I think live oak can be grown in that area but I haven't seen any around here (atlanta and points north) that look all that happy. There is also Chinese evergreen oak and Laurel Oak which is a native evergreen (semi evergreen).

Personally I think evergreen oaks are boring and extremely overplanted in many coastal areas. Then again I like trees that have leaves and leaves that change color. If I were you I'd plant some Princeton Elms in there and some other species. Not just oaks. Even though your farm is named oak run farm. Your situation reminds me of what is going on in my area, school boards selling off schools to developers then tearing the schools down and building shopping centers and the the school board goes and overpays for some farm and tears IT down and builds a school there. Ah, the circle of life.

It does sound like Quercus hemisphaerica (Laurel oak aka Darlington oak) will serve your needs best. Just keep in mind that they are not extremely long lived. They usually reach maturity around 50 years because of their fast growth rate and then start declining. They may also be semi evergreen in your area, only hanging on to some leaves during the winter.

Personally, my favorite oak is Quercus michauxii (Swamp chestnut oak). It is a much longer lived tree and also grows moderately fast. It's not evergreen though.

"Personally, my favorite oak is Quercus michauxii (Swamp chestnut oak). It is a much longer lived tree"

That sounds nice. I'd agree (I particularly like the glaucous underside of its leaves). When planting an avenue, it needs to be a long-lived species, or it soon gets gappy and awful. Maybe you could interplant with evergreen shrubs and small trees (e.g. Ilex opaca) for an evergreen understory for screening.

Resin

The Laurel Oak I was thinking of is Q laurelfolia or something like that. Not the hemispharica or whatever. I don't think they are synonyms.

A question for the OP - where exactly, or even approximately, are you located? You say you may not be in a location to have true live oaks, but don't say in what area you are. Whether you are zone 7A or 7B makes a difference in suggestions. And yes, I do know that it has been said that the zones are all being re-done, with, at the least, zone 7B becoming now zone 8A, if not the whole of zone 7 shifting into 8, so that also has to be thought about.

I agree with Resin; you should go for the longest-lived (which may also be slower-growing) trees you can, so the avenue lasts longer. If you decide to go with a mixed-species avenue, then longevity isn't quite so important, as any needed replacements wouldn't look totally out of scale or place. While a single-species avenue can be spectacular, I have to admit to a prejudice in favor of a mixed one. But, tastes differ, so ......

Since you will need a LOT of trees, a good source may well be your Forestry Dep't. They have pretty reasonable seedlings, usually up to 3 years old, which also usually grow fairly fast. If you can stand the thought of looking at them for a year or so, studies have shown that trees in the "shelter tubes" do better than trees not sheltered - however, as far as I know, the tubes are a weird shade of blue. At least, they were that shade 4-5 years ago, when the property between me and town put in about a hundred of them - there were rumors of pod people growing in the woods! They do cost more, however, than trees not so sheltered.

Please forgive me... All of this is very new to me. :)

I went to the arborday.org website, and it is actually telling me I am in Zone 8. (Zip code 27344 - Siler City, NC - which is about 45 min west of Raleigh.)

I can tell you that currently on the new property is THE largest water oak we have ever seen! The trunk must be 5'-6' and the height around 80'. So those must do OK there!
We have a mixture of clay and rocky soil.

Our current "oak avenue" here in Raleigh is willow or water oaks and pin oaks. We think it is beautiful, and we are saddened we are going to be moving. (It can be seen on the front page of our website at oakrunfarm dot com).

We planted them appx 19 years ago, and they are now very large, and they have thrived. They were about 8' tall when we planted them.

The forestry service here has one or two year growth oaks, and they are only about 36" tall. We'd really prefer to get a jumpstart with something as large as possible.

One thing I did not mention is that we have 15 acres, and someone bought the 10 acres right across from us. They have a stunning property with many mature trees and a large pond. They chose to build their house out in the open, directly across from our driveway.

So, one more thing that we are wanting from our trees avenue is as thick and lush a canopy as possible, to increase our privacy. That is also one of the reasons I was more interested in evergreen oaks - their year-round screening properties.

All of this is extremely helpful information, and I really appreciate everyone's input. Thank you.

