Very cool it reminds me of time spent camping in the Adirondikes. Lots of Hemlocks growing over rocks.

Pictures of roots growing through and over exposed rocks are very cool. Thank you.

Who's that handsome fellow? Is that you?

Wow. That's wonderful.

ML

Now that's a picture of contentment. Thanks for the pix Spruce.

tj

Amazing how those roots are growing over the rocks! Now that is a bizarre root flare...I wonder how they are able to grow like that? Your 'resident forester' pic is quite memorable!

I have wondered if it is just erosion of the soil. Seedling begins when there is soil. It grows, hits rock and roots bend. Time elapses soil goes down hill (They always appear to be very old and on an incline). Tree is well established so it does not care about roots above ground. The real life model of a popular bonsai technique!!!

They grow on rocks for you and I can't get one to grow in soil for me!I'm joking, I hope to successfully grow a few from seed next spring. Love the woodland pix.

dseiber:

These hemlocks grew on the rocks when they were covered with a mat of organic material. The roots grew downward over the rocks into real soil, and slowly over time the organic material rotted away or sloughed off the rocks leaving the roots exposed. I have some hemlocks that grew on stumps and logs. In those cases the stumps and logs rottted away and the hemlocks were left standing on their roots like stilts. I think many of you have seen this. If I were at my timberland now I would take some pics tomorrow and post. But really these are more interesting. There are many more of these hemlocks on rocks that I didn't take pictures of.

There was no erosion of soil involved because these rocks are near a local high point where there was a huge shelf of rock that eons ago cracked and then the pieces started slowly to move down hill "floating" on the soil. There couldn't have ever been any kind of water flow. In some places the huge rocks--larger than cars--are close together so you can walk in kind of passageways between them and even crawl under a few. The pictures don't really give a good idea of the "flavor" of the area. They are just one-dimensional and don't give any feel of "immersion" in the landscape.

--spruce

That makes sense the rock's surface is a nice bowl of organic stuff and pooled water for the seedling to get a headstart. Just one question are Hemlocks the only tree that does this???? It would seem something is special to allow a fast growing spurt to extend the roots to real soil. In the Adirondikes I just noticed Hemlocks doing this. I can definitely see why the ability to do this would be a useful adaptation.

I did a quick "the google" search on trees growing over rock and got a bunch of Bonsai hits. When I did trees growing over rock Hemlock I got some natural applications. Hardly diffinative proof that Hemlocks are special. It would be interesting if they are unique in pulling this off vs a tree is established and erosion happens..

dsieber:

Any tree that will germinate and grow readily on pure rotting organic material will do this. Of course there has to be adequate moisture, so it happens in cooler and wetter areas much more often. I visited the Olympic rain forest many years ago, and I can't now remember just which species did this on old rotting logs and stumps, but I am sure there were westerm hemlock and Sitka spruce, at least. I don't remember specifically any on rocks.

In the area of my timberland where I took these pictures, I am sure there was at least one red spruce growing the same way on a rock, and there may be a yellow birch or two. I will have to go back and take a careful look again. At my timberland yellow birch frequently germinate and grow on old stumps and logs, and eventually end up looking like they are growing on stilts.

And in this area there are a lot of trees growing on rocks covered by organic material where the organic material is still covering the rocks. I took the pictures of those where the roots were exposed because they look more interesting. If I took pictures of the others where everything was still covered by a thick layer of organic material you would not notice anything special. One or two of the hemlocks growing this way on rocks that are still covered are really large and old. Maybe someday their roots will be exposed like those in the pictures here.

In a lot of places where you can walk over the rocks still covered with the organic material, you have to be careful not to step between the rocks and have the weak organic layer break, leaving you to fall through. One time, years ago I steped on such a place, and maybe I was lucky I didn't fall and get wedged between rocks. When I stepped that time I was near the edge of a little ledge, and I fell down about 10 feet and landed on my back in a rhododendron thicket. I wasn't hurt, but I had a devil of a time getting myself extricated.

--spruce

Well thank goodness that the Rhododendrons provided a soft landing, especially since it is such a rocky area! Sounds like you've had a few close calls because I remember a story you told about dodging a tree you were cutting down (maybe a snag?).

