Here it is.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose List

hi, Barbara,
Thanks for the update; I was just wondering the other day how your roses were doing no spray.

In a fit last spring I whacked Hermosa down to almost nothing and then watched it grow back to almost three feet, bloom a lot over the summer and the foliage is STILL CLEAN. I have fed it every four or five weeks on the advice of Jason Powell at Petals of the Past.

Do you think the AACT had any effect? But I guess it's still to early to tell... ?

Gean

Hi Gean,

As far as disease resistance, I doubt it. The roses have bloomed more with less fertilizer, however, if you account for their withdrawal from fungicides and presence of rose midge. I've used it on other plants as well and all seem healthy. Still, as you say, it is early to tell. I will continue the AACT next year also. Your experience with Hermosa makes me wonder if I shouldn't be pruning lower as well. Of course, the OGRs can't take that kind of drastic pruning. But, my Great Maiden's Blush must be at least 15 feet, maybe 20 and is all but naked.

Barbara

I'm glad to hear Cornelia is doing well for you. I really like that rose and its habit.

Randy

Yes, Randy, Cornelia is almost squeeky clean. She is on Olga's list of no spray roses as well.

Sadly, my Thomas Afflek is about 40% defoliated. He is also huge, about 8 or 9 feet tall. I think I'll prune him really hard next spring and see what happens. He stayed clean up until about 2 weeks ago. He is also still blooming.

Barbara

Barbara --

Some roses gain disease-resistance with full maturity. So I tend not to discount
a rose unless it has been here long enough to "grow up."

Other roses go through terrible "withdrawal" symptoms in the first couple of years
of spray-free life. These, too, may be better in another 3 years.

Lastly, insect pests may diminish, as a healthy ecology evolves. This really
does take a good three years.

So you've done well! Congratulations!

Jeri

Jeri, thank you so, so much. You have no idea how discouraged I have been. To go from healthy, beautiful roses, even with diminished blooms, to a garden of mostly sticks is so discouraging. It is truly easy to see why most gardeners would grab the nearest remedy without hesitation.

Yes, I know that it will take them a while to recover from this withdrawal. Right now, my plans are to sp those roses that I wouldn't miss. L'Aimant is one and Louise Odey. As to the midge, I may try to cover again with newspaper next spring to see if this will help. Or, maybe I'll try cardboard. Just brainstorming here.

Thank you again.
Barbara

Felicite Parmentier and Maiden Blush are always get BS for me too, but I am surprised with Konigin von Danemark. It is usually clean here. The other really clean alba is Semiplena.
Olga

Barbara, thanks for sharing about your experience. I also went no spray this year and felt very discouraged as well. It is great to get recommendations for roses you would not normally consider. For example, now I'm going to look into Cornelia. It's pretty and maybe it could replace my Clair Matin (which I heard was pretty healthy but mine defoliated earlier than most all my other roses). I've already ordered a bunch of rugosas and gallicas for the spring. A couple of Buck roses too. Thanks again for sharing, Shelley

Don't think that Baron Girod will get healthier by whacking. You need to evaluate a rose for more than a couple of months. Some roses get healthier when they are more mature and stronger. By wacking him, he generated new growth which is initially clean, but will the new growth be able to stay that way. Also, BS can be harbored in canes as well as old leaves, so getting rid of old canes may get rid of some infection, but in time if the rose doesn't have built-in resistance it will return. But I hope this rose does well for you.

My Maiden's Blush was spotless this year, but my KvD defoliated more than half but usually doesn't. You should keep all your Albas and watch them for a few years and see how they do in various conditions. Unless you want your Maiden's Blush to be a 20' climber, don't be afraid to prune her.

Olga,yes, I was surprised by KdD also. She is under a lot of pressure from rose midge and sawfly this year. I will keep her and spray with BT at the beginning of next year for the sawfly.

Shellfleur, you might want to look at the Kordes series called "fairy tail" roses. My Lion's Rose and Floral Fairy Tale are super clean and have been all year. I'm certainly going to look more closely at them for some future date-post midge, if there is such a thing.
Cornelia is a good rose, but for me she grows more wide than tall. Her canes as they age can get pretty stiff.

Lori, I would not be surprised in the least if BG dropped all his leaves tomorrow. HPs don't generally stay healthy in my garden, even with fungicides. I just thought it was an interesting observation. Maiden's Blush is a climber on an ugly heavy duty swing set. It has been beautiful every spring.

{{gwi:309805}}
That photo was taken last spring. This spring she climbed over the top.

Thank's for your comments.
Barbara

Baron Girod de l'Ain was a sad disappointment to me.

Like pretty much all of the other red HPs (and most red Austins, which
are pretty much the same critter) he mildewed here to an astonishing degree.
And, BTW, he mildewed even when we sprayed religiously.
So, these days, I don't grow red HPs, nor fragrant red HTs, either.
To my complete surprise, red CHINAS are bulletproof here.
Go figure!

