Ebby...bet you never heard of that one... Well I received it two years ago. I didn't order it but it came. I called the vendor and was sent a replacement for Julia Child and told to keep Ebby. It was even labeled Ebby...cant figure how they goofed??
So if you look on help me find...it looks like a deep yellow shrub rose. Not this Ebby. It is a yellow tan. The blooms are about 2" across. No fragrance. Constantly in bloom. Bush is about 3 x 3. Last summer I planted a plum and beige colored dahlia on each side of it. Must say that helped with the color. A little anyhoo.
Since I almost never shovel prune I'll have to find a spot for it which works or something.
Jeannie

well hey, Jeanie - you and me both as regards the getting rid business. Can't decide whether it is meanness or wimpiness - I only cull when disease demands it. I am however, filled with admiration for the fervent diggers such as Ingrid (sorry, my dear, your name always comes up when I think of rose removal) - such ruthlessness, such decisiveness, such vision. I can rub along with dullards (Jaques Cartier, Honorine de Brabant)for years by sinply narrowing my eyes and squinting - which is why my garden will always be a bit of a mish-mash of clash and eyestrain.

I am loath to shovel prune. You could almost call my garden "The Home for the Mis-Begotten" There are a number of roses that I feel sorry for as if it could be that no one else would give them a home. Often my patience with them is rewarded.

It really bugs me that this bugs me. The rose is doing nothing wrong except it has the audacity to be pink for so long into fall. That shade of pink and yellow orange set my teeth on edge every time I saw it. I left the blooms on just to see if it would continue to bug me Maybe I'd grow used to it, learn to ignore it. Maybe the foliage would turn yellow - haven't you heard that fall is here and winter approacheth? Why are you still wearing that summer dress? Hurting my eyes, indeed, Kim.

Poor rose, it performed as advertised. I'm the one that is fickle and is now placing other demands on it. Oh, I didn't know you would be pink for so long.

Well I'm usually one with the rest of you on ditching a living rose. Shovel pruning is torturous for me. But I did get rid of my YAWN rose this year. Gave it away to a friend who doesn't care what they look like as long as they bloom. Mine was Winner's Circle. It was so boring it made my Knock Out look gorgeous! Seemed to be fairly healthy and bloomed constantly but the flowers were a dead, grayish, flat red and had no form of any kind that I could see. Petals didn't drop cleanly either so there were always hips with half shriveled up petals dangling from them. Ugly, messy, angular growth habit too. Good riddance!

campanula, no offense taken; we must call a spade a spade. In my case honesty compels me to admit that it's been used almost as often to take a rose out of the ground as to put one in. As a result, though, I'm the darling of old rose nurseries on the west coast, and have achieved name recognition with all of them. The skeletons of the discarded roses also have the vital function of providing a ring of thorns around the new baby roses I've had to buy to replace the old ones. The rabbits and other rodents would otherwise eat them and I'd have to buy even more roses!

Ingrid

I find most of my roses tolerable. We have enough land that I can ignore the ones that disappoint.

But, in my life, there is one rose bush that I loathe. It's not on my property. It's on the road that we take off the main road to get to our place and it is there, every time we drive out. Because of the line of sight from the road, I see the damned thing every time I drive out.

I don't know what it was, I only know that it's Dr. Huey now. It's one of the least healthy Dr. Hueys in east Tennessee (one among tens of thousands). Come May, it is leafless. Come midMay there are about twenty blooms on it that last for maybe four days. Then it goes through its grow leaves/drop leaves from fungal problems do-loop that lasts until January. Two months of rest and it starts over.

Such a good location for a rose. Such a wasted potential. The folks who live there in a rental property don't care for it. The owner (goes by the name "Toad") doesn't care for it. It will not die. Nor will it thrive. It mearly exists.

Congratulations! You see the "Official Rose of Los Angeles"! Kim

Kim -- Go to Las Vegas some time in the spring (April was prime-time, when I saw it) and drive up and down the older residential streets.
The whole place is rank with Dr. Huey -- effusive in his overwhelming massiveness. Climbing, draping, fountaining, and completely covered with bloom.