"They chose to build their house out in the open"

Yeah, you get people like that, who like to flaunt their wealth!

I'd guess in z8 you should be OK for Southern Live Oak.

Resin

"on the new property is THE largest water oak we have ever seen! The trunk must be 5'-6' and the height around 80'."

I have some like that too. Unfortunately that's when they start falling apart.

The best oak is the eastern white oak--Quercus alba. Knowing your Trees, published by AFA starts its description by saying "Chief of all the oaks and outstanding among trees is the eastern white oak." A moderate grower, but very long lived--it is reported to have lived to a maximum of over 900 years. An avenue planted with these trees can be a true "legacy." You can get faster growing oaks like the pin oak, etc., but why not go with the best?

--Spruce

Please don't start selecting trees based on "zones".
Zones are make-believe.

They don't take into account soil type, pH, sunlight conditions, size, space, intended use, desired habit, urban tolerance, salt tolerance, invasive potential, growth rate, pollution, and heat (not really).

You select a tree based on those conditions not what some colorful map tells you that you can plant.

And once again I urge you to mix it up with things other than oaks. If an oak disease comes along (and they're on their way!) there won't be anything left standing in the southeast because that's all anybody seems to want to plant.

There are many problems with oaks in certain areas. Oak wilt, sudden oak death, and gypsy moths to name a few. Who knows where any of these problems may pop up next.

I would suggest that you do NOT plant a type of oak that is not native to your area. When someone plants trees that are not native a specific area, they often have problems getting them to grow. I am assuming that you want to plant the trees and you are not interested in "nursing" them for years to coax them to grow.

Many of the posters here are smart people. But they are tree lovers who are willing to work extra hard to get cool trees to grow. They are more inclined to do something with unusual trees and they will make it work for them.

Unless you are interested in taking the risk on non-native trees, go with something that is a proven grower in your area.

Good Luck!

alabama,
I guess I should rethink putting a barn over there around that tree then!

When we moved into our home, we did not have much money, (and no knowledge about trees). We planted about 15 oaks, 10 maples, 20 Bradford pears, and one or two each various and sundry other things like sycamore, Japanese cherry, etc. They were all 4' to 6' tall, and we bought them at places like Lowe's or other home centers because we didn't know any better.

We already had many very large trees - oaks, one or two pecans, a pine, a gum, etc.

When we planted, we could not afford to hire someone to help, so we hand carried buckets of water to all of the trees for quite awhile. Of all the trees we planted, we lost one small oak that had been on clearance at Southern States.

We are willing to go above and beyond for our trees, but also don't want to go to all of the trouble and expense if they are unlikely to survive and flourish.

So, I guess it comes down to maybe getting the soil tested to determine which oak choices would be best? I understand the concept that we could have some kind of diseases that decimate our trees, but we have our hearts set on oak trees to line our driveway, so I guess that is a chance we will have to take. We are fortunate in that we have many very large trees all over the property. We worked hard to minimize the number we took down when we built our home, so trees are very important to both of us.

Again, thanks for all of your input. I am considering everything each one of you is contributing.

Pam, ALTH got beat me to the punch. If that doesn't answer your question then just let us know. I'm not saying to avoid planting oaks, just to mix it up, use groupings of oaks, different oaks and other trees too. I am a tree nut obviously, with over 30 trees in my yard not including what's in containers and not a single one is an oak. That's not because I don't like oaks because I do, it's because there's lots of other wonderful trees out there.

Oakrunfarm, As Silver78 pointed out the native trees you will likely find to be well adapted to your local environment and will thrive without any help from you. That's extremely handy in instances of 100 year drought etc. You are not going to make a mistake this time around because you're doing your homework. See what oaks are growing around you in natural areas or in landscapes that you like the look of. Post photos for identification if necessary and we can give you the pros and cons of those oaks.

Thank you! I did just get off the phone with the county extension agent. I am going to get the soil tested, and also have them out to ID the other trees/oaks already doing well on our property, and to get advice from them on what thrives around the general region.

I know the area where the trees will be planted has been used as a pasture for cattle for many years, and has been open for a very long time, so I am sure the soil will reflect that.

Thanks again.

