If you see them on the side of the road, they have escaped cultivation.

Proof positive they are ending up in places they ought not be. It's as simple as that.

You can't wait for some environmental agency to tell you something's a weed because by then it's too late.

I am in the Kansas City metro area, zone 5. This tree is a zone 6 or warmer tree but I have seen several in my neighborhood that are mature. Mine would be sheltered by my 6' wooden privacy fence. Still am not sure I will plant it, wanted feedback from all of you and I sure got it. I will look into Yellowwood, hadn't heard of that one. Thanks for the suggestion. Mimosa's aren't plentiful here so not invasive. No telling where all this will end.
Tina

I'd toss it. Plant something that lives longer. That tree will probably break your heart when it goes TU all of a sudden.

"If you see them on the side of the road, they have escaped cultivation."

But there are all kinds of trees that you see (native and not) that "have escaped cultivation" and can be found growing along the side of a road or your vegetable patch. The term "weed" is a rather loose term and can refer to any tree, shrub or herb that's growing where it is not welcome. Most of the "weed" trees that I have to remove when gardening are native oaks and maples. I really do think the question of how invasive this tree is depends on where it is growing. They have probably been grown locally to some extant for decades and I just don't see where they have become a problem.

"If you see them on the side of the road, they have escaped cultivation.
Proof positive they are ending up in places they ought not be. It's as simple as that.
You can't wait for some environmental agency to tell you something's a weed because by then it's too late."

Even if we just consider non-natives, most all non-sterile non-native plants have escaped cultivation somewhere. Does that mean all exotics (or all hardy exotics) should be avoided?

If you only consider plants along the roadside, why should we single out non-natives? What makes them any more undesirable than natives?

Finding a plant species, or even a non-native plant species, present along the roadside does not at all imply that it is doing any damage to the environment. Why on earth would we want to avoid non-native plants that aren't damaging the environment? If we did, that would means there are thousands of plant species to avoid for no real reason.

"I just don't see where they have become a problem."

{{gwi:430659}}

Just because you don't see it being a problem doesn't mean it isn't becoming a problem.

I haven't seen the ice caps melting but I'll the word of those who have seen it.

If you see it on the roadsides, you can bet it's in natural areas too. Unlike the native plants that escape cultivation, mimosa has a track record of disrupting plant communities and animal habitats.

This thread on Mimosas was started by someone in zone 5 Kansas, without some accelerated global warming, Mimosa is just not going to run wild between the corn fields--it'll be lucky if it merely survives. I still think this is mainly a southern problem despite the map.

I just want to say thanks to Tina for listening and considering the comments.

Sigh...
It's a southern problem *today*.
Because years and years ago people said "oh it's not a problem here."

Learn from our mistakes.

Trowelgal, I have 2 of the hardier mimosa trees that were mentioned, they have done well, and one has bloomed. I'm in zone 5 in Portland, ME. They have only gotten minimal die-back..just a few inches at most each winter. However, if you do plant yours, I would suggest protecting it for the first couple of winters until it gets to a bigger size. I don't think you'll have to worry about it becoming invasive there because from my experience here, whatever pods form don't have time to even mature. Good luck.

Will Silk Oak Tree still bloom if kept to a height of under 10'?

Thanks!

Good morning,
No idea what silk oak trees are, sorry. Think my tree problem is over, had two really healthy Mimosas in large pots and they seem to have died over the winter unless they are super slow to show some green. However, I do have three Japanese Lilac trees I started from the sprouting of my 10 year old J.Lilac tree. Have a friend who just bought a new house without trees so one will go to her as a gift. So I am not without trees to plant.
Thanks for all your input, I enjoy a lively debate.
Tina

Did you keep the trees in pots watered?

dsieber, I had the pots sunk into my leaf compost pile and they got snowed and rained on so I let nature do that for me. I have always been told not to water perennials over the winter as it can cause the plants to awaken, put on new growth and then the new parts can die off and kill the plant. We are getting a lot of rain today. I will be keeping an eye on them, they may still be asleep. Don't know for sure. Have you wintered one over?
Tina

I've got one in a pot (2 years old) that is still dormant. The branches are still flexible, and the scratch test shows green, so I'm sure it is alive. They are late to leaf out, so keep watching.

Alex

The zone you are in and the soil will determine how fast the tree grows. My favorite tree actually. They also make an extremely beautiful blooming bonzai tree. I have one in my house that is about 3 feet tall and it blooms every season.

Thanks Alex, I will have to do a "scratch test". Never thought of doing a Mimosa as a bonsai. Bet that is really pretty.
Thanks to all for your input.
Tina

Ignore iforgotitsonevermind, he's heavily biased against this tree. He's on a mission (just look at all his posts).

