Hi Elemire, I've noticed the shrubby element to most of the Noisettes. In most ways in most places, that's good. Here, given that I've decided that I need a few extra canes to pull down to the ground, I think it will work out fine. But if I wanted only a few leggy canes to climb that narrow area between the windows, then shrubby might be a negative. I looked some more this morning at the narrow spot, and 4.5 feet across is probably stretching it. It's probably just about exactly 4 feet wide... meaning that in order to get the canes traveling upwards at 45 degree angles in such a narrow opening, I'll be really, really glad that Crepuscle is _flexible_. >Crepuscule. I think I might be pairing her with Ghislaine de Feligonde on the arbor, the orange gradient might be nice. That sounds like a wonderful pairing to me, Elemire. Crepscule will like every one of the shades of Ghislaine's coloring that she runs into, and both plants will look even better next to the other than they would alone. I don't know about mildew problems with oak trees, Elemire. If ours have it, then they manage to grow just fine in spite of it. Much of the yard here is covered in all sorts of deciduous trees, and they all do okay without any care at all, except for the dogwoods. Dogwoods are prone to succumb to really bad droughts, so during a drought we water the few dogwoods that are within the reach of our hoses. Other than that, we don't pay attention to the trees. Once in awhile, a large tree dies, and at that point we always speculate that it had had enough of all the droughts here in recent years. I'd read that Mac likes a lot of water, and have thought some about the competition of tree roots. I've actually thought some about trying out putting a huge pot with some drainage holes into the ground there, and may end up going that way with it. Not this year, though we might get a small MAC started here as soon as this fall if I ever get the total scheme straight in mind for this section of the yard. We just redid a raised planter (near the potential MAC spot but slightly downhill), and I want to see how those planter roses are doing in terms of the pergola that sits between the two (potentially two) rose sites. Assuming the Renae I cut one cane of RRD out of starts the spring growth with no signs of RRD, then it's going into the planter along with Madame Plantier to climb up the pergola. There's also a Eutin there to wander around the planter floor with some hellebores and spice up the closeup view of the planter from the pergola. If the climbers do reasonably well in their too-shady spot, then we won't need MAC to try to climb up from the other end, and she could then scoot into the nearby oak tree. We cut off the lowest limbs of that oak tree to give some sun to the top of the pergola, and I just hope the amount of direct sunlight there will be sufficient. If not, then I suppose we can put camellias into the planter. (I adore camellias too! It's just that I couldn't quickly get a camellia to do the scented pergola-covering tricks a rose can easily do within a few years.) Well, I'm off to more rose planning/imagining... Thanks again for your comments! Best wishes, Mary

There is a good possibility that your red climber is an old Dr. Huey and there's nothing wrong with that. He can put on a spectacular display! If that's what it is (a photo would help ID it) then you can probably prune him pretty low without much worry because he's a VERY vigorous grower! That's why he gets used as a root stock. But, like a lot of climbers, those bare bottom limbs are fairly common and will probably return. A lot of climbers do that because it takes a great deal of energy to send food up to the tips to leaf out and bloom. So to save some energy they stop producing leaves, laterals and blooms at the bottom. The way you train it makes a difference too. By sending it up that arbor you've created a long vertical stretch that doesn't produce lateral growth so it doesn't bloom. The wider, more horizontal, you can spread the limbs the more laterals, so the more blooms, you will get. That's the point of trellises, to spread the canes out sideways to create those laterals. It's also what "pegging" does. By bending the canes around in a circular manner you create horizontal areas that will produce lateral limbs and blooms. That's what's happening on your arbor. The long straight stretch up to the top doesn't produce the limbs for blooms but when it gets up to the top it lies horizontally across the arbor and grows side canes that bloom. My best suggestion would be to leave it alone and plant something shorter at the bottom to cover the bare legs.

I'd like to put in a good word for Tradescant. Not sure if I can say it's my favorite, but I wouldn't be without it. I can't seem to figure out how to post pics, but I know Patrick (my enabler on that one) has some incredible pics of it that might be nice to add to this thread. General Jacqueminot might actually be my fave - at any rate, every time I see it I say that. Trouble is, it is very prone to BS. But, oh, the perfection of color (whitish-bluish blush backing) and nodding, full blooms... Celeste - love your pic of General Washington. It has long been on my wish list, but I have hesitated to get it, since so many HPs have disease problems and (to me) awkward plant habits. Is it a lot of trouble?... Souv. du Dr. Jamain is the second most remarked upon rose in my garden the first being Jude the Obscure). Smoldering, saturated, and trouble-free. I call it my Dr. Huey substitute. Am I the only one who actually really likes the old doctor? They are in bloom all around town right now, and I can't go anywhere in the car without taking long detours just to see them all. I know they'll look like hell in a few weeks, after bloom, but gosh, so will some of my HPs! :) Call me a simpleton, but Dr. Huey was actually the rose responsible for my interest in old roses. Since childhood I loved that mysterious, arching old rose that graced so many of the older houses around here. If I could only have one, I thought... Well, when I grew up and moved back to my small hometown, I went searching on the web for that old thing. Couldn't find it anywhere. But, I found lots of other gorgeous, smelly old roses and lovely specialty nurseries and this wonderful, helpful forum. And it was here that I finally learned the identity of my first rose obsession. And nobody likes it. Why? I still don't have one (nearly acquired one a couple of weeks ago, but that's another long story...), but sometimes when I drive about town, looking at all the spectacular Dr. Hueys, I think just for a moment that maybe my grand, elaborate rose show is still not the equal of a single mature specimen of the reviled old doctor. Am I just crazy? Over-romanticizing my first rose love? Or are there others who appreciate this rose too? With humble pleas for tolerance of my heretical views, robiniaquest (or should it be Dr. Hueyquest?)

Gotcha, Mad gallica, on the shrubby thing. I don't want shrubby. The area is about a ten foot privacy wall between our driveway and our neighbor's property. There is only about two feet of clearance between the fence and the driveway, so shrubby definitely won't do it. At our old home I grew several of the David Austin roses with great success. I remember one of them, Abraham Darby--that is the type of graceful, arching aspect I am thinking of. Canes would get to be about 7-8 feet long, as I recall. I remember severely pruning it at the end of the season and then mounding some hay over it--i.e., no dramatic protection--and each year it bloomed just as beautifully. That is kind of what I am thinking of. I am also beginning to think that I am going to have to deal with mulch if I want to grow something really beautiful. Also--just for my own understanding: Climbers don't necessarily have to grow on old wood, correct? If I don't need to preserve the canes, then I could use any long-caned rose in that location, right? That's kind of where I am leaning. Sorry for all of the questions. Thank you again! philosopher