Foolproof in the northeast? the midwest?

11 years ago

I noticed that the thread on foolproof roses is heavily dominated by roses that do well in California. It makes sense. California is a kind climate for roses. Also, there are a high number of California rose growers on this forum. I am one myself.

But I have family members and friends who live in eastern US, and sometimes they ask me for rose suggestions. Sometimes I actually buy a rose for one of them, say as a housewarming gift. I have my brother in Florida all set due to the useful information Malcolm Manners has shared with us. But I have relatives in Kentucky, western Pennsylvania, upstate New York, and even New England. I know we have antique rose-growing posters on this forum from these parts of the country.

So please, what are the foolproof roses in your area? What rose would you recommend to a friend who might admire roses, but isn't going to lavish care on it? I'd prefer that we limit this to old roses, not modern landscape roses.

Rosefolly

Featured Answer

rosefolly
Original Author

11 years ago

Thanks everyone -- I don't have a cut off date and I certainly would consider the right modern rose. I do want roses with character, not the kind of roses mass planted for a wash of color on a roadside, i.e., not landscape roses or the like. I had been looking at some of the Buck roses, Carefree Beauty for one, and Earth Song for another. Since family members I give roses to rarely grow any other roses, I do like them to be repeat bloomer. An exception is the garden in upstate NY. Knowing how cold it is there, I gave that relative a nice, hardy gallica.

I was also tying to get the conversation going for all of you, not just for my own interest. Spread the wealth. And the knowledge.

Rosefolly

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (17)

seil zone 6b MI
11 years ago
I have Reine des Violettes, Rose de Rescht and Honorine de Brabant. Of those three RdV is probably the healthiest and hardiest. RdR spots a lot and HdB doesn't bloom much.
carol6ma_7ari
11 years ago
Crepuscule is still blooming (but hard frost is due), r. moschata climbing high, r. alba both semi-plena and maxima, thriving; r. complicata is turning into a major hedgy shrub with lots of blooms, and the rugosas are all doing well (we're near the sea). Souvenir de la Malmaison has smaller blooms than in California. On our RI property, middle June brings out hundreds of r. multiflora blooms in the wetlands. On our very urban MA land, lots of multiflora along the chainlink fences and the railroad tracks.

So it looks like the most foolproof roses around here are species roses hardy to zone 6. They rarely get pampered, deadheaded, fertilized, just watered.