That's a real nice thing to say.
How about if I said to ignore famartin because he doesn't know diddly about the problems these trees are causing?

How about if I said that iforgotitsonevermind doesn't seem to realize that this species is NOT invasive in more northerly locales?

One man's trash is another man's treasure...

But it has the potential to be.
And the mere act of purchasing them in the same continent causes them to be shipped to places where the tree is invasive which is most of the country and that range is expanding as more and more damage is found.

Sort of like buying heroin and then not using it. Even if you don't use heroin, you're still funding the taliban just by purchasing it.

If it's so barely hardy that it won't even persist then why grow it? Why even attempt it? It's not like growing something really beautiful with a lot of ornamental traits. There are alternative trees in the legume family that are hardy substitutes for similar foliage and plenty of trees with much showier blooms. It just doesn't make any sense. I gather that most people come here to get sound advice about trees and advising someone to plant something that isn't reliable or proven and/or has the potential to be invasive is just doling out your opinion. It's not sound advice.

This is getting overly ridiculous. Comparing buying, planting, or growing an Albizia julibrissin, in an area where it's not invasive, to buying and then using heroin only serves to diminish the credibility of the one who makes such a comparison.

Iforgotitsonevermind, I really like you. I appreciate your tenacity and your opinions most of the time, but you really do need to take a chill pill on this mimosa stuff! I understand that you are concerned that the true invasive potential of this species might not be fully understood, but there comes a point where too much of such a concern becomes unreasonable.

Your same argument could be used for just about any plant, because most plants have invasive potential somewhere. I think you would agree that it would be absurd to limit all plant sales and distribution to only their native area. Even shipping plants across your state might have to be limited. This argument (at least the way it is being presented) is just getting out of hand.

Oh yeah? Where's honeylocust invasive in the us?


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mimosa

honey locust



non-invasive
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fernlike foliage

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Showy fall color
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Showy blooms

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Pleasantly fragrant blooms
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X



appealing bark
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X



cold hardy in the northÂ
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X



urban tolerant

X

X



cultivars with colored leaves

X

X



cultivars with improved form
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dwarf or shrub form cultivars
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improved disease resistant cultivars
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Seedless and thornless cultivars
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Well, If we use your thought pattern related to mimosas, it has some invasive potential anywhere it's not native and has the ability to survive. So, it shouldn't be used anywere outside of it's native range (where it will either die or have some potential to become invasive).

And, BTW, the USDA's Natural Resource Conservation Service, actually does list Gleditsia triacanthos as being "weedy or invasive" in some parts of the country, and they site two confirming sources. Uh-oh. You can check out the link below if you want.

Oh, and finally, I'm not even arguing with your point that Albizia julibrissin may have invasive potential outside the range that invasiveness is currently recognized. I'm just pointing out that comparing planting one in Kansas to buying and using heroin is pretty far out of line. A calmer, clearer approach might better promote your position. The chart's a good start.

Here is a link that might be useful: USDA Natural Resource Conservation Service

I was pretty sure you were going to assume I didn't check that site first or follow the sources so having done so, I dispute that it is invasive and encourage you to find out what I did by checking those sources out.

Honeylocust has not demonstrated the kind of widespread damage that mimosa has in this country. It may have in other continents but we aren't talking about other continents.

My comparison to buying heroin was to say that by buying a mimosa, you're "funding the enemy" so to speak. Corporations in this country don't care where or what their plants do as long as they make money. We have weak, if any regulation on where invasive plants can be shipped and sold. If a whole bunch of people start buying mimosa in ohio, thanks to gardengal and the insult bunch, you can bet more and more of those are going to end up in places they have already demonstrated being a problem. I'm sorry if that was too confusing to follow.

Rather than spew a bunch of misinformation and insults or continue the losing battle of trying to explain why planting a large tree 1 foot from your foundation is bad news for your house or explain why mimosas are harming the envirnoment even if you can't see the damage happening from oregon or from ohio, then perhaps I can be of some help by suggesting an alternative tree. Enter the thornless, seedless honeylocust.
Red leaved varieties, yellow leaved varieties, dwarf varieties... there is a thornless honeylocust for everyone who is considering planting a mimosa.

That table is biased...

1) Mimosa doesn't NEED a thornless cultivar.

2) What's to improve on the Mimosa form? Most people LIKE the umbrella shape.

>there is a thornless honeylocust for everyone who is considering planting a
>mimosa.

Is there one with showy flowers for 6 weeks in midsummer?

