Impossible to say for certain with those pix. First guess is they are slowly declining due to human development and alteration of moisture regime in their root zone, but just a guess. Not uncommon. Maybe there are certified arborists down there that have remedies if I'm correct, hard to say if I am in this distance diagnosis with that info.

Dan

whose house is it hanging over???

ken

You're right. Something is killing your tree. The first place I would look would be at the ground. There appears to be a raised garden bed planted around the base of the tree. That's not good for it, especially if it's been there awhile. Is the root flair exposed? If not, remove the mulch and bushes that are growing under the tree, and expose the flair. An arborist can do this with an air spade, and remove any stem girdling roots. The tree also appears to have been way over pruned. That is an old tree and irreplaceable. Hire a well known professional arborist, and get a second opinion. I hope the tree wasn't originally planted in burlap...that also could be hurting it, even after many years. Good luck.

Yes, let me re-state after dogwind. It is not uncommon for native trees to die in many areas of the world after a subdivision is slapped up. If the construction compaction doesn't kill them, the re-grade or landscaping does. California has elaborate restrictions to try and prevent the death of native oaks after subdivision slap-up, but the homeowners want their pansies and grass to look at out the window and to increase their investment value, and that will commonly ruin the efforts the contractor made.

Dan

Epicormic growth is, in my mind, one of the most obvious features of a tree in serious decline. I've seen this thousands of times, almost always due to a construction activity of some sort. It could be new construction or something that happened a few years ago. Epicormic growth also appears after tree topping, or when a tree begins to shed large branches.

Hopefully, you can find a good ISA (International Society of Arboriculture) certified arborist to give you some honest, and practical advice. Some trees aren't worth trying to save. Some are.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I contacted an ISA certified arborist today, hes comming by tomorrow to take a look. My house was beuilt over 30 years ago, so there has not been any new construction in the area that could have resulted in any root damage(at least none recently).

I had no idea that a raised bed around the base of the oak tree could be causing a problem. The arborist will probably recommend that it gets taken out, I will gladly obliged for the health of my tree. I guess that rules out my future plans for a permanent stone raised bed around the oak!(but thats ok because it will save me some money)

Luckily, its not hanging over either of our houses. For some odd reason it never decided to grow towards my neighbors house.

This tree may have been over pruned due to "hurricane proofing". Tree companys advertise this during hurricane season. They say they take out the branches that could pose a danger to property if a hurricane were to come. I've noticed that most of these companys are not certified arborists or affiliated in any way. The previous owners were elderly, in their 90's. They had been taken advantage of in the past based on the evidence provided to me via receipts and actual work done on the house.

Hopefully I will get some decent news tomorrow. I hope its not too late. I also hope it also wolnt cost too much to fix the problem(s). I say that because the consult/diagnosis alone is expensive! (Hes one of about 5 arborists in my area, 1/3 in my county!)

I will fill everyone in tomorrow if you're curious to the outcome.

Thanks again for your replies!

Let us know what the arborist says. Neat tree, you are right it will be a shame to loose it. Suburban environments though limit how long we can let declining trees linger.

Yes, let us know what the arborist says.

Well, the arborist left a little while ago and I'm releived, yet dissapointed. He quickly came up with the conclusion that it is a girdling root, somewhere. Its an odd situation. The raised bed has been there for a while, most likely since the tree was planted. This theory is reinforced by the presence of root flare on one side of the tree, but none on the affected side. The tree has no evidence of pests or fungi. He pointed out some interestings things, one of them being the way the roots were growing. On the affected side of the tree, its looks as if there are roots near the surface that are growing in an almost circular pattern about 1.5-2 feet from the trunk.

His reccomendation, as I figured it would be, is to airspade the bed out to find the problem root and sever it, thus restoring flow. He would also want to give the tree some fertilizer injections. All of this is fine and dandy, until the price tag shows up.

I had been doing my research prior to his visit, so I know the true costs behind the use of air spades.

The company is asking for $850 to air spade the bed and $275 to do one round of fertilizer. I have a good job, but not good enough to fork out over a grand for a half days worth of labor. I'm now looking into rental of an airspade(if I can find one) and the rental of a 185cfm compressor.

If anyone knows where I can rent these in the Tampa Bay area, let me know. Also, if you have any other suggestions, feel free to post. I'm open for anything at this point.

Second opinion. I wonder at the chances of you being able to rent an air spade, but if somehow you find someone willing to rent you one, as long as you can drive a jackhammer and a trencher and you are strong, you can drive an air spade, with help from a strong buddy.

Dan

I would worry about someone who's not really certain of what to do with the air spade and injury to the tree. What do you think, Dan? Was he talking about fertilizer injections into the tree or into the soil?

Did he verify that it is a Live Oak (and not a laurel oak, as they are sooooo often confused with each other in the south)? And what about the age of the tree?

You may be thinking of a different air spade. Here is the website with the tool mentioned http://www.air-spade.com/. Its just a pipe with a small nozzle that blows air. Too bad its costs $1,200. I'm thinking about making my own, I just have to figure out a way to make it handle all the pressure without exploding in my face.

Here is a link that might be useful: Air spade

What do you think, Dan? Was he talking about fertilizer injections into the tree or into the soil?