It's gonna take time for you to get a handle on what will, and will not,
grow clean for you. And even when you think you've got it all figured out,
they can surprise you.

We have had more than a month of long dark mornings of warm, thick fog.
There are specks of mildew all over the place here. Even normally-imperturbable
Rosette Delizy has some low-level mildew.

Even so, I look around and there are still a LOT of clean roses here.
MY cleanest-best won't be your cleanest-best, but you will find them.

Jeri

Barbara,
That's a beautiful specimen of Maiden's blush. Looks great growing up that swing set.

Barbara, thank you for the update. I hate to be a downer, but my roses don't develop any better resistance to blackspot as they mature. In fact, I think they just get worse. I have some that outgrew a tendency to mildew, some that didn't. I believe that they either have a built in blackspot resistance(as lori said) or they don't and if you have a high blackspot pressure, they won't do well no spray. I do know that sometimes moving them to another location will sometimes decrease the amount of blackspot they get (if they are in too much shade or have too little air circulation). It's all a matter of trial and error. Good luck and I enjoy reading your updates.

Carol

Jeri, I have avoided most HPs for that reason. The only one I have that stays fairly clean is Archiduchess Elizabeth d'Autriche. She just wasn't in the 5% or less bracket.

Yes, Lori, she is lovely when clean. Problem is she is soooo visible, a focal point in the back yard and the view from my kitchen window. One more year, maybe, but I'm afraid she isn't going to make the cut. Such a romantic rose!

Carol, It is interesting what you said about sun and circulation. Two roses, Cornelia and Buff Beauty are in miserable spots with little sun and poor circulation-and fairly clean. Go figure!

This is heavy duty territory for black spot. I suspect my choices will be very limited.

You are all so encouraging (except pesty Carol LOL just being honest and how I love a realist) and I'm feeling more up to the challenge.

Barbara

You know I love you enough and we are good enough friends to tell you the truth :-) At least the truth in my garden. Some of them defy all that you know about sun requirements and air circulation. I have a few that are in too much shade and do quite well. Go figure.

Pesty Carol

Barbara, I wondered if you'd read this yet-another-study on rose midge. This one is from Oregon State by a Canadian lady using pyrethrins and beneficials on rose midge. The study is kind of interesting, but her name/phone/email is listed. Maybe she can give you some new thoughts about dealing with rose midge.

Just my goofy thinking, I wondered if the rose midge reproductive cycle would be broken if you pinched all the blooms/tips off for a year even if the roses didn't show any signs of damage. Sounds like a pain to do, though.

Cardboard sounds good.

I know you're going to figure this out! Gean

Here is a link that might be useful: oregon state ipm site; rose midge study

Barbara, I am trucking along with you too. This is my first year to go "no spray", but in the past 3 years I have use Conserve about 3 times, so I had cut down on the insecticides before this year.

This weekend I took out 6 Prairie Stars, Memorial Day, and Moonstone. Two Gemini are next and so are 2 Veteran's Honor. We actually will try to transplant Veterans Honor in the back to see if it can survive.

Now Marie Van Houtte looks like a queen sitting on her throne. We have some roses in the back to join her, but first we want to rework the soil.

My husband does not want to part with Distant Drums yet, and I want to hold onto Sharifa Asma.

I am anxious to look at your list..
Sammy

Carol, sweet pest, I would not have you behave any differently. I can always rely on your observations. I know the exceptions always defy the rules. That's what makes roses and gardening such a challenge. I never recommend planting a rose in less than full sun and yet here I have done it!

Gean, thanks for the link. I had not seen this one; it is more recent than other studies and Oregon seems to be doing most with eradicating this pest. The problem with pyrethins is they are not as strictly tested as synthics by the Dept. of Agri. Although they are derived mostly from natural sources, they are lethal to some beneficials under the right circumstances. The book "The Truth About Organic Gardening" was pretty hard on them. One of the two ingredients in Bayer's Tree & Shrub insecticide is a pyrethin. Sadly, the beneficial nemotodes were not very effective. I wonder if their effect would increase in later years. Organic methods tend to be very slow.

Sammy, in the words of Billy Jean King (I think) "Keep on Trucking". My sp list so far is Hot Cocoa, L'Aimant and Louise Odey. That's effective within the next 2 weeks. Next spring may bring more to the list.

Thanks all of you for your support.
Barbara

Gean, I forgot to respond to you question about snipping off rose buds. Oddly enough, most of my midge is in new growth before the buds form. I have snipped off suspicious buds (those that are bent over). But, for example, in the case of Stanwell Perpetual who seems to be loved dearly by midge, I have kept his new growth practically snipped to nil. When I see three or more crispy ends, I snip all new growth at that time, hoping to capture midge eggs before they hatch. It has worked to some degree because he now has several blooms. I have done this with other roses as well, snipped all new growth when fried ends appear. Felicite Parmentier and Queen of Denmark are still very short because of this. I have done the same to all the remaining roses as well. Some roses just don't show much sign of midge invasion, like the polys. Still if I see even one on these, all new growth come off. This happens at least 2 or 3 times a week and still I have midge. UGG!