"Oh yeah? Where's honeylocust invasive in the us?"

Then after my reference to it being considered invasive...

"I was pretty sure you were going to assume I didn't check that site first..."

"Honeylocust has not demonstrated the kind of widespread damage that mimosa has in this country."

So, it doesn't matter if the plant in question actually is invasive where it is to be planted, and only its relative invasiveness compared to Albizia julibrissin, as seen in the US, should be considered in determining its invasive potential in the location where it is to be planted? Seriously? Is that the heroin speaking?

Oh, and what's up with those "small print disclaimers"?

Iforgotitsonevermind, I hope you know I'm just messing with ya a little. (-;

{{gwi:430660}}

I took this picture yesterday because it illustrates the problems caused when people insist on playing with fire.

I have not seen mimosa blooms last 6 weeks. That sounds like a description from one of these online nurseries that sells them. The blooms really are nothing to write home about. Sure they are unique in their coloration and appearance but for goodness sakes, it's not like a royal poinciana or jacaranda. Now those are blooms worth planting for.

>I have not seen mimosa blooms last 6 weeks. That sounds like a description
>from one of these online nurseries that sells them.

Around here, Mimosa trees bloom for 6 weeks. This isn't just something I heard or read about, it's something I see every year. Not individual flowers of course, I mean an individual tree will have blossoms for 6 weeks.

>The blooms really are nothing to write home about....it's not like a royal >poinciana or jacaranda

I find the blooms attractive, and quite different than anything else around here, not to mention that they are popular with the hummingbirds. I'd plant poinciana or jacaranda if they could survive here....but in that case, they would likely have the same invasive potential as mimosa...D'OH!

Alex

Well as long as the folks up north have pretty flowers then that's all that's really important.

Sorry wildlife! The yankees gotta have their unusual flowers for 6 weeks midsummer!

Even as far north as NJ, they bloom for ~6 weeks.

Wildlife in the north is fine, since its not invasive up there.

Sorry Old Growth Forest!!! The corporations that grow mimosas wanted to make a profit. Since they were selling like hot cakes in the north, they shipped to the central and south US.
Sux to be you, forest.

"it's not like a royal poinciana or jacaranda. Now those are blooms worth planting for. "

Music person, you inadvertently shot yourself in the foot on this one. Jacaranda is considered a serious invasive in several parts of the world, including parts of South Africa and Australia.

It's fine YOU don't like the look of it, but should aesthetics really be at issue here? Corn, soy and wheat are ugly to look at yet have "invaded" large parts of the Midwest and South so that people can eat. My point being that, in the final analysis, it is the sum ecological impact of any human activity...be it having introduced mimosa into the country, or having been fruitful and multiplied, that matters. Likewise by letting the antlered rats run rampant, because we've extincted would would have been their natural predators, we are threatening native plant populations because they prefer to eat natives versus the invasive woodland plants like Lonicera. Do you have any peer reviewed citations on this species, versus, for example, Ailanthus or Paulownia? Or Kudzu? In terms of relative ecological impact? Based on my non-scientific observations and hunches, I'd guess Paulownia is more "dangerous" at least in the mid-Atlantic. I don't know how they do in the South. While Mimosas seem to cast light shade that would allow native oak seedlings to eventually over grow them, Paulownias cast very very dense shade and seem to crowd out areas more easily than mimosa ever could. Also it seems Paulownia seedlings could develop in an area of semi-open forest, while mimosa need a cleared area to really get established in large numbers. That why they seem to favor urban areas, railroad ROWs and highways. Admittedly, Paulownia seems to need or at least prefer rich, moist soil while Mimosa will take what it can get.

Jacarandas and flame trees put on a good display here in November.

{{gwi:430661}}

davidrt28
I didn't say they weren't invasive. That was kinda my point. If you're going to plant a weed, you'd think there'd be some ornamental traits worth planting for.
Chinese tallow for instance. If it weren't invasive, I'd be all over that if I lived a bit south of here.

I understand the problems with Mimosas, but still love the things. We have had several over the years and did not find them particularly invasive.

We are now trying to find Tyron, Charlotte or some other disease resistant Mimosa seeds. We live in southern Mississippi, where there is some occurance of disease. Mimosas grow wild here, but often die after a year or so.

I also live in zone 5, and planted a mimosa in my yard. it's 3 yrs old, grows and grows and am still waiting on my beautiful blooms but hasn't happened yet. haven't had seed pods either. you see one here and there here, but that's about it. The ones i see are big and beautiful full of blooms, and i keep waiting.. but hasn't happened for me. :(

I know this is an ancient thread but I just found it so it's new to me. :-)

To me, this is a perfect example of the utterly woodenheaded black & white thinking that many native plant fanatics have. I'm a certified Master Gardener here in Fairfax County, Virginia and I know some of these people. One of the speakers we had in our group told us that native plants are defined as plants that were here in 1492 when Columbus arrived.

