first thing i would do.. is ID the neighbors pines.. and NOT get those kind ... just in case some plague comes along ...

in reality .. though.. no pine is naturally shaped like a xmas tree ... most are pruned for sale in such a form .. but 10.. 20... 40 ... 60 years down the line.. none of them look like xmas tees ...

and speaking of that.. why is that important ...

i am trying to define where you want to go with this.. beyond shape and wind break ...

diversity rules.. so i would plant all kinds of pines ...

every county in the US has a soil conservation district office... and wind breaks are soil conservation by definition ... you should be able to get some real good info locally ... call them or stop in if you can ... they also sell very cheap.. very small plants.. for nearly nothing.. at the proper planting time in spring ...

also.. we need to know where you are in oh .. is lake effect snow load off lake erie an issue??? or are you nearly in the south .. your choice of which pine might make a difference ...

also .. there are some spectacular arboretums and seller/producers in OH ... so perhaps we can suggest some ...

more info please ...

ken

Thanks ken. I was a little misleading when I said like an xmas tree... I was only reffering to an xmas tree because they go to the ground. I see a lot of pine trees that don't go all the way to the ground (now they could have trimmed them that way, I'm not sure) and I see a lot that the branches sit on the ground which is what I was looking for.

Once these new pines are planted, I plan to mulch the entire area with a curvey bed and put bushes, hostas, flowers, etc in front of the pines to take up some of the ground space. This is the first step into turning my entire back yard into a garden.

I live in mid eastern ohio. We do get a good amount of snow each year, but nothing even close to lake effect snow.

I priced 7 foot pines and they are $170 which is way out of my budget since I'm going to need 6-7. The arborday foundation site is giving away 10 free pines with a $10 donation. Perhaps I should go this route? They are roughly 1 foot in size and you can choose from about a dozen different kinds. The only downside is they have to all be the same. They have Blue Spruce, White Pines, Norway Spruce, White Firs and Douglas Fir.

use the search here or google arborday for comments on their quality ...

ken

Most pine trees I've seen, especially the blue spruce and norway spruce, will either lose their bottom branches over time or need them cut over time...not right away, but in many, many years. Blue spruces don't seem to really thrive all that well in Ohio.

Blue spruces almost always need limbed. With time, Norway spruces will start to look different and be a bit thinner...take a look at some of the older specimens in pictures...they can become almost gangly with age. We have one and I love it, but it does not serve as a visual barrier, except starting 20' up.

We had white pines at our old house and it was in prime lake effect country...every winter we had at least one huge branch fall either from excessive snow load, or wind. They too will lose limbs from the bottom up.

I personally have not found most pines to be good *long term* visual barriers, as eventually, most of them either naturally lose, or need limbed, their bottom branches.

I don't know about the firs, though.

White pine, limber pine (like vanderwolfs pyramid) and Austrian pine come to mind.

Most pine trees I've seen, especially the blue spruce and norway spruce,

Spruces are not pines. They are conifers.

If the OP wants either conifers or pines, they will want to first decide if they want a 4-5-6 ft tree, which will be anywhere from $80-200. If they want something smaller, they won't get a windbreak for years. So might as well go for something small if that is OK and contact the State soil conservation service and see what kind of windbreak trees they have.

Dan

Are their any conifers or pines that won't loose their bottom branches? Loosing them 50-60 years after planting isn't a huge deal because I probably won't be around. However, I wouldn't want to plant one and 20 years down the road have the lower branches fall off.

I've only called one place and they wanted $170 for a B&B which is kind of out of my budget since I'll need 6-7 of them. If I only needed 1 or 2 I wouldn't mind paying $170. Since I need a lot more I wouldn't mind getting the smaller ones and watching them grow.

I would go with thunja "green giant" in your case. The trees you suggested get extremely tall(possible 200+ feet for white pine) and when they mature they wont have branches that reach the ground.They wouldn't limb up until 20-50 feet up the tree, which doesn't offer much protection.The thunja I suggested gets to a decent size like 30 feet in about ten years.They also have that christmas tree look and bottom branches.

Hmmm.... the Green giant looks great! It might be a better choice because I can't find any bad readings about it. Every type of pine, spruce, etc all have some type of negative drawback. Perhaps planting a bunch of those in a mulch bed along with some other perennials/annuals would even look better to start my garden.

I found a site that has these called GreatGardenPlants. They sell them in the 1 gallon container 2-3' tall for $19 each. They even have a video on the site holding the plant that you'll get. They look pretty large already.

check botanyshop.com for gg's ..

there ought to be a couple million posts in garden web about GG's ...

ken

Missouri offers bare root bundles. Something like a dozen trees for fifteen dollars. If your state doesnt there are companies like Musser Forrest which sell large lots of trees. I might go that route with a couple 'specialty' blue or yellow needled cultivars for highlights

Like someone said earlier, go with a combination. Prevent any one plague from killing your whole screen. Also i wouldnt worry greatly about the lower limbs once the tree is twenty years old. You or the next resident will just plant some shrubs to fill in gaps. It will give even greater diversity.

rickstang

Yes, I would defiantly "Go Green Giant" They Are beautiful looking trees! They are supposedly the fastest growin' evergreen! I love them!!!!!!! I like Arborvitae to...haha.
Well then again, I guess there aren't many plants I don't
like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caleb!!!!!!

