I'm not Anita, nor do I know anything about the Sacramento Cemetery rebar arches...but, I have developed an approach for rebar arches that pleases me very much.

I had the steel people cut a piece of pipe (with a diameter large enough to accomodate the rebar) into 5 ft pieces. These I drive into the ground about 2.5 ft. I then had the rebar bent by the steel people into a 5 ft diameter (I suppose 6 ft would be better). Then I just criss=crossed two rebar arches into 4 sunken pieces of pipe. It worked well for me.

Robert

Robert, how tall is your 5' wide arch in this configuration. I need one 6' wide and was wondering if a 20' piece of rebar will give me enough height. (My calculus is weak.)

Thanks.

Sherry

Thank you Robert. That is exactly what I am planning to do, but I am not sure how long the conduit (pipe) should be. Also, if the rebar is bent to a 5 foot diameter, does this mean that the ends of the rebar that go into the pipe are 5 feet apart? Or maybe a better way to put it would be are the pipes that receive the rebar 5 feet apart when the rebar is bent to a 5 foot diameter? It sounds like the conduit should be about 5 feet so that 2.5 feet is above ground. Is that about right?

Hi!
We just put in a few more rebar arches. Two are freestanding, with two pieces crossed and huge roses trained around them. The other is over a path.

We use 1/2" rebar and 1/2" conduit. It's very easy to cut conduit with a hacksaw (particularly if you have a Sheriff's Crew to do it for you!). The conduit comes in 10' lengths. I tried to economize and cut it into three pieces, but two 5' lengths are better. We sunk them into the ground about two feet. Rebar comes in 20' lengths and bends without any special equipment (at least, if you have the crew - where are they when I need them at home???). The crew just put one end into the conduit, then bent the rebar and put the other end in. We tied in the middle with wire. On our old structures, they wrapped wire around the rebar and conduit to try to make it more secure, and also crimped the conduit. We crimped, with the guys banging away at it with a hammer. There's got to be a better tool to use. I don't know that it's necessary to do anything to attach the conduit and rebar - seems to me it isn't going anywhere - but the men thought they should do it.

I have a tendency to overthink things and make them too hard. This was really, really easy.

I'm not sure about the height and width, since my math skills aren't great, either. I can do some measuring. Our archways aren't six feet across - probably four is more like it - and most are erected in raised beds, which make them taller.

We tie the roses using cut-up pantyhose or foam-covered wire. I like the wire because you can make a figure-eight and protect the rose from rubbing against the rebar, but it's much more visible than the nylon ties. We've tried putting pieces of cut-up hose or bike innertubes or tires under some of the major canes to protect them, but they tend to fall off. Our roses have been growing nicely on the structures for 20 years, so any damage that we've had must be pretty minor.

Over all of the years, we've had two arches buckle in high winds. It's good to lighten up the climbers before winter comes. It's also important to tie some major canes to the structure itself, not just tie one cane to another. We had two roses blow off their arch this spring in a freak windstorm, and we found that they really weren't attached to the rebar.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need measurements.
Anita

Thank you, Anita. This is exactly the information I needed. I will have to look closely at the arch construction at the Cemetery next spring. In the meantime, I will give it my best shot. Thank you so much!
Joanne

I went through this exact same exercise while I was trying to decide what to use for the arches for the rose tunnel in my Rose Field. (I chose 3/4" rolled steel -- it's a bit more expensive than rebar, but I liked it better.) It comes in 20' lengths, too. With a 6' radius at the top, the height of the arch is just a little over 8' ... 8'3", if I remember correctly.

My pipe sleeves are 5' long, and I'm driving them about halfway into the ground. At first, I tried to drive the pipes using a hammer. My clay soil resisted and I had to hit the pipe too many times, and the top of the pipe was starting to get deformed. DH remembered that we had an old-fashioned fence post driver in the barn (one of the few useful things that the POs left us). This tool drives those pipes as slick as can be, and the tops are completely undamaged.

If it wasn't raining like crazy outside, I'd run out and get a photo for you to see what I'm talking about. I hope this helps a little.

Connie

Here is a link that might be useful: A pipe driver sort of like I'm using.

Connie--when you say '6' radius at the top,' what does this mean for the base? What I mean is if one took a linear measure from leg to leg of the rebar, would it be 6 feet? I am just trying to determine what to tell the materials supplier as to how much to bend the rebar. I think that if they bent it at a 6 foot diameter, that would leave the base at about 6 feet?

I have heavy clay soil also. I think I will take a shorter length of rebar and pound it into the ground first, pull it out, then set the pipe in the same hole. That way, it should go in a bit easier with less damage. I like that pipe driver, though. It looks very efficient. If I were putting in more than 2 arches, I would 'get me one of those.' Thanks for the help.
Joanne

Exactly. The legs are 6' apart. The sides of the arch go straight up parallel to each other for about 5' and it's topped by a semi-circle with a 6' diameter (3' radius) -- just like a great big hairpin.