I am POSITIVE that Huey is the Official Rose of the City of Las Vegas.
===================

A rose which was abundantly healthy here, and never out of bloom was 'City of San Francisco.' The blooms were the exact glowing shade of red of a stop-light. On the hillside, it collected every bright ray of sun and reflected it back like a mirror. It was blinding. It is gone.
BORING to me is the shade of pink of 'Sexy Rexy.' HE does not grow here.
Almost as boring is the orangey-pink color of 'Paul Bocuse,' but I'm learning to love him for his dependable repeat and perfect foliage.

Jeri

eeeww, Sexy Rexy - how I agree that this is the epitome of drear - not only is it that sugary pink, it has the most plastic symmetry - looks weirdly false.
Aaah, 'home for the misbegotten' - hey at least it is roses and not stray cats, rescued donkeys, wakeful hedgehogs or lost teenagers - unfortunately, I speak from (grim) experience.

I think the good Dr. is probably the Official Rose of a great deal of the USA. It grows like weeds everywhere around here too. As a matter of fact I found a cane of it sticking out of the ground this past week where my Dublin Bay died last year. Everything else in the garden is pretty much toast and here's this one dumb rose cane sticking up bright Christmas green! That's why I saw it. The columbine I'd planted there after the rose died (too much shade for a rose, well, except for HIM) had shriveled up to reveal it. It will be duly yanked!

Ann, I agree with harborrose, dig up that offender and plant something you love! It doesn't appear the renter or the land lord will care and you'll have a much prettier vista to appreciate on your drives in and out. Pick something pretty, hardy and healthy that will thrive there. I'll bet there are lots of things that would do well and be lovely in that spot.

And, make sure it is resistant to RRD, if there is such a thing. Kim

Mine is Francois Rabelais. It's an incredibly healthy plant in my garden and puts out lots of blooms that do not crisp in my high summer heat, but the blooms are a boring, boring red. It's simply a rose that does not call my name, but it's almost impossible for me to shovel prune a healthy plant that is a good performer.

I inherited a Tropicana when I purchased this house. I do not like orange or coral roses. My Tropicana is so dang healthy I am going to have to learn to live with it. It's probably been there since the rose was introduced in the 60s. I'll never be able to dig it up.

I don't have any problems shovel pruning roses that crisp in a few hours or the blooms do not age well on the plant or the rose just doesn't like my climate but is beautiful in other climates.

Unfortunately neither Francois Rabelais nor Tropicana has any of those problems.

btw, Kim, Margo Koster is almost gone. It was the only rose I did not cage out in front and the deer have been working dligently to destroy the plant.

Smiles,
Lyn

Those colors together, I would expect to give the deer terminal indigestion, Lyn. Congratulations! There was (might still be) a mountain of Cl. Margot Koster at The Huntington to the right of the north exit to the parking lot. Every time I'd leave and catch full sight of that atrocity, I would groan and my gut would ache. Kim

Margot Koster is bad enough as a shrub -- I don't want to contemplate it as a climber!

Jeri

(Mind, I rather like some of the paler Kosters -- they just don't like my garden.)

harborrose, Surely someone you know might be willing to take the Gartendirector off your hands? Silent auction? Relative in a private school, perhaps? Fund-raisers are always looking for items for auction.

I rather liked the Gartendirctor; what I found insipid was Cottage Rose, and I never have cared for Margot Koster.

That really is a good idea, Gean. Surely your rose society, school, church, someone would want it. I completely understand what you're saying about it. It really IS a good rose in many ways. I don't care for the color, either, but I sold 17 of them at Limberlost years ago to a couple who had built their 'dream house', a new Victorian out in the Santa Susana Mountains many here will recognize from old Westerns and television shows. The site wasn't really suitable for a Victorian, but those Otto Linnes looked spectacular on their acres of white picket fences. I suggested it would look like a story book picture and they reported back that it really did.