Carol
Related Discussions
Spring is never coming to the midwest
Q
Comments (43)
Interesting... Spring is here now... so take some solace in that... I would say normal to maybe a week late... My Dad loves to tell stories of Hard Freezes even till July 4th up in Northern Michigan.... so late springs and cold weather is not totally unheard of... I don't think I could take that sort of Winter weather... but the Summers up there sure are nice... My peaches and plums are mostly all in bloom..... Apples aren't yet, though... My concern is late killing freezes since the flowers are out... Easter is our traditional "Safe" date.... I gotta say... I am thankful that we didn't get another super duper early spring - followed by WAVES and WAVES of Bugs and Disease like last year.... Thanks
...See More
Foolproof seeds for wintersowing with kids
Q
Comments (9)
I've worked with children many times, as well as have advised educators. I always recommend a regional wildflower mix. There are many plant varieties in the mix and so many, many opportunities for success, and because of the staggered germination the kids can observe the many different types of seedlings--it's part of learning that not everyone and everything is the same. And, all those different varieties mean a lot more to learn about than just one or two species. A regional wildflower mix is a springboard to learning, there are a lot of educational tangents that come from it. Field-trips to habitats, environmental and ecological studies, bees and other pollinators, climates and ecosystems, gardening basics, art projects, pressing flowers, drying flowers, etc etc etc. I'll paste in a link for the regional mixes available at WildSeed--I've ordered from them many times and I like their service and quality, however, there are many other companies that you could get your seeds from, use whomever you feel comfortable with making your seed purchases. Here is a link that might be useful: Wildseed Farms regional mixes.
...See More
Acer grandidentatum in MIdwest/central US
Q
Comments (26)
Just joined GW and have been reading many of the "Hot and Dry" maple threads. As a former Northeaster looking for Fall Colors I've decided to try numerous trees down here to see what works best. I'm in San Antonio in the "toes" of the Hill Country on the NW side. 8-10 of "soil" and then rock/caliche. Testing either in ground or in pots (need pots as I can't get everything in the ground) Shantung, both "normal" and "Fire Dragon" - planted Caddo "John Pair" - dirt bag Big Tooth sourced from Love Creek (in ground) and Big Tooth from online (dirt pot) Mexican Sugar Maple (2) - dirt pots Chalk Maple (2) - dirt pots Also testing a Paperbark and Trident Maple. Want to also get a Flashfire Caddo and Highland Park Big Tooth but sourcing is $$ and my wife might kill me. Maybe in the early spring... We'll see how it all goes and will post up next spring. Fingers crossed. This post was edited by mattm01 on Wed, Dec 5, 12 at 16:23
...See More
Growing Red Spruce in the Midwest
Q
Comments (13)
Resin, I have to beg to differ on that last comment. Red Spruce are a distinct species from Black Spruce, and while are similar are NOT the same tree. Also, Balsam Fir are pretty different from Fraser Fir. Even Canaan Fir are somewhat different from their very close relative the Balsam Fir, but they both look much closer to one another than they do Fraser firs. Seeing them in their native habitat, you can (well I can at least anyway) clearly see and tell the difference between the Fraser and Balsam firs. Similar, yes, but still fairly different. As for the OP, I would say that attempting to grow them in your climate is going to be a bit of a challenge. You saw them on the very highest of peaks in the Smokies. Typically above about 4,500 -5,000 feet or higher that far south. Here in Virginia and West Virginia, they also grow on the highest peaks of the Alleghenys / Appalachians and even a few peaks of the Blue Ride Mountains as well. However this far north they are able to grow at altitudes as low as 3,000 feet, and a few scattered stands can be found even lower than 3K feet, though they are not common. There are several reasons for this. First is the substantially cooler climate, even in summer. Where they grow the climate is so drastically different from most places that on any given summer day, it can be 90 down in the valley under 3,000 feet, but up on the high plateaus/ ridge tops it will be in the 60s/ 70s. Rarely do those ride tops see 90s, and often those ridge tops get into the 30s and 40s at night even in the hight of summer. Second is the mesic type habitat they do best in. These trees need WATER. While growing in standing water will eventually kill them, growing in high altitude wetlands, as well as open mesic environments on the high peaks is great for them. They are some of the closest trees the eastern US has to "rain forest trees" There are sections of WV, along the Allegheny front where they grow still (second growth forest except for one 150 acre tract) in fairly large tracts and numbers, but the environment is very high altitude for the east coast, is MUCH MUCH colder than most places on the east coast, and is much much wetter than anywhere on the east coast as well. Many areas where there are true Red Spruce forest receive almost as much annual precipitation as some of the temperate rain forests of the Pacific North West. The main difference being that much of the precip comes in the form of SNOW for Red Spruce. Were talking where they grow usually gets between about 150 and 200" of snow in any average winter, and has recieved 300 inches of snow annually at times. The annual liquid precip for most of the areas where Red Spruce grow exceeds 55 inches, which is considered the threshold for temperate rain forest in north America. Another thing to note about these trees is that in their native habitat the high mountain ridges they grow on are typically shrouded in coulds for a large number of days annually. Another thing to keep in mind with these trees is that when they are young, are EXTREMELY shade tolerant, and often will grow slightly better when in at least partial shade while young. In their native habitat, they are EXTREMELY hardy trees given the conditions they face: Extreme cold (20-45 below zero temps), many months of freezing, extreme high winds often on a daily basis (hurricane force sustained winds are common) as well as extreme heavy snow fall and coatings of ice for very extended periods of time ( think months on end). ALso, the soil make up where these trees grow is usually more acidic in nature. You CAN do it, but your trees will require special care, and LOTS of water. Relying solely on annual rain fall could do them in, especially if you have a drought year. One more thing to note is that they often will suffer from needle cast when taken outside of their native area. Not always, but it is fairly common. People used to dig them up in the WV highlands, and bring them home to use as landscape trees or wind break trees on farms 1-200 years or more ago, but often they ran into the same problems many at lower elevations do today, especially if you are on the close east side of a large mountain range in its "rain shadow". That said, they are quite beautiful trees. I personally prefer them to Norway Spruce as they often have a more narrow crown, at least until they get huge. While we can grow them here they are tricky even for us, and were very close to their native range. I feel very privileged to live so close (2 hours drive) from some of the best remaining Red Spruce forests south of NH / Canada. The trees you saw in the Smokies, while beautiful trees are not true solid Red Spruce forest. For that you need to go to mainly West Virginia , and even parts of extreme western VA. This is where the true Red Spruce forest ecosystem begins, and the stands are usually PURE. The highest elevations of the Monongahela National Forest, ranging from 3K feet, to 4,863 feet on WV's higest peak, Spruce Knob. If you'd like I can post some photos of that area and the native Red Spruce Forest. Just let me know.
...See More
mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
11 years ago
For here, I'm thoroughly convinced there is no such thing. The fools are much too good at what they do. You give them gory specifics of *exactly* what rose they are supposed to buy and from where, and then they sit it in a box for 2 months because it is 'too cold' to plant. You sort that one out, and the poor thing ends up in a hole filled to the brim with fresh, unadulterated manure. You manage to get that sorted out, the plant growing, and get told 'that isn't a rose', and they complain for the next five years about how they can't rid of that weed you told them to plant.

