I'm looking at Minors price list, and WOW, prices seem outrageous for a 12 foot Serviceberry. They have them divided into two groups, tree and clump form, I'd prefer the tree form. However, I do have a source where I can get them for $65 or $75 for a 6-7 foot in either form, not bad.

As far as Cornus Kousa, I see Minors has Satomi and Wolfeyes, ranging from 3-5 feet for $65, ouch again. I was looking for a white flowering, wasn't planning on either of these two cultivars.

I want a cozy feel, but not a lot of shade.

What are the growth rates?

I like fall color, but I'd be willing to sacrifice if I found the perfect fit for this placement...LOL.

I guess I'm thinking the dogwood has more a canopy form to it, whereas the Serviceberry is more upright, vaselike form. Am I correct? I thought the combo of the popple and the dogwood would be better, as the forms aren't as similar as the popple and the serviceberry, or at least I'm assuming so. I'm also envisioning the Dogwood as a smaller/shorter tree than the Serviceberry. I'm having a difficult time envisioning the Serviceberry as an ornamental.

I like the fact that Serviceberry attracts wildlife, I don't know if birds are as attracted to the fruit of the dogwood.

???????Dogwood berries considered messy????

You are correct on the shape of Autumn Brilliance compared to kousas but size can be misleading. At first, yes, the kousa is smaller but in 15-20 years the kousa would be larger judging by my trees. Of course this depends on what kousa you get.

Kousa berries messy? Not that I've seen. They say birds like them...never seen a bird eating mine, but the berries disappear, so something's eating them.

tj

ah.. popple.. quaking aspen ... i have no experience with it .... but that never stops me from an opinion .. lol ... [mentioned in a prior post]

because i feel its too aggressive for my 5 acre garden ...

so where you going with that ...

get rid of them .. well think seriously about it anyway ....

i have tried dogwood in my z5 .... foo foo ones .. all died .... i heard.. and see the native generic white ones around town ... it is all about your micro.. which you asked about in the other concurrent post [as well as the popple] .. and whether yours is the native one better suited for z5 ...

never had a serviceberry ... and this time.. have no opinion.. lol ...

i buy a lot smaller than you do .... and ergo .. i have a lot less invested.. when i have to remove a prior mistake .... or just decide to go in a new direction ....

but the bottom line .. as always ... whatever makes you happy in your garden is fine with me ....

good luck

ken

Kimcoco, where is your other source? I've been searching for better priced nurseries/tree farms for the last three years.

Minors has been the lower cost one I've come across in ALL of SE WI.

I'd go for service berry jsut because I'm a sucker for them. Of course, mine are all multi-stemmed and more natural looking, but I have I think 3 Autumn Brilliance and 4 Shadrun. I try to plant many so the birds can't get to all of them and there are still some berries for me. I can't get blueberries to grow here so they are the closest I can get.

Dogwoods are a pain in the butt. Fungus this, fungus that.
The autumn brilliance is probably less headaches but be prepared to trim, as I'm sure you already know, the suckers out and all the criss crossing branches.

Milwaukee, I was trying not to give up my source...LOL...but I see that they have several Serviceberries available at this time. They aren't local - I don't mind the drive because 1. it's an excuse to shop the outlet malls in the area, and 2. we have friends out that way... I agree about Minors though, for our area...they know me by name (if you see someone carrying a small chihuahua around Minors, that's probably me...LOL).

Look up Cambridge Tree Project dot org. They are non profit, the proceeds to go landscaping projects for the local community/schools. You'd have to pick it up yourself, no delivery to Milwaukee.

If you already have a serviceberry, I would certainly go for the dogwood. They are slower to grow, but it is so nice to have something that blooms later, after the main spring flush is over.

Thanks...no worries, no serviceberries for me. I emailed them to get some info but do you remember going there in the spring and being able to pick out your own trees?

Last poster makes a good point about the flowers, serviceberry flowers early and it last for only 1 week, 2 weeks is pushing it.

Again I'd really make your choice based on the texture/shape of the plant.

You could argue all day the ornamental features of each.

Though, I would say with 100% with no if ands or buts that serviceberry will not be as fussy with its soil conditions.

If sited properly I would not let that hold you back.

I wasn't able to choose my own trees as they only have a certain number of plants available, and you reserve them, first come first serve - I suppose if they had several of the same size there, they'd let you choose. I think I had ordered a 6' tree last year, but what I got was actually closer to 7'.