Your Hemlock grove is very lovely. I assume that is Tsuga canadensis. Did you plant any of those trees yourself or is it all natural? Does much grow in the understory of those trees? They have very interesting trunks, when the lower limbs have fallen off like that.

Quercus montana (prinus) is another known for the roots over rocks

terrene:

Yes, I had forgotten that I told that story about the snag almost "snagging" me. I had cut a too-long dead tuliptree and moved back away from it to watch it fall, and as it fell it broke in the middle and the whole top part came back towards me. I ran as fast as I could for a couple of seconds, tripped and fell, and the top fell just about 4 feet short of where I lay. I am really, really careful about dead trees now. I learned a lot by my own errors, and am lucky I never got injured or killed. I have lots of stories to tell about things I learned by making mistakes.

I never planted or pruned or thinned out any trees in this area. I transplanted a hemlock from the woods once, and it is a nice 30 foot tall tree next to the driveway leading to the little trailer house I have at the timberland.

As for the understory--there is little under the hemlocks, but years ago there was much more. In some areas there is light that comes from the side--enough for rhodendron to grow. But the deer population has grown so much that they have eliminated most of it. There are areas where the rhodendron is too tall and strong for the deer to bother it. Also, in some areas as the hemlocks have grown larger, the shade has become more dense, and it is too much for even the rhodendron, which can grow in a good amount of shade. In some places rhodendron grows very thick and dense under hardwood trees, especially under black cherry. In some areas it is over 15 feet tall, and has wonderful bloom in July.

Oh, I looked again at the pictures I posted, and the second one actually shows a red spruce, not a hemlock, growing over the rock. Sorry I missed this when I posted them.

And another point. The hemlocks in these pictures are a bit larger than they look. In one picture I placed my hat for scale. These trees are really fairly large (up to about 30" DBH or more) and old. They are so straight and graceful that their appearance can be a bit deceiving.

--spruce

Very impressive, just out of curiousity what is hemlock lumber used for???

dsieber:

Hemlock lumber is relatively low value. Locally it is used for barn siding and some other kinds of construction. It tends to be knotty. Also it is used for boxes, crates, maybe pallets and railroad ties, etc. Maybe the main use in far western MD is for pulpwood, but the paper mill won't take logs over 18" in diameter. I never cut any. In the "old days" the bark was stripped for tannin and most of those trees were left to rot in the woods.

--spruce

Have seen Bald Cypress seedlings (6-10") growing on limestone slabs either in river (but above current water table)or adjacent to it in Texas hill-country. They had 2 or 3 roots spread out onto rock heading down to the water. Roots were covered with thin layer of dried moss and had "hardened" due to exposure to air. Assume they would die from either summer heat and drought or from erosive effect of next flood. Baffles me how the cypress seed germinated on top of rock and seedling survived as long as it did for me to see it.

Do you do anything for Wooly adelgids?

Paula:

I pray and try to enjoy the hemlocks as much as I can for now. The adelgid has infested one or two areas very close--20 or maybe a little as 10 miles away.

Researchers are still trying to come up with something--a predator beetle--that will control the adelgids. So far, from the last reports I have seen, there is nothing really promising. But as long as they keep trying, I must assume there is some hope.

On timberland like mine, injections and broadcast insecticides would not seem to be practical options.

It is so sad to see so many of our wonderful trees being lost. The American Chestnut, the native elms, the beech, ash trees of various species, walnuts, including black walnut, hemlocks, and what else?--I am sure I have left out something. So far research scientists have not found any answer to save any of these trees.

--spruce

Spruceman I never heard of Beech being in trouble, what is affecting Beech?poaky1

Thanks for the pictures. Great shots of the huge roots going over and around the boulders. Around here there are areas with massive decomposing stumps left from lumbering of white pine LOOOOONG ago. Some have yellow birch growing on top of them. In some cases the stump has rooted almost entirely away and it looks like the trees are walking along on long leglike roots. Doesn't look like your spruce are going to end up "walking." Those rocks aren't going anywhere.

poaky:

Yes, it is hard to keep up with all these diseases. I just recently learned about how bad the TCD disease of walnut will be.