So it always comes down to the specific use for the rose, and the specific handholding that particular person needs.
dublinbay z6 (KS)
11 years ago
I only grow a few OGRS and I'm not sure how old some of my roses are considered, but here are a few easy-to-grow, non-hybrid-tea-looking rose shrubs/bushes.

Mystic Beauty (bourbon)--identical or nearly identical to Souvenir de la Malmaison, available only from Roses Unlimited.

Fru Dagma (rugosa hybrid). I think a number of the rugosa are good choices.

Buff Beauty (hybrid musk).

A couple good Austins, easy-to-grow:
Lady of Shalott
Mayflower
Mortimer Sackler
Queen of Sweden
Pretty Jessica

For Austin climbers, try:
The Pilgrim
St. Swithun
Wedgwood Rose
They should all blend in nicely with older roses.

You might also check out the modern Kordes rose with some hybrid musk in its background: Eutin. It doesn't look very "modern" and would supply some bright/dark red.

Oh, as far as I know (but do double-check), all the above are hardy through Zone 5 and are quite good on disease-resistance (but may not be disease-free).

Hope that helps.

Kate
catsrose
11 years ago
Gallicas and Rugosas, from VA northward; noisettes and Chinas from VA southwards. Bourbons blackspot too easily. VA, TN, KY can grow just about anything. My very best rose here is R. Moschata. It doesn't blackspot, it is in afternoon shade, the deer leave it alone and it never got the RRD that swept thru my garden two years ago. It is enormous and beautiful. Nastarana, Crepuscle, RdV, Mme Alfred C and the rugosas are next. The hybrid musks did well but RRD took them all out. Hybrid Perps and Teas are iffy; they are are either wildly successful or just die. Mosses just hang in.
kaylah
11 years ago
rosa alba semi plena, rosa maxima, rosa centifolia, rosa gallica, Harisons Yellow, Madame Hardy, Charles de Mills, Felicite Parmentier, rosa eglanteria, Greenmantle, Konogen van Danemark, Fantin Latour, Hallie's rose, Chloris, Quatre Saisons Damask, Therese Bugnet, Leda, and Celsiana.
This last couple years I've been experimenting with repeat bloomers. If you can get it to live, this gives you some blooms later in the summer. So far Gruss an Teplitz, Tess of the D'ubervilles, and another David Austin whose name I forgot.
I've tried growing things that will not survive lack of summer humidity, like hydrangeas and mountain laurel.
I think my biggest problem is grafted roses. I have root stock coming up all over the yard from those.
jerijen
11 years ago
Cat, it's interesting that the Bourbons blackspot too easily along the Eastern Seaboard -- because out here in SoCal, they mildew and rust, occasionally blackspot, and get hit by anthracnose and cercospora.

I guess they are probably great SOMEWHERE, but it's good to know that my area is not the only only bad place for them.

Jeri
catsrose
11 years ago
Jeri,
We get anthracnose & cercospora as well--anything fungal thrives here. The few Bourbon successes I have had here are when they have plenty of air and few neighboring roses. I grew beautiful Bourbons in Santa Fe. One of my first jobs here--before I knew better--I planted two Louis Odier by the entry to a country club clubhouse. They have done beautifully! But there are no other roses w/i 20'. Also, my replacement knows zero about OGRs and prunes them rather heavily, like HTs, and that may actually help control the fungi.
rosefolly
Original Author
11 years ago
How does Stanwell Perpetual do in the mid-Atlantic? I'm thinking of it for a Pittsburgh garden. Other suggestions are welcome. What about Carefree Beauty? Or the other rose with a closely similar name, Carefree Wonder?

Rosefolly
mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
11 years ago
Large, pink, recurrent - Frontenac

Stanwell Eventual has been completely underwhelming any time I've seen it around here. Pittsburgh may be enough warmer and drier for it to do something.

Carefree Wonder is in the running for the worst rose I've ever grown. One of the roses the rose society had in Kingston may have been Carefree Beauty. Nobody really remembered. It was a decent rose, though planted too close to trees. Health seemed good, but blooming/rebloom didn't seem too great. In ways a strange rose that I wouldn't have minded running across in a better context.
cymbidium3
11 years ago
Kaylah,

I noticed you grow both Alba maxima and Alba semi-plena. I have been thinking about adding one of these to my yard. Would you please let me know which one do you prefer? I think I can only grow one because they are supposed to be > 7 ft tall. Thanks.
dublinbay z6 (KS)
11 years ago
Just to make sure no one is misled, it may be true that Bourbons BS in the East and mildew/rust in the West, but split the difference and you come up with a nearly perfect environment in the middle of the country--good ol' Kansas--where Bourbons grow fine.

