures, Jody and Carl! I also like the lighter colored flowers and especially when they get frilly after some days. If mine decides to flower this year I'll put Exotic Star pollen on it for you, Joey! The same I will do with #1623 which is already sending up a scape...
lokai99 thanked catsandhippies

Please give me your opinion/advice on achieving my goal.

mariava7

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