Anyway, do a search for "beech bark disease" or more specifically "Nectria scale beech disease" and you can learn all about it.

From what I know, it is not a total wipeout/tree extinction disease, but in some areas good beech trees are a goner. I have seen a few reports that some immune or resistant trees have been appearing, but I don't know much about that.

--spruce

Spruceman... thanks for the info. It is just as well you will not be cutting those big boys to make toilet paper!!
I hope there are more marketable trees so you can keep the rest standing, especially trees that can be made into furniture/houses since they keep from decaying for generations.

Great shots. I know I'd enjoy hoofing around.

Dax

We have some clean beech coming in our woods, seeding in from the neighbours', via the squirrels. Their trees are clean barked and appear to be resistant. It's here, that beech scale, as my Mom's trees were very cankered up. The chestnuts have some resistant individuals too, but whether they are pure dentatas or the product of 100 years or so of introgression from planted Chinese trees whose pollen has blown to the woods...who knows.

dsieber:

So far, to all appearances, my timberland is uncut and looks, to the untrained eye, very much like a natural woodland. Any harvesting I have done has been âÂÂsilviculturalâ harvests, meaning that the trees I have cut were either damaged trees or trees that were crowding others too much, so their removal enhances the growth, and beauty, of the forest.

I have and will not have any pulpwood removed because doing so involves using equipment that easily can cause damage to the remaining trees, and compact the soil. And the price paid for pulpwood is so low that it is not worth the risk of damaging much, much more valuable trees.

What I am producing on my timberland is the highest quality logs possible, which would be used mostly for fine furniture. My top product is veneer quality black cherry. And, yes, the carbon in the wood of fine furniture will be sequestered for as long as wood that is put to any other use.

Dax, and anyone else interested: it may be possible to arrange tours.

--spruce

Here in western Wa. St. the Western Hemlock grows over rocks also. Normally though, you see the Hemlocks growing on the tops of Doug fir stumps or logs. Here's a picture of one of several on my property growing on a nurse log.
Mike

{{gwi:475141}}

The Alder stump with Sedums growing on it has a slate rock on edge in back a friend placed there, making it look like a poorly cut down tree. Actually, I used a Humbolt Cut and then leveled the stump.

I read up on the Beech scale and I,m in a small area that's still untouched by the disease.Hopefully it stays that way. I have 1 Beech a baby still around 6 ft, but the neighbor has a woodland with many next to the road, mixed with oak and the regular natives, it's my favorite route home. There aren't many untouched woodlands around here because of "progress", we don't have too many restaurants already and all that apparently.

Thank ya spruce, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Dax

Spruce: Amazing trees, like fantasies. These are from your timberland in WV? I agree -- the forester looks quite content.

Photo #5 reminds me of a discussion we had about bald cypresses in this forum 2-3 years ago. You wrote about lying down under a stand of bald cypresses, looking up at the sky.

You created such powerful images in my mind's eye that I planted 100-150 bald cypress seedlings in 2008. They are growing fast - many are 10-12' tall. I'm beginning to think I may be able to look at the sky through their branches.

You've given such good advice to people in this forum. Thank you!

Sent you an email Pam.

Dax

Spruce, here is a link to make you feel better about adelgids...too soon to see how it will pan out, but it does give hope.

http://www.threatenedforests.com/research/production-evaluation-of-hemlock-resistance
Jocelyn in PEI

Spruce, I observed a stand of Hemlocks just north of me in PA (Buchanan State Forest) just a few months ago. The tallest are around 120' tall & 30+ inches in dia. The adelgids have just been thru the stand in the last few yrs.

There's mostly bad news and alittle good. The bad is the damage is severe & prb'ly half the largest trees are dead. Almost all of the survivors have dead branches 1/2 - 3/4 the way up.

The small amount of good news is that there's no apparent activity now -- I couldn't find a single adelgid on any branch, where branches were coated w/them a few yrs ago. I couldn't look at the crown branches of the large trees, but the color looked healthy green, unlike the bleached-look of infested foliage. I also note the few hemlock saplings just down the road from me deep in a mountain-gap look fresh & green & no longer have any apparent adelgids.