Offer your 'great rose' to someone who has a better location for it and put something which will agree with your sensibilities there instead. Win-win. Kim

Gean, how about moving GOL in front of your white garage? When I had him, I loved his bold pink color, but he now lives in a more acidic garden.

(Hopefully, everyone can recognize dry humor. Don't want to cause a war.)

And hey, Ingrid is only playing with the hand she was dealt, as am I. Not everyone (though very few, apparently) lives in rose heaven, i.e., GB, PNW and non-desert CA. We can't help it if the folks who label roses as disease-resistant, drought-tolerant, etc. live in climate-controlled areas. And poor Ingrid! There is no designation for blast-furnace-resistant, so how was she to know in advance which ones would become crispy critters.

The folks (the hybridizers?) who did the labeling cost us a lot of money. Silly me, didn't know that disease-resistant does not mean black spot resistant. I guess I should have read the fine print. I guess it's gardener beware. Before we put the first shovel in the ground we should have known ALL of our own gardening conditions including soil pH, water retentiveness, water drainage, and climate as well as the gardening conditions of those offering rose recommendations in addition to the preferences of certain species roses in a rose's lineage. Of course, none of that is possible for the novice rose gardener and sometimes not even for the seasoned one. So some of us have to do what we have to do in order to keep our gardens viable and pleasing, and that's not even counting aesthetics. We fall in love, and then after lavishing love and nutrients upon these plants, we get spurned. With broken hearts we do the digging. This is not a topic for jokes. We have feelings, too, and pretty soon we'll have poor self-images. So go easy on us fervent diggers. We're single-handedly propping up this stinky economy and the specialty rose nurseries despite not having 47 acres or a quarter acre to garden on or to make into a refuge for abandoned (read poor performing) and deprived (read ungrateful) roses. We care deeply, too. Perhaps too deeply. Just picture Ingrid living with the skeletons of those past roses still in her garden. Can you calculate the emotional toll that is taking on her? I think not. So be kind to the diggers of the world. We are simply choosing not to yawn and grit. :))

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Nastarana -- I also found Cottage Rose to be unutterably boring.
It grew.
It bloomed.
It didn't have disease problems.

But it just left me cold, and DH felt the same way.

Jeri

This is a very interesting thread.
I'm one of the tolerant/wimpy crowd, blessed with plenty of land: if a rose performs awfuly, it gets moved into an obscure part of the garden. But you were talking about healthy, boring, tiresome roses. I've been lucky not to buy too many roses that I find unbearably dull or otherwise offensive in all circumstances. I think a lot of it is placement. I have a nameless reblooming rambler-ish rose, for example. It has clear pink 2 inch blooms and lettuce green foliage, no particular fragrance, and is a healthy tough plant. It could easily be boring. As it happened I planted it beside an eleagnus with soft yellow variegation and trained it through the shrub. I thought the rose was going to have white blooms or I wouldn't have done it, but as it turns out the whole thing looks good, especially the foliage contrast. In a rose bed I think it would have been an uninteresting rose.
Some roses are dull a good deal of the time but then show their virtues at critical moments. My 'Bonica' is like this. I had one plant of it growing amidst once-blooming old roses where it looked thoroughly out of place, and finally got my husband to move it and planted a suitable replacement. But there's another one in a mixed bed. Most of the time those clear pink blooms don't do much for me (it's the same color as my mystery rambler), and the plant looks ugly by the end of the growing season. But there's this time in the fall when most of the roses aren't doing much, and 'Bonica' manages a clear pink flush while the bright orange hips from a previous flowering are still on the plant. It's a cheerful sight in a dull time, and it redeems 'Bonica' for me for the whole year.
Melissa

Sherry, you're a sweetheart and I know you understand difficult growing conditions. I well remember seeing a picture of your "soil" and being shocked by seeing nothing but white sand. I can't believe how difficult it must be to enrich the ground enough to grow the gorgeous plants you have. Even so, not every rose did well for you and you also had to resort to the "grow and throw" method at times. I strongly believe that the end results are worth it for us. It doesn't work for everyone, and I can understand campanula and others who are more tenderhearted. I honestly can't remember too many roses that I got rid of because they bored me (although Tamora might have been one).