Live oaks don't typically get as tall as other oaks. Might start out with a pair of them by the road where they will always receive light. White oaks are so beautiful I would certainly include several of them if they grow there. Willow oaks grow fast and look good. With 300' of drive, try a variety of oaks, as well as some other trees.

I am not a fan of Live Oaks. They are a very dirty tree in my opinion. I don't know your soil conditions but Pin Oaks don't like alkaline soils. One of the highest quality trees where I live in zone 8A Texas, is the Shumard Red Oak. It has leaves similar in shape to the Pin Oak, has a nice growth rate and an excellent shape.

We lived in Charlotte in 1970-71 and we visited there earlier this past summer for the first time since we moved to Texas. Checked out our old house where I had planted to Willow Oaks. Both trees where easily 50-60 ft. tall with about a 2ft diameter trunk. I transplanted them when they were about 6ft. tall.

Or the soil may reflect compaction with paving equipment, buried construction refuse and having the top soil removed. But we'll keep our fingers crossed. Thumbs up on the shumard and white oaks that were suggested if the site is right for them.

I second Quercus michauxii.

The JC Raulston Arboretum showcases trees which are ideal for the Carolina Piedmont. If you haven't been there already, a trip would be worthwhile.
Sam

Here is a link that might be useful: JC Raulston Arboretum, NCSU

White Oaks also should have no problem growing in NC. And they are gorgeous.

QQ and Alabama: Thanks for the info about oak diseases. I've learned about the importance of diversity in this forum. Based on what I learned here, I planted white oaks, scarlet oaks, pin oaks, shumard, and nuttall oaks this year.

Alabama; Thanks for recommending Quercus michauxii. I added Swamp chestnut oaks to the fall seedling list. I also want to thank you for the info you posted earlier about longleaf pines. Our local forester may be able to help me get seedlings from an experimental stand about 5 miles from here.

Diversity is good - if you're not locked into trying to have a very uniform 'allee'. We did a mixed planting of northern red, bur, burenglish, and some other hybrids, with pecans, hickories, redbuds, and mayhaws interspersed alonside our 800 ft of driveway.
I tend to like the white oak group best - bur, white, overcup, swamp chestnut, etc., but scarlet oak really puts on a fall color show. I really like Compton oak, too - a hybrid of overcup & southern live oak with good growth rate, interesting foliage, with good red fall color - might be semi-evergreen in z7-8.

You might want to look at Montezuma cypress. It should be grown there with no problem. It's semi-evergreen version (in your location; evergreen in zone 9; i should find out soon enough in my zone 8) of bald cypress with no knees and a lot better drought tolerance. Very long lived. Grows very fast as well with reported up to 8 feet in one year.

'Nanjing Beauty' Montezuma-bald cypress hybrid is another nice tree other than oak if you are looking to add more varieties.

Lucky, I've got a Compton oak that I've been growing in a container since last year - I'll be planting it out this week. It's grown from about 18" tall to about 5' tall in one year, and the leaves are still totally thick, green and intact. It reminds me a lot more of a live oak/q. virginiana than an overcup oak/q. lyrata - the leaves are a little more lobed than q. virginiana, that's the only difference. I'm very impressed with it. I personally love live oaks - they grow fast here in their youth, then slow down.
So I'd recommend Compton oak, live oak, or another fave of mine, swamp chestnut oak/q. michauxii, which is a very fast grower with the prettiest leaves of all, to my eyes. I planted a few shumard and overcup oaks, and neither of them has grown as fast as the others I mentioned - maybe it's because they've gotten browsed by deer, but not being liked by deer is a plus when you live in the country.
Sherry

"A very uniform allee" is a very fragile display just waiting to be disfigured. The chance of it surviving long in pristine condition is slim. I would only consider it if I wanted a very formal type of garden AND was willing to live with a defaced look (i.e. never).

Thank you all so very much for the excellent suggestions. I am keeping up with this thread, and your input will definitely help in my decision.

I did determine which oaks are native to where they will be planted, and am taking many attributes into account prior to obtaining the trees. I am trying to get a nice balance of the type of look I want with the longevity and potential for survival of the trees. I definitely want to make sure they are there long after we are gone.