Thuja plicata 'Green Giant' (maybe its just Thuja 'Green Giant') is a fast grower when young. It takes about 20-30 years to get a 30' plant in most soils.

greenthumbzdude, where are there 200' White Pines in OH (or anywhere in the Midwest)?

40-50 year landscape Picea (glauca, abies, pungens) are anywhere between 40-70' in SE WI.

Rick - Where in Ohio are you from? I'm from East Liverpool, originally.

I would suggest either Pitch pine (Pinus rigida) or Virginia pine (Pinus virginiana). Both are native to the Appalachian region of Ohio (both grew native near where i grew up). Both species handle the clay, acidic soil there just fine and are much more resistant to diseases and insects (i.e. tip moths, Diplodia shoot blight and pinewood nematode) that affect Austrian and Scots pines there.

rick .. listen to me ....

you are within a nice car drive from spectacular arbs in dayton and cincy ....

get yee butt in your car.. and go see some in person ... and see some nice trees ...

and let me put this as plainly as i can ... anyone who pays a $170 for a 6 foot pine is either insanely rich ... or not rich .. if you get my drift ...

a one foot, one gal pine.. can easily be 4 foot tall in 2 years ... and cost you somewhere around 15$ max .... as i said above.. i think ... strobus will easily grow 3 to 5 feet per year after a year or two of growing a good root base ...

now get your head straight and forget about the bargains at the hardware bigboxstore.. and go see some real pines ... at dawes ....

and at this point in time ... pruning is left to what you want to do with your trees... for example.. i tend to limb up many of my trees.. due to the riding lawnmower.. but in the conifer beds ... where they are surrounded by mulch.. they are left to their own devices... i really cant conceptualize why this is an issue .. as you imply .. it might be in 30 to 50 years ... but why is that a BIG part of the decisions to be made now ....

i am trying to get you excited about the diversity of pines ... instead of fixating on some specific trait that may or may not be all that important.. and perhaps you can 'see' that for yourself at a place like dawes ... sometimes you just need to turn off the computer .... and go visit mother... mother nature that is ....

good luck

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: dawes

and since i am trying to save you that first $170 bucks.. spend another $20 in gas and go to geneva/saybrook OH ....

though a summer visit might be more spectacular ...

looking at the link .. at approx'ly $20 a pop ... you could get [170*3]/20 = 25 pines ... each and every one unique ... and which ever ones you dont like in 5 or 10 years.. cut them down.. and revel in the remaining 20 pines .... [based on your thoughts about a budget of 3 or so???] ..

you sound young ... not worrying about what is going to be in 50 years ... and in my world.. i have more time than money .. and would go for more .. i can wait a few years for them to get to size ....

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

I definitely will add multiple kinds. I think it'll really add color and depth to that area. All the same kind isn't going to make it look that interesting.

I will get at least 6-7 of those green giants though and probably another 6-7 different pines along with bushes, plants, maybe even I'll toss a few small bolders rocks I have laying around in their as well.

whass, I dont know about OH or the midwest but I do know here in Pennsylvania there are records of eastern white pines reaching close to 230 feet.However, these records come from pre-colonial times and the trees were extremely old maybe 500+ years.

Agree about the "but" part of pre-colonial sizes. When I want to see how big Pin Oaks get I drive around an older local neighborhood. Same with pines or spruces. Heck, same with Dawn Redwoods since we have some sixty year old ones at the local botanical gardens.

I'm pleasantly surprised...

I can't vouch for the accuracy, but the champion Pinus Strobus trees are in Michigan (201' and 181' tall)

Alright Guys... time for a few pics from above of what I plan on doing. This picture was taken awhile ago with Google Earth right after we built the house (which is why it looks like we don't have any grass.

THIS IS A PHOTOCHOP; The trees to the right of my land will be the green giant, pines, etc. The plants in front of my septic will be double knock out roses. The trees and plants from both directions will kind of lead back into trails I plan to make. I didn't want to just go straight across with the roses into the trees because it would kind of separate the land. Along the trails I'll add more trees, benches, flowers, etc.

My backyard is pretty large... with only 1 small tree. I plan to do additional mulch beds/flowers/trees as well.

The reason I'm putting flowers in front of the septic like so is because I have real nasty looking weeds that just stay brown and fuzzy all the time. When I look out my back window, it just isn't pretty anymore. Reason why I'm landscaping past my septic is the same. I hardly have any trees... it's all very ugly brush. I definitely want more trees and less brush back their mainly for fall scenery.

