I am also in trouble with fragrance ratings, let it be HMF or else.
So far I could not detect much fragrance on Maria Callas, nor do my husband. Same has happened with Baronne Edmond de Rothschild that I got from Palatine. It is listed as having very strong fragrance but we cannot verify that.

Both are new roses in my garden, so I hope that they get better perfumed when mature and maybe under better circumstances (like getting rain) they will bring fragrant blooms.

I think that climate and growing conditions really do affect the intensity of fragrance of any given rose cultivar. And individual noses have a lot to do with it, too. Many people on this forum have trouble detecting the classic tea fragrance of many roses, while others (myself included) find it to be one of the most delicious and refreshing of all rose perfumes.

What I am trying to say is that if a rose is not fragrant in *your* growing conditions and for *your* sense of smell, then all of the subjective catalogue and website descriptions in the world saying otherwise will not change that for you.

It is also wonderful to read about a variety that is consistently described as "not fragrant" or only "lightly fragrant" and then discover that, to your nose, it has a beautiful perfume. Case in point is the old china 'Old Blush' which to me has a very clean, sweet, strong fragrance... :-)

I've found that I have to experience the rose myself, "in person" to know if a rose is fragrant to me. All vendor websites, and HMF, are meaningless to my nose.

Examples:

Many websites say Mrs Dudley Cross has fragrance. I've grown her for years, and totally love her, but I've never detected any fragrance.

Gruss an Aachen & Pink Gruss an Aachen are said to have little fragrance by some sources. But my nose has no problem detecting it's incredible scent. In fact, the scent often wafts through my garden on the breeze.

Nur Mahal is said to be one of the least fragrant hybrid musks by some sources. But its scent is intense to my nose.

Paul Neyron is often said to be fragant by those websites. To my nose? Almost never any fragrance. On those rare occasions when I can detect it, I'm surprised.

They often say that Heritage is only mildly fragrant. Not to my nose ... it is extremely consistently scented to me. I can smell its unique scent at any time of day in any weather condition.

Randy

Madame Lombard has a tea fragrance, which, sadly, I can't smell very well. I can't smell Lady H, either. However, I can smell Mrs BR Cant, Ducher, Mlle de Sombreuil, etc.

So maybe it's just certain types of tea-scented roses that give your sniffer troubles. Either way. Mme Lombard earns a spot in my garden for it's bush full of flowers and trouble free foliage.

Elaine

Mme. Lombard is one of the best smelling teas to me. Reading Delbards book on rose scents reveals that the scent changes up to four times a day.What is fruity and rose scented at 6 in the morning is often redolent of grass and ivy (has no scent to most of us) by 4 in the afternoon. I gave three roses to my neighbor because they had no scent to my nose where upon they immediately gained some scent. I particularly resent French Lace because I really liked that rose...
Randy I loved the scent of Nur Mahal. The other thing is that Gregg Lowery has a particularly refined sense of smell and is the only person I know who can smell Duet...a nice man, but have you ever tried to sniff that exceptionally pretty rose???
la

Well-this is what i thought you would say.

Guess you just have to grow'em to know'em which is so sad for me who likes to think that A + B = C ALL THE TIME, no matter which way the wind blows. But-if results are so predictable-then there is no room for suprise-and life becomes quite boring.

So it is OK and i will stay curious. Thanks for weighing in everyone.

Fragrance is crazy. I surely cannot smell Paul Neyron, can BARELY smell Mme. Alfred Carriere most of the time, and yet, I can smell Olympiad, which to me has a gentle fruity fragrance.
I once watched a rose judge declare that Golden Celebration had no fragrance whatsoever.
Go figure.

Jeri

Vintage says that Nastarana is one of the best smelling roses in the world. I can't smell a thing. Neither can my husband. Matter of fact, nobody who has ever visited my rose garden has been able to smell it. I ask everyone because I keep looking for someone to say it is the most fragrant rose they've ever smelled.

But I'm still a sucker for their fragrance rating because it's the most important quality that a rose can have as far as I'm concerned.

And Randy, Gruss an Aachen is NOT fragrant!!! I have been on the verge of removing this rose for a couple of years now due to lack of fragrance.

Carrie

A suggestion with Nastarana is to pick it in the bud and bring it inside to bloom. It will wipe you out inside. I also cannot smell it outside but once inside, it reeks.

I second Randy regarding Gruss an Aachen's fragrance - I find its fragrance strong and delicious.

It's interesting how different our noses are! I think my nose has become more sensitive. I remember being at budeye's garden with Carla. She asked if Sombreuil is fragrant and I said no. Then we all sniffed it and suddenly I could smell it. Now when I sniff a rose I don't expect it to knock me down immediately, but give it more of a discerning, questioning whiff.
It amazes me how many roses develop their fragrance as the plant ages. Also I agree that a bloom can lose its fragrance quickly.

I've noticed that sun and heat can wipe out the fragrance of an otherwise delicious smelling rose. The best time for fragrance in my garden is in the early morning with the dew still fresh. Ahhh...dreaming of summer.

Vintage not only gives Gruss an Aachen four stars but also includes this rose on the "Most Fragrant" list.

Exactly!

Some fragrances waft in the air. You may not be able to smell them if you bury your nose in the flower, but you catch it from ten feet away. That's how Secret Garden Musk Climber is for me, and Sombreuil.

My ability to smell roses really varies. Visitors to the cemetery often remark on how good the roses smell, when I can't catch anything. Then, some days, I seem to smell everything. I do have allergies, so maybe there are just some clearer days. I wish that I could detect the fragrance all of the time.
Anita

Carrie..
Nastarana, my Nastarana has a fragrance that is just awesome!

I often get questions from people wanting to know why I don't include fragrance ratings in the Handbook for Selecting Roses. I think this discussion explains the problem pretty well. For instance, if I show Gruss an Aachen as being fragrant, those who can't smell it will tell me I'm wrong. If I don't show it with fragrance, those who find it very fragrant will say I'm crazy.

I may someday try to indicate the varieties that are noted as being very fragrant, but I guess that would just prove that I'm crazy, and a glutton for punishment besides. :o)

A few years ago someone posted a nice (albeit 50 page) survey of rose fragrances. The person posting it ascribed authorship to molineux. The survey classified the different sorts of odors that have been reported. It gave typical examples of roses with each characteristic fragrance and explained how different people can sense some odors but not others . Also for each class of rose (Tea, China, etc.) a discussion of the more fragrant roses is included (the longest section). It seemed like a nice resource, but I can't locate it on GardenWeb.

Fragrance can change because of soil and climate conditions, time of day, age of the plant, and of course the sniffer in question. For example, I cannot smell apple in roses. The actual fruit is intensely fragrant but I can't smell it in roses. Ever. It used to be the same with other fruity scents but over time I've been able to sensitize my nose to these ephremeral fragrances. Another example is CRAMOISI SUPERIEUR (China). Lots of people claim this rose isn't fragrant but to me it has a distinct cherry candy fragrance.

I can always smell Tea rose. Just love that fresh and astringent scent, especially when it is blended with Damask (which can be a bit heavy by itself; the Tea rose "lifts" it up).

Patrick

I used to detect no fragrance on Clementina Carbonieri but now when I pass the whole bush, it's a wonderful scent.

Carla

It's the figs all over again.

Figs are supposed to taste delicious-ambrosial even-everyone says so. So every time i see a fresh fig i buy it. I take it home and eat it. Nothing. Insipid. And i think that it must just be a bad fig because everyone knows that figs are delicious-ambrosial even. Mangos, OTOH, are delicious every time.

Maybe it's like that.