It's interesting in how we all have different tastes. Several people have mentioned how Cottage Rose bores them and yet it's a rose I'm quite fond of. I wonder if climate has an effect on its appearance or it's just personal preference. Most fluffy pink roses appeal to me and it does well in the heat, which makes it a winner for me.

My biggest problem rose is Westside Rose Cream Tea, an otherwise admirable rose, whose blooms inexplicably are an ugly, shapeless, grayish mess for the greater part of the year. Right now they look great because it's very cool, but even when it's only warm and not hot the blooms are simply awful. I keep hoping time will somehow take care of the problem, especially since no one else here has mentioned this defect. It's the only tea rose I have that does this.

Ingrid

Goodness, there's a lot of hostility out there.

I agree it is hard to dig up and trash a perfectly good rose except for that, you know, one thing you hate about it.

I also agree with Melissa about placement - Kim talked about placement too in the thread on polys. We all think about that. I was just floored though to realize this fall that the garden I make has to mesh with the fall color of the trees that surround me. Those trees are the dominant landscape element.

And the dominant fall color is yellow and orange. The spring and early summer pinks are great with the coming-of-age greens, but somehow that hot pink that refuses to quit... But really, wanting to dig up a rose because it insists on blooming? That's wacky. See I'm double minded about this. I needed a kick in the pants from Sherry to set me straight!

I can only say the garden is very small. My home and yard are on a thumbprint in a forest on the edge of a cliff. The septic drain field takes up most of the yard, and I garden along the edges of it. I have no place to banish a rose from sight.

As it stands now, Otto's been granted a reprieve and will be sent to the kingdom of pots as there is no Great Land Mass in which to hide him. He will either be relocated to the gravel pit veg garden next summer or be auctioned off at the local rose auction this fall. He has both Nastarana and Kim to thank for this.

Sherry, I asked Ghislaine de Feligonde and Madame Alfred Carriere what they thought about Otto taking up residence in the patchy area of sun they inhabit on the front of the garage. Ghislaine sniffed and said something catty about hot pink. MAC just winced and muttered something about blue hydrangeas and purple clematis being more than enough color, thank you very much. So probably no go with that, but thanks anyway.

Well, this has been very entertaining, and I do thank you all very much for your comments.

No hostility here, dear friend. That's why I prefaced with the dry humor comment. And I was absolutely not trying to set you straight - no need. It was late, and I was just expressing my observations from almost five years out (I guess in a not-so humorous way.) I'd love to see a photo since empathy is not my strong suit, but if you show me, I'll understand better.

Truly I believe HMF is wonderful and an invaluable, irreplaceable asset, but the disease-resistant thing was a broadside I did not foresee. So I just wanted to get it said for other newish rosarians who garden in the humid east and south. "Disease" could mean powdery mildew and/or rust - not black spot so be on guard.

Gean, I always thought I would hate orange with all of my pinks and other pastels until some mis-labeled daylilies bloomed a very loud deep gold, i.e., orange. At first I was greatly dismayed, but then I was enthralled by the pop they provided in the garden with pink all around. It is an amazing effect that I love and led me to buy more golds and oranges to scatter throughout the rose beds. (This probably does not relate with your reverse situation of pink in the middle of oranges/yellows.) We don't get much fall color. Leaves are either green or brown in my yard, so I can not picture the garishness that you see in your garden. Don't know what to suggest except to wait for GOL to get big (here it's a climber) and let him show off and add cheer to your fall landscape. Here we love him, but then this is Florida where gaudy is accepted.

BTW, I have had a few that bored me. One was 'Old Blush'. I hated to remove it because I loved the idea of having that Stud Rose in my garden, but it was such a blah thing with very few petals and not much bloom. Perhaps its young age and being under-watered was the cause. But for sure I can't grow them all, so that's that.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

And yet, Sherry, Old Blush (which is a mildewy mess here) is the most amazing sight, in TX. Location Location Location???