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on the left.. the blue tree is abies concolor candicans.. behind it is an apple ... EVERYTHING PAST THE APPLE.. but for the giant cherries way in back.. and the oak on the right top ... WAS ADDED SINCE I MOVED HERE IN 1/2000 ... it was previously a meadow horse pasture ....

all were one gal plants averaging about $20 ...

i realize you are moving from the house building to the landscaping .... but you can do so much better than what you are thinking right now .... and i addressed where you should visit for inspiration ....

your next best planting time is ground thaw next april ... spend the whole winter thinking up a plan.. and do better than some GG's and some pines ... its akin to saying i will paint the living room white ... and buy some lawn chairs for the space ...

i presumes you plan on living in the house you just built for decades.. well .. then plan out an outdoor living space with as much care as you did the house and the interior...

and these gg's were 6 inches tall in 4/2001 ... 2 inch peat pot and 4 inch rooting ... $2 a piece ... and the pix were last year ....
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if you want to drive up to adrian MI ... i can give you a tour ... the beauty of conifers.. except for the ones that have seasonal color change.. is that you can look at them all year round ....

ken

Beautiful! Did you do that little by little or is that something you did in one summer? The photochop above is just something I want to start with and build up. Since everything takes time and money I'll have to start small and develop from there. (i.e. next year do the large trees, green giants and bushes to create my privacy wall. Perhaps even put a flower bed in front of the septic. The following year add more trees, beds, etc). This past year I spent a lot of money building a retaining wall around the front of my house, extending that bed down around the side and all the way around back. I still need to add a lot more plants to those beds.

Right now my back yard is a clean slate. I hope to get it to where you can walk outside and it'll almost be surreal... something you would see in a magazine or some kind of art.

This is more of a personal preference I know, but has anyone used small red stones to landscape large beds? I'm creating a new idea and the bed on the side of my house will be around 150' x 30'. I really like red mulch (I know not many do, but Its just a personal choice.) I put a thin layer of mulch down around my bed each year to keep it looking fresh. It looks great, but you have to keep doing it each year.

I like the look more of a clean simple garden (i.e. the trees/shrubs/flowers are spaced apart enough to see the mulch below). So if I have to mulch that huge bed every year, it could be pretty hard even when the trees/shrubs get larger. I don't have a truck, I've always hauled bags.

What do you guys think of this idea? Putting the dark red stones on the inside and the tan looking ones on the outside.

I def want to keep it red to match the mulch around the house.

{{gwi:448821}}

I would think you'd be forever fiddling to keep the red, red and the tan, tan.

tj

Unless more experienced posters think it is too late to plant, go to your nurseries right now and see what is on sale. The nurseries around here still have some fine stock at 20 to 50 percent off. Even if you find just a few, you can get a head start and a discount.

I saved hundreds of dollars this fall buying at least 10 trees and shrubs at that kind of discount

Marie

This is very off topic, and I grovel in apologies....but here goes...
Over the next few seasons, you might consider transitioning to a natural pine bark mulch for a few reasons;
natural brown complements all colors of bark, needles,leaves and flowers. If you plant any shrub with purple-pink flowers the red mulch will not be an good aesthetic experience. You want the trees to be the focal point, not the mulch

The red mulch is more expensive.

For the back beds which won't be highly visible, use wood chips you've finagled from a tree company that's just chipped trees. They are free!

As the mulch fades and you add more, the reds won't match and there will inevitalbly be some mixing of the old and the new. Or a new bed will be new red and the old bed will look faded.

We really don't know what we might find out about those dyed mulches leaching into our soils.

I am getting off my soapbox. But I do hope you have a wonderful time choosing your plants and building your dream woodland

The dyed mulches leaching into my soil is my main concern with the very large backyard beds. Around my house it doesn't concern me as the beds are only a few feet out anyhow. I'm afraid that if I keep piling dyed mulch on the backyard beds, after 30-40 years what will that do to my soil. I'm no expert but you would think after awhile some of that might enter my drinking water.

I'm really getting into gardening... I like going to stores and picking up flowers/bushes/etc. I don't really enjoy hauling the mulch and larger stuff like that. Don't get me wrong, putting the mulch around my house isn't a big deal at all. I just don't think each year I could spread mulch around a 150x40 foot bed.

I'm not worried about new bed looking new and the old beds look faded. With dyed mulch, each year I spread a very light layer of fresh stuff over the old mulch after I'm finished planting the annuals. So in spring all my beds look like new. Dyed mulch only lasts about a year anyhow.

I thought about wood chips as mulch, but I've seen it done before and it just looks a little "unfinished" I guess you would call it. I've always liked the bed being darker than the green plants. It kind of makes them pop out more in red/black mulch.

I'm not to sure about