Can you tell me where I might find white flowering Kousa dogwood, the largest one 6' or more, in SE Wisconsin?

I'm thinking I'll plant the Serviceberry next to the garage, and replace the popple with the Dogwood. Saves me the trouble of choosing between the two. The bummer is the dogwood is slow growing.

I'm not aware of locally grown Kousa. For the general public in our area its just not a good performer.

I've been looking for one as well...so if you find anything let me know!

There is always mail order, just have to have patience.

I still may just go with the Satomi...I have an area that only gets east sun so the flowers shouldn't fade. The pink will go much better with the whites and chocolates on my house. Hopefully tsugajunkie can drum up some photos, I've never seen some good ones.

Where you happy with the branching structure? I've become so picky with branching structure now...I've gotten burned on several pruchases when I first started out.

I have not had any of the maladies listed above from iforgotitsonevermind or whaas on my kousa. I've seen many of those maladies when folks try to grow Cornus florida around here, though. The branching structure of mine is very nice. My work schedule has me in a daze but I will either look for or take a picture of mine this weekend. As for mailorder, I'd try either Foerest Farm or else Girards but March will probably be when their selection list is best. Forest Farm shipping is high so its best to "fill a box". Check their shipping info to see what I mean.

tj

Ok I found the kousa pics. Fall was getting long in the tooth when these were taken and the leaves were already dropping but here it is...

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And another angle. Not as open as it appears (some branches lost their leaves already).

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tj

Here's one of mine in the process of being swallowed by blackberry vines. They have since been removed and the area cleared of brush and is being landscaped this winter. It's located down on the lower property and things got ahead of me there for awhile.

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I like the berries it produces in September.
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Very nice! Thanks for posting. That has to be the best fall color I've seen on any Cornus.

I know I'm dipping in this thread but would you suggest 'Satomi' or 'Wolf Eyes'?

If 'Wolf Eyes' can achieve any level for fall color I'd lean towards that one.

TJ, your yard is spectacular. Is that a yew hedge in the first pic? Love it. And that Kousa is spectacular, thanks for sharing... how tall is it? I forget - is that Satomi?

Whaas, I'm assuming you are referring to the branching structure of the tree I purchased from Cambridge last year - I am happy with it, but you basically get what you get. I suppose they could send you a photo of what they have available, if you are particular about the form.

Iforgotitsonevermind...reading your post....does everyone here trim the crossing branches on the Autumn Brilliance?

I found a fantastic pic of a mature Kousa, the form is beautiful...I'm thinking it's perfect for next to my patio as a replacement for the popple.

How close to my patio is a safe distance for the Kousa?

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Since 'Wolf Eyes' is variegated, it often develops very good fall color, leaning towards the pink and red tones. But then IME most kousas develop better fall color than other dogwood species anyway. Wolf Eyes is a smaller, shrubby form, seldom exceeding 10', so that may play into your considerations as well. I tend not to favor the 'red'/pink flowering selections much and 'Satomi' is well down on my list :-) The color tends to be washed out and the bracts are small. And in my climate, even the white flowered forms tend to fade to a rosy pink, so you get the benefit of both effects.

If I could select only one kousa it would be a variety of chinensis, probably 'Milky Way' - the bracts are enormous and plentiful, virtually obscuring all the foliage when in bloom, and it is a heavy fruit producer as well.

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I am so long looking forward to spring! Even the 'Wolf Eyes' fall color is impressive.

If I can find 'Milky Way' around here I'll have to check it out.

I'm thinking 'Wolf Eyes' will look amazing (smaller size is desirable for this application) next to a purple leaved Acer palmatum. Mix in some purple Speedwell by the 'Wolf Eyes' and some Birchleaf Spirea by the Acer...I can see it now.

Kim- The kousa is 'Satomi' and its about 8'h x 9'w bought as 4 footer in 2001. Like I mentioned in one of these posts, I'd go with a white flowered one were I to do it all again. More profuse bloom.

tj

My Satomi had quite a few blooms. In the shade, if you will notice, they blooms were not as pink though. My Satomi seems to want to spread out rather than go up. If I don't do some corrective pruning soon it will get trashed by a wet snow or heavy ice.
GardenGal, looks like my next Cornus kousa will be a 'Milky Way. Thanks
BoTann

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