Well, maybe I should qualify that. My Zone 6 Kansas area where the Bourbon called Mystic Beauty (identical or similar to Souvenir de la Malmaison) thrives with no disease problems. It just blooms and blooms and blooms--and it so lovely.

Kate
Krista_5NY
11 years ago
Stanwell Perpetual is a winner for me; Marchessa Boccella and Reine des Violettes are also wonderful.

These roses get blackspot in my no-spray garden setting; however, they do well.

Stanwell Perpetual forms an arching shrub, I prune it so the blooms don't touch on the ground. It's about 5 feet wide and 3 1/2 feet tall. Repeat bloom is very good, it's almost always forming new buds after the June flush. It tolerates some shade, I have it in a spot where it does not get all day sun.

Stanwell Perpetual

{{gwi:322155}}

{{gwi:322156}}
zeffyrose
11 years ago
Paula-----Carefree Beauty does very well here in eastern Pa.I purchased it as Katy Road Pink but after posting some pictures I received a nice e-mail from Griffth Buck's daughter explaining it's true identity---however I don't think it is considered OGR since it was hybridized in 1977--you want OGR roses----
New Dawn does well here and it is as old as I am----LOL I think that qualifies as an Antique---LOL

Albertine does well as does Zepherine Drouhan (although she does get BS---
What year is your cut-off date?---Lafter does very well here but the date is 1943----
Lyda Rose is still blooming (best one this Year)it is a lovely fragrant single---1994---much too young to be an OGR
Ghislaine de Feligonde is another once -bloomer that does well.
Florence
rideauroselad OkanaganBC6a
11 years ago
Hi Rosefolly,

I have been growning roses for more than a decade now in Eastern Ontario, home of the Canadian Explorer Roses. If you want foolproof cold climate roses, this is the place to trial them. As this is the Antique Roses Forum, I was initially hesitant to post about cold hardy roses for the harshest climates, but since Explorer Roses and Dr. Buck's roses have now been mentioned, I'll put in my two bits worth.

I have not had a lot of luck with OGR's here in Eastern Canada. Most Bourbons and Portlands seem a bit tender here. The exceptions are Louise Odier, Comte de Chambord, Jacques Cartier, and Rose de Rescht if planted deep and own root. I have tried a few Albas and failed. Limited space has kept me from trialing the Gallicas, Centifoias, Mosses and other once blooming OGR's that I would like if I had room.

However, with winter protection the list broadens a bit, particularly if you mulch a bit with straw and grow own root roses. Many David Austin Roses and Griffith Buck roses do very well here particullarly with some straw for protection. The really fool proof ones for me are:

Buck; Prairie Harvest, Prairie Sunset, Quietness, Folksinger, Pearlie Mae and Hawkeye Belle.

David Austin: Saint Cecilia, Mayflower, Evelyne, Charles Darwin, Crocus Rose, Mary Rose and her sports Redoute aand Winchester Cathedral, Cressida, Teasing Georgia, Alexandra Rose, Abraham Darby (protected sight), The Reeve, Lilian Austin, Radio Times.

Climbing Roses are few and far between. The ones I can recomend are: Isabella Skinner (Victorian Memories), John Davis, Northern Encore, Polsterjarnin (Once Blooming), William Loeb (Once Blooming Moss), Morden Snow Beauty.

Of course, all or the Morden and Explorer roses from Agriculture Canada are wonderful and hardy in the cold zones. Below is a link to the site of the Canadian Central Experimental Farm Garden in zone 4 Ontario. Both the heritage rose garden cultivars and the official Canadian Explorer Rose Garden. if you want to see what we grow up here with winter protection,lots of OGRs in the heritage Rose Garden,and the Explorer Rose Garden are listed.

Enjoy and greatings form the "Great White North".

Cheers,

Rideau Rose Lad, aka Rick
Cheers from the

Here is a link that might be useful: Central Experimental Farm Gardens
sammy zone 7 Tulsa
11 years ago
I am with Kate. I have 12 SDLM, and they grow very well here. Also Maggie grows well, but not Kronprincessin Viktoria.

Cramoisi Superieur is a favorite of mine, as is Spice, and a few Bucks.

Sammy

Foolproof in the northeast? the midwest?

rosefolly
Original Author

Comments (17)

seil zone 6b MI

carol6ma_7ari

Related Discussions

mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)

dublinbay z6 (KS)

catsrose

kaylah

jerijen

catsrose

rosefolly
Original Author

mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)

cymbidium3

dublinbay z6 (KS)

Krista_5NY

zeffyrose

rideauroselad OkanaganBC6a

sammy zone 7 Tulsa

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Foolproof in the northeast? the midwest?

rosefollyOriginal Author

Comments (17)

Related Discussions

rosefollyOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

rosefolly
Original Author

rosefolly
Original Author