I don't think for a minute that the adelgid is gone, but for some reason they have temporarily subsided. Perhaps they were killed by winter cold -- -8F last winter & -7F the winter before.

Great pics! I recently visited the Hemlock Bluffs Nature preserve in Cary, NC. Supposedly they grow hundreds of miles away from any other native hemlocks. They are growing out of the side of these north face cliffs. Amazing trees! I wish they were more common around here and that adelgid thing stinks!

Definitely some great pics there spruceman!! thanks for posting. Five star stuff. You could use pics like that for a tree calendar!

Dittos on the barn siding info. But up here in the western woods of NJ, it is hemlock is slightly revered for that application. Any folks who have seen old barns with wood siding turned black, that's hemlock.

It's quite nice to work with. I bought some from my local old-time sawmill. Made some lattice for my deck. Works real nice. (the deck is ipe, deck frame is PT yellow pine, and the lattice panels are hemlock)

{{gwi:475142}}

Very much a reminder of a movie my father took me to, as a child, called 'The Enchanted Forest'. A sappy tree-hugger of a movie, but it fit right in with my love of nature and the out-of-doors.

Awesome pics, Spruce!

Around here, a lot of the expensive kiln-dried lumber (2x4's) is hemlock.

Josh

Nice deck and the Hemlock lattice looks very nice! What is IPE? What wood did you use for railings? Not meaning to threadjack but I take care of several properties with a total of 4 decks/porches, all of which are PT frame with vertical grain Fir decking/treads/benches. They are a pain to maintain!! But I keep up with repair/refinishing because 1) liability and 2) fir is expensive and it rots out pretty quickly without treatment.

Ipe is also known as Brazilian Walnut. It is a cheapo substitute for teak. (1/4 the price?). It is a true iron wood (when dried, it will sink in water). Highly recommended for decks if $$ is OK.

Railings are also SouthAmerican - Garapa. Not an "ironwood" but similar to maple, heavier than white oak.
I bought these materials from East Teak, Charleston, SC. Delivered common carrier. Worked out very well.

{{gwi:475144}}

ÃÂpe = Tabebuia spp., family Bignoniaceae (i.e., related to Catalpa). Famous for its flower displays (even more so than for its wood).

Like most tropical hardwoods, the current rate of cutting is not sustainable.

Resin

Josh:

The western Hemlock grows somewhat differently from the eastern hemlock. It grows faster, and often in dense stands, and can produce some good quality lumber relatively free of knots. Here in the mountains of Western MD it is seldom utilized for sawn timber. Even very large logs are knotty all the way to the ground, And the knots seperate from the sawn boards very easily. Some mills, especially in the west, have computerized systems for cutting out knots and pasting in fill plugs. I don't know of any mills in my area equipped to do that.

But some timber cutters do put large hemlock logs on trucks and they go somewhere for something, but most logging operations I have seen just leave them alone. I am sure with the proper mill they can be made into good plywood, at least.

Beng:

Really interesting about the adelgids seeming to disappear and the hemlocks seeming to recover, at least to some extent. Maybe you could call some one there--a forester--and ask about what might have happened. Maybe you are observing something that just might be (hope, hope, hope) indicating some success with the predator beetle releases. Now that would be very stunningly good news.

Perhaps some weather variations could be responsible, but I doubt it. I read one report that these adelgids can withstand temps as low as 60 below zero. Maybe some extreme warm/cold/warm pattern could have disrupted their life cycle or something?

Anyway, I have heard that in colder climates they spread more slowly. They were reported about 10 miles from my timberland 6 or 7 years ago, and so far I haven't seen any on my timberland. They have been releasing beetles in the area, but so far no one is publishing anything about good results--or maybe I just haven't seen it, but I frequently do web searches for the latest news. But what I understand is that even if the beetle releases are working, it will take a number of years for their populations to get to a level that they can effectively control the adelgids, which seem to multiply much, much faster. The researchers working on this emphasize that we can't expect to wake up one morning and have these bugs under control, but over the long term this all may just pay off.

--spruce