I think we've been propagandized for decades to believe that there are good roses or bad roses, but a good rose is a good rose no matter where you garden. It just ain't true. And y'know, I think that's a good thing. It contributes to diversity.

And isn't it the same thing with likes and dislikes?
It's a GREAT thing that we don't all like the same thing.

I just went down and picked a BIG bouquet, mostly of 'Mme Berkeley.' Despite our recent violent windstorms, she is covered with enough bloom that picking didn't make a dent in the show. I LOVE that rose, but I know not everyone does. And that's OK, too.

Jeri

You know Gean, the answer we all SHOULD have given you was to cut down those "offensive trees" so GOL could do what he wants for your pleasure. BTW, I've forwarded the suggestion that disease resistance ratings be looked at to determine how feasible it is to include zones or locations so they can be evaluated by users. We'll see how easily and cost effectively that can be accomplished, but it DOES make all the difference in the world.

I'd read in the early 80s how indispensable Thomas' Rose Trilogy was to knowing, growing and appreciating roses. The only source at that time was Bell's Book Store in Palo Alto, Ca. "Rose Mecca" as it was referred to. It was! I dropped a bundle there and still have every book I bought there. Thomas knew much and offered his opinions without any reference to climate specificity. What mistakes I made based on his recommendations! I learned much from the MANY roses I murdered. But, I DID learn..a LOT, from those mistakes and experiments. I found that while I MIGHT be able to get something unsuitable for where I was to grow, it would never approximate what it SHOULD be where it is happy. I also found that while I could get some things to grow and even flower for me, the efforts just weren't worth it with all the marvelous roses begging to grow without much of my effort. Humans do seem to learn best from fouling up. Perhaps, I shouldn't suggest ratings be zone qualified? (just kidding!) Kim

No hostility here either, and I didn't detect any, unless it was thought that it was coming from me. Nothing could be further from what I meant. I embrace the fact that we garden in different ways based on our climates and likes and dislikes, and on our personal propensities. Some of us will shovel prune without much regret and others can barely bring themselves to do it. Neither way is wrong, because if it works for you it's right. Thankfully no one can order us to garden in a certain way (I would die if I had to grow hundreds of rows of vegetables with military precision and couldn't have a single rose). That's one of the things I love about gardening, that we're given a canvas that we can paint on, and paint over, and doodle, and erase, and exercise our creative impulses to our hearts' content. And, like a painting, every garden will be different and wonderfully unique.

Ingrid

"Goodness there's a lot of hostility out there"

no, no, no, Sherry and Ingrid - I meant hostility to roses that take up space and are perfectly acceptable except for that ONE THING. I think the hostility for those of us in the tolerant camp lies quietly, though; I am surprised though there is so much of it as I usually only hear of complaining at too much disease or lack of blooming. I think I might be hostile towards myself at being such a wimp. I took your comments really as a reminder that it's okay to dislike a perfectly good rose if I don't like it. See what I mean about being a wimp??

Kim, I am glad you did that as often I read the comments on hmf and then try to find out where in the heck those people live, and there is no answer.

"This rose gets mildew at the drop of a hat" submitted by anonymous 8888999 no garden location listed. I can get hostile at that!

Jeri, I planted Madame Berkeley last summer. Maybe one day she will be three feet tall for me. There's location, and then there is intractable stubbornness...

I wonder if Cottage Rose might have a possible future as an inoffensive, healthy landscaping alternative to KO. Nothing against KO, or Iceberg, for that matter, they are sort of like Stella d'Oro, one does see them everywhere. CR does have prettier flowers, and the color could hardly offend anyone.

Great thread. I am still an amateur, learning a lot from all of you. I was in LA over the weekend and I saw these white roses almost everywhere. Must say they looked beautiful. I was told they are called carpet roses.

So funny because I loved my Margo Koster but she didn't winter for me. I was thinking of trying her again but now I'm not so sure. Are some of the other Koster clan better?

Wonderful post. Two related threads intertwining: the "boring rose" and do you shovel prune or not?

