I have a few thoughts... I've tried cane pruning on a couple vines, and I couldn't tell any difference in the fruit quality or the yield so I abandoned the idea. I find spur pruning to be quicker and a lot simpler. In my opinion, either method is fine unless you are dealing with one of those few varieties that do no produce fruit on the first few buds. Dis-regarding those varieties, just go with what you know and what works for you. The only other reason I can see that cane pruning would be better is that buds with high light exposure usually produce more fruit. With cane pruning you can choose the canes that got the most light whereas with spur pruning your choices are very limited. We have plenty of sunshine here, so I don't see it as an issue, but in Oregon (not as much sunshine) it may be more important. I'm guessing the distinction between table and wine grapes is because, with wine grapes, you don't want high yield (many clusters are often dropped at veraison) so being a little less fruitful is no problem. I've visited several commercial vineyards here in Idaho. We have both table and wine grape vineyards in the area, and all that I have visited are spur pruning and producing very high quality fruit. I know that what is best for commercial growers is not always what is best for "backyard" growers, but in this case, it does show that spur pruning is commercially viable (at least in the Snake River Valley). Fruitnut, I think it was you who, a couple of years ago, advised me to visit the U of I research facility. I'm really glad you did, I got some vines (cuttings) from them and learned a lot about viticulture and fruit growing in general. Thanks for the suggestion.

JBCarr, I could not agree with you more about monoculture and especially with roses. I'm learning more about gardening than about roses although they will always be my first love. They shine much more when planted amoung other plants rather than with other roses. As I change my gardening habits, I'm keeping this in mind and replacing these monocultures with different shrubs. Just my opinion on gardening, no judgment call. I'm reminded of the story of Mrs. Wilmont's Ghost. Seems Mrs. Ellen (?) Wilmont, a gardener of some repute, was asked by many to come evaluate their gardens. Her assessment was almost always, not enough contrast, not enough diversity. A few weeks after her visit, the gardener noticed a number of sea hollies (a course looking, prickly perennial) sprouting in the bare spots in their garden. Mrs. Wilmont often carried seeds of this plant in her pocket to "help with the contrast and diversity." Len511, I wish my Felicia was doing well. She is bare caned; not pretty at all. Good luck! I hope yours continues to do well. And my Felicia is prone to sending up those long canes, but is too broad to be a climber. Jeri, I suspect weather is the greatest most uncontrollable factor in any garden. We've had years with drought but this year we've had above average rainfall, except for a dry August. Now, with all the hurricanes, our weather has turned wet again. Still, there is very little mildew compared to the last two years. I think most of the roses are going through "withdrawal" from chemical dependency. Some I know will never recover. I can only wait and see. Barbara

Thanks for the words of encouragement and photo ideas grannybj65, I have a really nice digital camera and plan to take LOTS of photos all along the way as I develop the garden. The photos linked here were taken by a good friend. I have an eye for good snapshots so once I'm down there I'll be taking dozens of photos from all angles and different weather conditions. The joy of digital photography - you never run out of film. LOL One of the things I like to do is take a series of photos from the same angle all day long on a sunny day to get a general idea of where the shady and sunny spots are. Doing that a few times throughout the year as the Earth changes kilter I'll perfect an image in my mind of where best to place different plants based on their light/shade tolerance. Looking at the photo of the front of the house dead-on, I just got a great idea. Facing the house, the living room is on the right side with the single window and the kitchen is on the left side with the double windows. In front of the double windows inside is the kitchen sink, so it is not a spot that will have tremendous "looking out the window" appeal. So, as the cogs turn in this hard head of mine, I'm visualizing lattice from the center pole on the porch going to the left corner, then around to where the porch meets the house. Then cutting a rectangular window out of the center of the front of the lattice and framing it a bit so there is a clear view out to the road from the kitchen window. And then I can visualize the lattice painted white (or more likely light gray as I'm not too fond of white outside) and covered in Scarlet Runner Bean and Clematis with maybe some "Joseph's Coat" (Amaranthus tricolor) in front and some dwarf Cannas with some "Love lies Bleeding" (Amaranthus sp.) along the side. The scarlet, violet, purple and deep reds and burgundys will all be in harmony with one another, at least until I decide on a totally different look down the road. I can have a nice metal frame rocking deck seat out on the porch hidden away behind the wall of vines where I can sit and enjoy the shade - and a good spray from the gardening hose on all the vines will create a nice cooling breeze. Well, it's a thought anyway. :) I saw on eBay this evening someone in San Diego California is selling several batches of Tillandsias (the common T. ionantha). They are offering them as a box of 50 child fist-sized clumps of them for around $20 if I recall - quite cheap. I immediately thought how neat it would be to buy 50 or 100 clumps and then carefully wire them to a wire-frame wreath for a living, blooming front door wreath, especially once the front porch is semi-latticed in and well shaded. A few sprigs of Spanish Moss draping down from the wreath here and there would further kick off the effect. It would live on the wet air, constantly regenerate itself with new growth, and bloom off and on throughout the year. During the colder months I could bring it inside and hang up it in the living room window where it can get plenty of bright indirect light. Ok, I'll shut up now.

LatinLady, the seedpod that this seedling came from was on a white NOID plumeria. Sometimes I do see 6 petals, but it is rare. The rest of the blooms off of this seedling have all had 5 pedals. Here is the plumeria where I got this seedling from (mother): And here is an updated photo of the seedling. It looks like more orange/yellow is coming out, maybe due to the heat. Also, this pic is in direct sunlight: Here is a pic of Musk Rainbow, that has similar colors in similar areas on the petals (pink/orange/yellow). Maybe this is the father?