This same speaker told us that he decided to turn his back yard into a native habitat. He removed everything and replaced it with native plants. The first year it was great. The second year it was great. The third year he ended up getting rats. I forget what it was that happened, but he figured out that because he disturbed the established environment, he had also messed with with the local ecosystem to its detriment. I found that very interesting.

If we had the same attitude about immigrants than we do about native plants, we'd be called racists. And if we kept everything out of the country except natives, there would be nothing but Native Americans here. The rest of us would be 'destroyed, double-bagged and binned.' This country was built on immigrants, and immigrants give its diversity. Likewise do plants that come from outside the US.

The nativeheads I know plant plants that are native to only some parts of the country but not to their own part. To me that's not native either. But because the plant is native somewhere in the US, it gets to wear the crown of "native" and is brought into our local area just as plants from outside the country are brought into our locaoritel area.

I don't think there's any comparison between Stinking Sumac (my fav name for Tree of Heaven) and Mimosa. Here in Virginia, Mimosa is rated moderately invasive, Stinking is rated highly invasive. I see roadsides chockablock full of Tree of Heaven. I only see Mimosa here and there.

And I'm sorry to argue with you, but there is nothing like a Mimosa. Nothing looks like it, both in its flowers and in its umbrella form. And very few trees bloom for such a long period. Yellowoods and honey locusts are beautiful trees. But again, I repeat: there is nothing like a Mimosa. They are positively stunning.

The Mimosa trees around here all bloom 6-8 weeks, and that's not from a plant vendor ad, that's from my own observations.

I also agree with the people who were saying that a plant's invasiveness depends on the zone in which it is growing.

I've seen the same arguments being made with Nandina. Nandina is apparently, from what I hear, pretty darned invasive in the south. It is not invasive at all in my part of Virginia, and is not on the Virginia Invasive Species List. Yet I hear a lot of fanatics bitching and moaning about how I need to quit growing Nandina. I just ignore them.

And by the way, it's usually the Yanks who are the biggest native fanatics.

Alexavd, I'm located a few miles south of you in PW county and I kill mimosas by the dozens annually. I'm glad you don't have a problem with it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem for others. Likewise I've removed quite a few heavenly bamboo. Again, I'm glad it hasn't been a problem for you.

Nope, not around here, but I'm closer in to DC, it's all suburbs and hardscape here. But I still think it's not right for the one person to be saying never plant it even if you live up north where it's not on any invasive lists. That was the whole point of everybody's arguments on this thread. They were saying it's not a problem in zone 5.

As far as heavenly bamboo, it's not a problem for anyone in Virginia. If it was, it would be on the invasive species list. I have a friend who heard a speaker bash it and now she's on me about getting rid of it and has no basis except the speaker bashed it. Same situation as with the Mimosa arguments above - a plant might be invasive in one state and not in another.

So you're telling me that heavenly bamboo isn't a problem for me? Rude.

Nope, didn't say that. What is a problem for you and me is individual. Native maple seedlings are a problem for me because I'm always having to pull them out in my garden like weeds. But they're not an invasive species, only an aggressive species. If you say that Nandinas are a problem for you, then they must be. But this thread is not about what is a problem for us as individuals. It's about whether the plant is in question is an invasive species harming our environment by crowding out native plants. Mimosas are on Virginia's list as moderately invasive. Nandinas are not on the list at all. They are however on the lists of some states south of us.

They do produce seedlings (not anywhere near as many as maple trees), and I pull them out just like you do. I like the plant so I grow it in spite of having to pull a few seedlings. You apparently don't want it in your yard and that's fine. You may have a variety that produces more seedlings than mine does. But no species of Nandina is on the Virginia invasive species list.

And if you want to see rude, read the entire thread above.

My "rude" comment was in response to Alex's statement As far as heavenly bamboo, it's not a problem for anyone in Virginia after I specifically said that yeah, I pull handfuls of it. Alex seems to believe that she speaks for the commonwealth which is a pretty big place. So if any Virginians are reading this thread out there in internet land, please do not plant mimosa or nandina.

I am the gardener at a forty acre historic site. Callery pear foliage has turned red so this weekend I'll be out with volunteers walking the forest edges yanking pears, mimosa, autumn olive, barberry, nandina, privet, burning bush, multiflora rose, etc seedlings. Alex won't see that so it's no problem to her. But to other caring Virginians, please don't plant these. Thank you.