If you pound a piece of rebar into the ground that far to prime the hole, I'm not sure you'll be able to get it back out to put in the pipe. A sledge hammer would do the job with fewer whacks -- I was using a regular framing hammer because I couldn't find my short sledge at the time. If the ground is soggy from rain, that would make it even easier.

That fence post driver is my new favorite tool. :)

Connie

Joanne, I wrote Anita about the arches in Jeri's bday post. They were very interesting and I still would like to know how they were constructed.

Carla

Connie, do you know if rebar will bend if heated?

Carla

Anybody have some nice detailed pictures they could share? I do better with hands on guidance, but pictures might help with the visualization part.

Sandy

DH doesn't think we can bend rebar. Do you guys bend that 20' piece yourselves, starting with one end in the pipe, bending & putting the other end in the other pipe? Need some real DIY info here.

Thanks.

Sherry

Photos? As soon as the sun comes up and DH leaves for work (taking the little guy with him) I'll run down to the garden and take some photos so you can see what I have.

20' of rebar shouldn't be that hard to bend on your own -- Robert did it with his first let of arches for his rose tunnel. I didn't do it with my own because (1) 3/4" steel is pretty tough to bend and (2) I'm a bit obsessive-compulsive when it comes to things being straight and level and plumb. I know that the roses will eventually cover the structure, but it would bother me until that happened if I bent it all crooked. Besides, if there's a way to hurt myself with something .... it's probably gonna happen to me. (says the woman with a big bruise on her foot from chipping plaster off the basement walls.)

Connie

an electric conduit bender can be used to bend rebar
or you can bend it around a tree. It is helpful to have 2 people involved in the process.

Instead of pipe in the ground, we sometimes use T-posts with the studs facing out. The rebar nestles in one of the angles of the tpost, and is pushed slightly into the ground. Wire the rebar and post together. The t post anchors the structure and gives some rigidity to the rebar.
The tpost is soon covered, but the lugs give some support to ties.

Half inch rebar will definitely bend with very little effort, but you do need two people. Our half inch rebar structures have held up some very large roses for twenty years, and I really don't think you need to go bigger. My husband drove conduit into our clay soil with a sledge hammer. He's not exactly John Henry (as the song goes, "a steel-drivin' man, Lord, Lord") so I think that just about any reasonably fit guy could do the same. I would not dig with a post hole digger and loosen the soil, unless you want to put some concrete in the hole and set the rebar. You want the conduit in there firmly.

Here are some photos of the arches with the roses being pruned and with roses covering them.

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The last photo is a giant climbing China, Phillips and Rix Pink China Climber. We took out the rose on the other side, a Climbing Queen Elizabeth, and wondered if the arch could support all that weight coming from one side. No problem. The rose now stretches all the way to the ground on the other side, and is securely supported.

You can make this harder if you want to, but this simple approach works.
Anita

My photo isn't nearly as effective as Anita's. I look forward to the day when my roses cover their arch, instead of hunkering at the bottom of it.

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The pipe sleeves are sticking 3' out of the ground, and the arch is a little less than 8' high at the center. (one down, 18 more to go.)

Hope this helps,
Connie

P.S. in case you're curious, that's Climbing Rouletii on the left and Climbing Cramoisi Superieur on the right. They're so tiny right now.

Anita and Connie--a picture is worth a thousand words; these are really helpful. Thank you so much for posting them.

Anita--is it really that easy to bend the 20 footers? If I stick one side into it's conduit sleeve and another person were to bend the other side down into the sleeve across, is that all that needs be done? Actually, my friends truck bed is only about 6 feet long, so it might be easier to let the building materials store bend them for me. They might fit into the truck more easily.
Joanne

I didn't personally bend the arches, but the guys did it really quickly. In once case, one guy forced his end, and the bend was not quite in the middle of the arch. It's not noticeable, once we tied the crossing piece together with wire. They were more careful after that and no problem.

Connie's arch looks a bit more professional, which is nice if you are putting 20 of them together in an open field. Our setting is much different.

I don't think that 3/4" or greater would bend as readily.
Anita

Connie and Anita, thank you for the images.

Carla

It is supposed to rain all weekend here, so I am going to have to postpone my arch building endeavor. I am happy we are getting rain, but I was looking forward to diving in and making these arches. Hopefully, I can do it next weekend. I have a Secret Garden Musk Climber badly in need of support. Thanks everyone for all the help with this. It seems like a fairly straight forward project, which will not cost an arm and a leg.