Mine was Clotilde Soupert. The foliage tended to get chlorosis from time to time but was otherwise healthy. Pretty, fragrant, bloomed regularly even in part shade. But I just couldn't warm to it. And that was the second time around. I gave it away again.

The "danger" of this forum is that everyone is such a good enabler that I admit I let myself be suckered into trying a rose a second, even a third time, even though I don't remember being wowed by it the first time.

I prefer to find a new home for plants I don't want anymore. But I'm running out of takers, and the last time I felt the need to do a "great purge" I'll admit I chopped them up and tossed them.

It's easier to justify it to myself when the plant is disease prone, refuses to bloom or rebloom, or the fragrance that was rated as Intense or Strong by EVERY source turns out to be next to nothing to my nose. Just like harborrose, it's harder when the rose doesn't have any major fault to speak of.

I think, though, that it is great we all have our own individual likes and dislikes, and I love when this sort of thread comes around. The danger is that someone will be offended that someone else doesn't like their favorite rose. I've never felt that way, and it's good to see everyone enjoying this post.

Dr. Huey is a "favorite" here in southern Louisiana, too. I discovered it accidentally one Spring a couple years ago, riding around in an older part of town, wondering what that arching, dark red rose was that everyone was growing or sharing. I stopped to visit a friend and was surprised to see that arching, dark red rose growing in a spot where Angel Face had been planted. Then I realized--rootstock! Sadly, I wonder how many people keep it because they believe so-and-so planted THAT rose so many years ago. And in a way, I guess so-and-so did, but in another way--they didn't.

ibheri, there is a White Flower Carpet which has been rather extensively used in these parts. If the plants you saw were taller than a foot and a half, they were Iceberg. There must be a billion or more here in California. It's the one rose mow/blow/gowers can't kill and which will repeat its flowering in six weeks after a deer mows it down. They're planted EVERYWHERE because here, they just work. The link is to a photo of a yard I drove past last summer in the neighborhood. What else could you plant that will perform so incredibly well, at least in this climate? Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Iceberg and Brilliant Pink Iceberg

Bellegallica, now that you mention Clotilde Soupert's chlorotic leaves, it makes me think my two are a little chlorotic, too. I think I've been in denial about her, preferring to believe that she's just cycling. I love her and will not SP them, so I better get some iron and sulfur on her. She is normally so green or rather used to be. And you don't offend me either. I just counted up my "gone" roses. There are 89, including a half dozen or so duplicates, so I could offend a lot of people. Your term, 'great purge', is something I'm familiar with.

Kim, that's a gorgeous rose display. I'd have a yard full of Icebergs, too, if they looked like that here. I had an Iceberg on Fortuniana (double investment!). I determined early in the second spring that she had to go due to awful BS, and then she started blooming. Wow! Such beautiful white clusters of big flowers. And such beautiful spring foliage. So I waited for her to finish before getting the shovel. She had already lost more than half of her leaves by then. I just put her out of her misery. I also had Burgundy Iceberg. I absolutely adored its colors - darker reverse if I remember that looked like satin ribbon fluttering in the breeze. It quickly defoliated completely and never came back.

I, too, like this thread. It's like old times.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

There was a dark red brick house in Los Angeles' toney Hancock Park area, with a pathway that ran boringly straight (but for a bit of a rise) from the sidewalk to the front porch. The pathway was SOLIDLY lined on both sides by closely-planted Icebergs. It was enough to take your breath away. The perfect rose, in the perfect place, perfectly maintained.

In Southern California, Iceberg, used well, really can take your breath away. In the right usage, in our conditions, you simply can't beat it.

Jeri

Seil, I grow White Koster and she's good here. It's the terminal chlorosis and the TERRIBLE color of Margot, combined with those flowers which never open, nor fall once completely exhausted, that sicken me. I don't care for the dull color of Mothersday nor the artificial color of Fathersday, though I DO like orange roses. Stick with the pink to white tones and they'll probably look better than these. I'd think they should be cold hardy enough for you once established. Kim

And I really do like 'Lady Reading,' which is much the same sort of rose.

OH! And Orleans Rose!
I lost that, but I loved it.