Barbara

Barbara, that's how 'Thomas Affleck' does in my garden too.
He stays remarkably blackspot-free until late summer, when he typically loses about 40% of his leaves (no spraying).
That works fine for me, I'm fairly tolerant of some blackspot/defoliation, as long as the bush continues to produce attractive blooms, and is mannerly. TA is definitely mannerly for me. Mine is a big boy too ... about seven feet tall.

Randy

My baron girod is naked now and just starting to get some new leaves at the top. It is definitely the worst rose here for that. Just hips and sticks.lol. The cleanest roses i have are mf hybrids. But i suppose that technically encompasses many classes also.lol.

Thanks, Randy. Does TA refoliate for you in the cooler weather of fall?

Len511, I wish my other HMs did as well as Cornelia and Buff Beauty. I suspect Danae, Prosperity, Erfurt & Penelope will bite the dust soon.

Barbara

Cornelia has never been happy here -- tho it is wonderful in other places.
I think we may sacrifice it this fall, and give it to someone who can give
it a better home.

Buff Beauty grew well here, long ago, and we're now trying again with a
new own-root plant.

Back when we had it the first time, we took a huge spray of Buff Beauty to
an ARS Rose Show.
Everyone who saw it wanted to learn more about "that new Austin."

Jeri

Jeri, that's a hoot!

Barbara

Give the garden a chance to mature as Jeri said. Its common for some roses to drop all their leaves, then come back just fine to bloom again. Others go into a death spiral with that situation. It probably looks worst in a monoculture rose bed. I also think that is the worst situation for disease spread. So in my no spray garden, I try to treat the roses like a garden plant/shrub integrated into the landcape. If nothing else, its not as noticeable.

bb, i have 3 buff beauty, a penelope, not as vigorous.
the felicia i have must be a climber, it has done better than i would have anticipated, just planted this spring and a while back sent up a 6' cane, just one.lol. don't have the other ones but almost got cornelia and danae, but there are so many roses i almost bought or maybe yet to get, so that doesn't mean much, but the mf and wichurana ramblers seem to be the least affected.

Jeri, that's a hoot!
Barbara

*** So was the look on the faces, when we told them that this particular "English"
Rose dated to 1939!

BTW -- When you look at your roses for disease-resistance, it's also smart to
consider how they do over a reasonably long arch of time.
We have had more than a month of strange WARM foggy days here, when the normal
August weather would be warm, but fairly dry.
As a consequence, I can see hints of mildew on many roses which never,
normally, mildew.

Jeri

Jeri

JBCarr, I could not agree with you more about monoculture and especially with roses. I'm learning more about gardening than about roses although they will always be my first love. They shine much more when planted amoung other plants rather than with other roses. As I change my gardening habits, I'm keeping this in mind and replacing these monocultures with different shrubs. Just my opinion on gardening, no judgment call.

I'm reminded of the story of Mrs. Wilmont's Ghost. Seems Mrs. Ellen (?) Wilmont, a gardener of some repute, was asked by many to come evaluate their gardens. Her assessment was almost always, not enough contrast, not enough diversity. A few weeks after her visit, the gardener noticed a number of sea hollies (a course looking, prickly perennial) sprouting in the bare spots in their garden. Mrs. Wilmont often carried seeds of this plant in her pocket to "help with the contrast and diversity."

Len511, I wish my Felicia was doing well. She is bare caned; not pretty at all. Good luck! I hope yours continues to do well. And my Felicia is prone to sending up those long canes, but is too broad to be a climber.

Jeri, I suspect weather is the greatest most uncontrollable factor in any garden. We've had years with drought but this year we've had above average rainfall, except for a dry August. Now, with all the hurricanes, our weather has turned wet again. Still, there is very little mildew compared to the last two years. I think most of the roses are going through "withdrawal" from chemical dependency. Some I know will never recover. I can only wait and see.

Barbara

Hi, Barbara; I wanted to share my first year successes w/ you all: Reve d'Or, Fields of the Wood, Royal William, Dame de Coeur, Illusion, Sunset Celebration, Red Cascade and Martha Gonzales. Others had some BS but not severe- Westerland, Ginger Syllabub, and Chrysler Imperial. Raven was the worst hit but has nice new leaves now. Playboy has also suffered. NO Spray. My biggest problem is something eating the leaves, and I just found out today, it is small brown grasshoppers. I wonder if insecticidal soap would do any good?
Good luck w/ your no spray garden, Barbara. There are roses that don't need spraying. Brandy