Happy Holidays,
Joanne

I would like to add a 20/20 hindsight caveat. When I constructed my rose tunnel of about a dozen or so arches, I used ONLY 20ft pieces of rebar (NO conduit pipe). When I redo this, I will add some conduit pipe which will provide extra height. Each end of the bended rebar (in my tunnel, not my improved rebar structures) is set almost 2 ft into the ground which takes off about 4 ft from each 20 ft piece of rebar. The result is that my arches are NOT quite tall enough, and I have to duck as I go under some of the arches now that the roses have devoured them. I did the tunnel in my VERY first spring when I just started into roses. Don't get me wrong. I adore my tunnel, and I think it is breathtaking, but I wish it had an additional 1.5-2 ft in height.

I've started making some arches identical to the one in Connie's picture (except mine are of rebar). The arch took about 10 minutes to install and cost me about $50.

I love going vertical.

Robert

Also, with conduit, one can raise the height of the rebar by drilling a bolt into conduit which will keep the rebar from sliding all the way down to the earth inside the conduit. Does this make sense?

Thanks everyone for the great information and especially the photographs, they are an enormous help.

Robert
thanks so much for the hindsight caveat. That will save much frustration.
I was also wondering about how to secure the rebar in the conduit since we are always concerned about hurricane winds and flying rebar is the last thing we'd want near houses. Perhaps concrete could be dribbled into the conduit to secure the inserted rebar? especially with the bolt idea raising the rebars depth.

Denise in Florida

Robert,
Great idea the bolt in the conduit. I was wondering what the resulting height of the 20 foot rebar arch would be and was concerned it might be a bit short. Can one buy 22 or 24 foot rebar?
Joanne

What is rolled steel?

I think I need to "hire" Robert and Connie to come here and help me. Geniuses in the garden.

Carla

I can't imagine that the rebar would be pulled out of the conduit if it is in the conduit at least 18 inches. I'd be concerned about having much less than 18" of rebar inside the conduit.

Rolled steel is a cylindrical bar of steel..rebar has the ridges.

I don't think rebar is found easily over 20 ft.

I hope this helps.

Robert

I'm wondering about a couple of things. First why is it necessary to bury the ends' Isn't rebar heavy enough? And with roses growing on them they are rooted so should keep the thing from blowing away.

Second, isn't there another material that can be used that is lighter and more easily bent. I at 81 can't imagine trying to bend the stuff. Then there are these more complicated structures that are welded. I keep wanting to wander the aisles of Lowes or similar stores looking for thinner rods, aluminum maybe. Tubes such as conduit won't bend without crimping. I guess metal workers can do it with some sort of device that keeps them from doing that.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to make a fanciful structure with a thin but yet strong material that could be bolted, glued or easily attached.

Ideas!

Jim, you make the same argument that my DH makes. I keep telling him that roses get heavy and standing up there in the wind can get blown over pretty easily. When our store-bought tubular metal arbor was blown over in strong winds - before it had a rose on it and with 2 corkscrew anchors holding it down, I think he adjusted his thinking.

I've seen arbors made of copper pipe and fittings, but I think that gets expensive.

I wish there were a less strenuous way, too.

Sherry

Jim--you can usually get the vendor from whom you buy the rebar to bend it to your specifications. That is what I am going to do. Once it is bent, one cannot pound it into the ground on its own; hence the conduit pipe. I am planning on doing this next weekend if possible, so I will report back.
Joanne

I've seen arbors made of copper pipe and fittings, but I think that gets expensive.

*** It's not so much the initial expense that's a problem, as it is the
unwelcome fact that you'll eventually come home to find the entire thing
gone, and the rose laying on the ground.
Thieves have even stolen the electrical wire that was used to support
climbing roses on tripods, in the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden.
Stolen for the scrap value of the copper wire in the middle.

Jeri

Don't use aluminum! We built a very ugly tripod of aluminum conduit, only to have it twist and bend in a wind.

We've had some very high wind in Sacramento, but aren't in hurricane country. Winds were 85mph last January, and our roses catch the brunt of the wind that roars over the top of the hill. All of the rebar structures stayed intact, even though we hadn't yet pruned the climbers and some were quite heavy. (The cemetery is on the highest ground in Sacramento, which isn't saying much - it was built there to avoid flooding, and is about the only place above ground when you look at a 200-year flood map for the area.)

As I mentioned before, we've had a couple of the arches collapse in the 20 years that they've been there, but have never had a problem with them pulling out of the conduit. Remember, we've crimped the conduit or wrapped wire around the rebar and conduit to hold it more securely, but I think the rebar wouldn't move regardless.

I also think that copper might bend and collapse - not to mention the scrap value.
Anita

Here they break into houses and steal the copper plumbing pipe. We have a lot of week-enders from NYC. One came for a visit, turned on the water and a mess.