Soil testing is next, and I will let you know which ones are the finalists.

Thanks again.
ORF

Put a few Longleaf pines in there too. There's nothing like the look of oaks growing amongst tall southern pines.

I agree! Longleaf pines aren't brittle like the other pine that grows around here - loblollies - so if a hurricane or other powerful wind storm goes through your area, you won't be sorry you planted them.
Sherry

Yeah if you like that telephone pole look. :-)
All due respect but haven't you all ever seen a mature longleaf pine?

No pines for me. We have so many of those around here.

I used to work at Coty in Sanford, NC. The plant is surrounded on 3 sides by longleaf pines. When hurricane Fran tore through here, the pines were down all over the roads, and Coty lost a BUNCH of theirs - lying like matchsticks all over the place.

I want a lush, full canopy, and don't really like the looks of the pines that we have around here. We have one in our yard that is almost 100' tall, with a trunk it would take two people to get their arms around, and it has a pathetically-small amount of foliage.

Another oak you could look at is the Bluff Oak (Quercus austrina). It's supposed to have the flaky bark like white oak, but be a little faster growing. I don't have any experience with it myself, but it is gaining popularity.

I have a couple of bluff oaks, Alabama, and they're both slow growing. Also, the leaves get eaten by something that leaves them looking like onion skin paper - it doesn't kill the trees, just makes them look awful. They're beautiful in the spring, though, before that happens.
Sherry

Lucky, et. al. Any chance that you could post a photo or two? Like oakriver, I'm working on a plan for a mixed tree planting for a long driveway. It's hard to picture what this will look like, especially when you are using small trees and seedlings.

It would really help to see what you all are doing / have done.

Alabama and misssherry recommend longleaf pines. Oakriver had a bad experience with them during a hurricane. I just found a source for young longleaf pines that are no longer in the grass stage, so I'm interested in thoughts about using them in a mixed planting with hardwoods.

Sherry, it's good to know that about Bluff oak. If they're slow growing, then there would be no reason to choose them over White oak. I still really recommend Swamp Chestnut oak though. At three years mine is 10ft tall.

Pam, longleaf pines can have some aggressive roots because they like to grow deep into the soil. In nature they have a taproot 6-10ft long. Just make sure you're not buying too large a tree in too small of a container. Before you buy, slip the container off and look for any large circling roots. If you see circling roots, pass it up and look for a smaller one. I prefer the smaller ones in the grass stage myself because they have the advantage of being able to put more roots down before height growth. We're really only talking a year or so difference in time.

I'm very surprised to hear that long leaf pines went down in a hurricane. About 95% of the loblollies on my property were broken in half or uprooted by Katrina, whereas only 1 or 2 of the LLPs were damaged at all - it makes me wonder if hers were really long leafs. Slash pine looks almost identical, but it's not nearly so wind resistant - I lost quite a few of them when I lived on the coast/Gulfport in Elena in the mid-1980s. A few of my LLPs lost a lot of the top growth in Katrina, but it's been growing back slowly but surely. Another thing about LLPs - when they grow in the open, they grow wide.
What trees a person decides to plant is a matter of taste, I guess - I happen to like LLPs even when they look like telephone poles! :)
Sherry

"it makes me wonder if hers were really long leafs. Slash pine looks almost identical, but it's not nearly so wind resistant -"

The native range of slash pine does not include NC or even that much of SC.

Having grown up in UCLA(upper corner of lower Alabama), I wasn't enamored with pines - they were so common. But since I've moved to the frigid northland(TN->MO->KY), I've come to miss them - some. I'd been sort of longing to plant a few LLPs, but feared they wouldn't fare well here, but just a couple of years back, someone planted a handful of LLPs on the campus of the community college, across the street from my office, and they're doing just fine. Oh, and there's a Q.virginiana on the community college grounds, too - been growing there since 1970.

Lucky, I'm at least trying LL Pine. Got seedlings from a NE Alabama source ('mountain' LLP) in spring 2005, so that helps w/hardiness. 2 of 4 are in stem growth now -- almost 2' tall. I don't have any sheltered areas, so they're exposed.

I'm also trying Pond pine in a low, mucky spot -- looks good so far.