First, I myself may not even do an air spade as I don't have years of air spade work whereby you learn where you expect roots to be.

Nonetheless, for that price I imagine the fert is in the root zone rather than injected. But maybe he's cheap. Might work a bit for the tree, hard to say.

Dan

Did you happen to get a quote on removal?

If you're trying to determine if it's worth the cost of attempting to correct the problem, I'd first ask myself if the tree provides any benefits.

Judging by the photos it looks rather homely from the "hurricane proofing", it probably doesn't provide that much shade and it looks like there are other old trees nearby to provide some shade.

Did the CA estimate the likelihood of success? Did you ask what he would do if it was his tree?

For that kind of money, you could put in some faster growing replacement trees.

Is the air spading and fertilizer throwing good money after bad? That's for you to decide. If it were me, that would have to be some pretty strong fertilizer to make that tree pop out some new branches and there would have to be very good odds of recovery.

Either way one thing I wouldn't attempt is trying to DIY on a tree that size. It could be dangerous or end up creating a hazard.

He said injections into the tree itself, but not until the girdling root is fixed. Its funny how you mention you would know where to expect the roots to be. I was out there earlier to see if I could do some excavating myself with plain old shovel. Its a no go. The roots are everywhere! Which I dont think is a good sign. I'm putting forth my efforts towards the trunk of the tree, on the affected side, and working down and out. I beleive using an air spade(the high powered blow gun) will cause less harm to the roots than me, a metal spade and a pick axe!

Air spade fabrication is soon to come. I just need some pipe, a nozzle(I can probably use a water pressure washer nozzle) and a inline ball valve.

This is a live oak. Speaking of laurel oaks, I actaully saw the end result of a 80' laurel oak falling on a house last week. Looked like it had some sort of fungus problem.I bet that would wake you up at 2am!

I asked about the age of the tree, he didnt give me much of an answer. Pretty much just said they grow at varied rates. The house was built about 35 years ago and it appears the tree may have been planted then.

Removal wasnt intially an option for me, but when you (and the other half, she refered to it as "letting it die a slow and natual death") put it that way, it makes sense. The tree is spotty all the way around. The only real area it is providing shade to is that back corner(back right in the picture). There arent any other shade trees in the area, so a replacement would definately be necessary.
Throwing good money at bad, more than likely. Cutting it down and replacing with a properly placed, planted and taken care of tree may be a great option.

Anyone have any ideas on how much it would cost to chop this sucker down and get some fire wood? I could also use some browns for the compost pile, or maybe some nice mulch?

Another thing I have to consider is that my city does not like trees being removed

An inch of replacement tree for each inch of DBH removed
or
"30 inch or greater DBH, $50.00 per inch removal"

Unless:

The tree is diseased or injured to the point it will ultimately expire or no reasonable remedy exists

The tree is in immedite danger of falling and no economically praticable remedy exists

The tree is significantly endangering existing structures so that its continued presence will ultimately cause damage and no remedy.....

In the citys professinal opinion the tree is substantially endangering existing pavement or utility services in a manner that threatens to damage property or life

The tree creates unsafe visibility that pruning will not rectify

It is found by the city to be in the interest of the general publics health, safety and welfare that the tree be removed.

I will be making a call to thecity tomorrow...

They use a large industrial size vacuum with the air spade to control the dust, not something that is easy to duplicate. Your also going to need to wear a mask / full protective clothing.

Also you will need a large compressor such as a rotary screw compressor to put out enough CFM's (to drive enough air to do anything meaningful). I bet the rental cost on a compressor that size will be $200-$300 a day or higher.

That said, if you want to do this on your own, imo your only option is to do with with a hose & by hand. I can be done, it is time consuming and messy. I did a root collar extraction on my large mature ash last year (measures over 9' in circumference @ 4' high). All with a hose and by hand. Very messy, but non-damaging to the tree.

I also cut out a root that would have girdled the tree in the near future.

Jamie

Well, now that the subject's been broached, I'll reiterate my initial comment: the tree is in decline.

And fert injection isn't going to fix the issue. It may pop more leaves but it won't fix the repeated indignities the tree has suffered, and in that place there certainly is a risk for infection via the injection wounds.

So the issue is: will spending the money make the tree look like a normal tree? Likely no. It may prolong the life of the tree. But its a scruffy tree.

If it were my house, I'm not doing my own air spading and that means paying someone for questionable results.

Dan

You should have no problem convincing the city that the tree should be removed. However, if it were me I would seriously consider into putting a hard days work into a root excavation and soil removal with a garden hose, hand tools (chisel) and broom. One thing to remember is that you should only worry about roots that are girdling the trunk, above the root flair. Circling roots below ground should be grafting themselves to each other rather than choking the tree. If there are many roots choking the trunk, remove the tree. Otherwise, expose the flair, apply some TLC (core aerate the root zone and apply some compost or mulch) and wait to see how the tree responds for a year. If it continues to decline or not improve, remove it. I spent $1200 removing a similar sized tree after a storm 3 years ago, but I was probably way over charged as the trimmer had more business than he needed and I didn't negotiate on the price. Your certified arborist is also asking too much. The fertilizer injection is useless IMO, and if the tree is able to be saved, you should be able to get similar results for free by doing it yourself.