Jeri

I really like Margot Koster. I guess it depends on what you have with it.

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That, and whether your soil and climate can make her happy. She is obviously NOT happy with alkalinity. Yours is beautiful, Jackie. Happy Holidays! Kim

Thanks and happy holidays to you too Kim.

Jackie

Jackie, your Margo and garden are beautiful. No yawning or gritting there! Merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone!

I read somewhere that Icebergs are the Knock Outs for California because they're so much healthier than KO is there. I do have Brilliant Pink Iceberg and it is stunning when it's in full bloom. All of the Icebergs do spot here though. But then so does KO!

See! That's the color I remember my Margo K being and I loved it! Maybe she just needs our cooler weather to bring out the colors. And I have no recollection of her ever balling here. As for hanging on petals I'm such a dead heading freak that would never be a problem, lol. Now I did have La Marne as well and that was a much more muted pink and white all the time. But I like that look too so I liked her as well. Gorgeous, Jackie!

Harborrose, I understand you completely. Many times in my gardening life I came across roses which did nothing to my soul. Eventually I made a decision to grow only roses that really cause me at certain momeents to catch my breath. I don't expect them to be in constant bloom, but there should be a time (can be as brief as one day in a whole season) when you look at a rose plant or single bloom and feel - WOW. There are other roses that can bloom and bloom and be healthy , but they never make you feel speachless and weak in your knees, even though they do provide reliable color in the garden. I prefer to grow roses from the first category. This is the reason why I have so many once bloomers. WOW factor with ramblers, albas, gallicas, early oriental yellows is basically garanteeed to you in this case.
I also noticed that roses with "flat" color are not touching me the same way as roses with more complex color shades . Sexy Rexy is one of these "flat" roses. I gave it away as soon as I saw first blooms.
Olga

"Sexy Rexy is one of these "flat" roses. I gave it away as soon as I saw first blooms." Olga

I've never really had an explanation of why that rose left me cold. You have clarified that. Thank you.

Jeri

Sexy Rexy can be a great garden and cut rose, but it is "flat". Nearly artificial looking. I grew it way back when and though I enjoyed using it as a cut flower, I replaced it with older HTs I'd read of and wanted to try. Not to disparage it as a garden plant, as there was NOTHING wrong with it for garden color or vase use, but it really didn't "speak" to me, nor touch my soul. Kim

Thank you, Olga, that expresses how I feel. It's much the same thing that Melissa said when talking about Bonica's redeeming value at that one point.

I found nothing in Otto that spoke to me or made me value it during the spring or summer and then hostility toward it set it when it continued its hot pink blandness into the fall when the yellows and oranges in the trees were like a fire inside of me. How dare you, I thought.

I think that's why I fell in love with tea roses when I started visiting the Antique Rose forum. I'd gotten to the point where the Austins were starting to look the same to me (another pink) and here were these gorgeous watercolor looking roses with all these beautiful shades in them! That's when I got Clementina, Baronne Henrietta, Madamoiselle Franziska, and Georgetown Tea. They live in pots and I drag them in and out of the unattached, unheated garage each year, but they're worth it.

I still love my Austins and they seem to be coming out with those wow colors. Can't wait to get Lady of Shalott.
: )

Thanks, Olga! You expressed exactly why I grow old roses--because they are so breath-takingly lovely, and a couple of weeks of beauty is worth months of healthy bright uninteresting bloom. Beauty doesn't consist of "more".

Why do I love tea roses, let me count the ways,

the nodding necks
the silky petals
the indomitable spirits of roses that will grow to 8 feet and beyond in warmth and sun, in climates they love
abundance of bloom
healthy foliage

I'll add watercolored faces to the list, Jackie. I know what you mean, I love them too. I have their feet in dirt, but I would haul them in pots too, if that is what it will take.

Thanks for posting, everyone. Kim and Jeri, thank you for your constancy of encouragement and sharing your knowledge and love of roses. It means much to many of us here.

Why, thank you, Gean. You're very welcome! Merry Christmas! Kim