Jeepers! No need to be so sensitive! I tried to explain what I was trying to say, but you just apparently really want what I said to be rude.

Once again, what I was trying to say is that it is not on the invasive species list in Virginia. That doesn't mean that some people like yourself find it to be a problem. I said that that if it's a problem for you, it's a problem for you. I guess you missed that.

I trust the Virginia invasive species list over peoples' individual experiences, because individual experiences vary. The state of Virginia evaluates the plant statewide in a standardized manner.

You also chose to ignore my comment that you and I might have different cultivars which might account for the difference in our experience. My nandinas --- and I have a hedge of 20 of them plus several more all over my property --- self sow a very small amount. If you've got 40 acres, then that's a lot of weeding of any kind of unwanted plant.

Assuming Nandina domestica is not intentionally planted on your 40 acres, then it's hard for me to believe you'd have so many seedlings because they're not travelling seeds. They're berries and self-sow almost exclusively under the plant. The birds don't eat them very much if at all, so they don't get carried. They prefer other berries and only eat them if a winter is particularly long and other berries have run out.

Mimosa, autumn olive, barberry, privet (Chinese, not Japanese), burning bush and multifora rose are all on the Virginia Invasive Species list, and I find plenty of those seedlings myself. Nandina is not on the list.

The birds issue is actually a bigger controversy with Nandina than its invasiveness in this state. I've studied that extensively and there's a lot of misinformation out there about it.

There you go again lecturing because you're a master gardener and you know it all. I never said that I was growing nandina and, yes, the seedlings pop up. Some animal is spreading them. Hydrogen cyanide which occurs naturally in the berries may contribute to songbird deaths. Few dead songbirds are ever autopsied unless there's a mass casualty event so nobody really knows. That's why gardeners have been spreading the word to avoid it. There are other evergreen shrub choices so it's irresponsible to keep nandina.

The Virginia invasive species list has no teeth - plants on the list are still widely sold in the state. Other plants should be added to the list but why bother? If you left your far northern suburb and hiked natural areas, you would find numerous other plants (typically of Asian origin) which have naturalized. I realize you won't listen to a word that I'm saying but I'm writing this for the benefit of other Virginia gardeners who may read this at some point.

You resurrected a twelve year old thread to mock environmentalists and you criticize me for being sensitive LOL. I'm finished with this topic, I shall spend my Saturday yanking the invasives your myopia doesn't see.

All manner of plants produce fruits or berries that contain hydrogen cyanide - all stone fruits (apples, cherries, almonds, etc.), cherry laurel, cotoneaster, hawthorns, elderberries - and birds consume them in vast quantities. While nandina may be invasive in some areas of the country, I doubt its impact on birds is that severe. And there are cultivars that do not produce flowers or fruit so again, no impact on birds or contributing to an invasive issue.

And it is also important to keep in mind that any invasive properties tend to be very regionally oriented.......what is considered invasive in one area of the country may be perfectly well behaved in another. Some earlier posters seem to have missed that premise entirely!!

Gardengal you took the words out of my mouth, I totally agree with every point you made. I've studied the songbird issue extensively because I would never grow a plant that would be a major contributor to songbird deaths. I also deliberately avoid growing any invasive plants, repurpose/reuse/recycle, eat sustainably, and manage a native garden at our local elementary school. Just so it's clear to certain people that I am not mocking environmentalists, but rather calling out extremists.

Cecily now you're backpedaling and focusing about the songbird issue rather than the invasivness issue, which is the issue that is subject of this post. If that's your reason for objecting to nandina, then just say it. I still stand by the facts that the seedlings are not overly high in quanity in Virginia compared to other clearly invasive plants. This is also true out in rural Warrenton where I also spend time gardening. Clearly the seedlings annoy you, so by all means pull them out and maybe figure out how they're getting onto your property so you can deal with the source.

I watch my nandinas like a hawk each year for berry consumption by birds and I never lose any berries, they continue on into the next spring and I cut them off when they start looking ratty. Same is true on my brother's property in rural Warrenton. And he has the same experience of me, a few seedlings directly under the plants, and berries that persist into the spring. So it's not an urban / rural issue.

Whether a plant in the invasive species list is still sold in the state is irrelevant to whether the list is accurate and valid. Of course commercial sellers are going to keep selling bad plants, that's what they do, human nature.

So I'm kind of done with this too because when someone is either not listening, is not comprehending, too biased to openmindedly consider what other people are saying, or actively trying to start and maintain a fight, I walk away. Have a nice Defensive Saturday!