Thanks for posting pictures of these beautiful roses. I assume these roses are more common in Australia than in other parts of the world? Where do you live in Australia? Maybe you can tell us a bit more about them, if you like.

Cheers,
Andrea

Thankyou Andrea for your reply. I was wondering if I had done the wrong thing by posting them here instead of in the Antique Rose Gallery, because no one has commented. Although I know how hard it is to have anywhere near enough time to read and post as much as I really want to here on Garden Web, as well as other rose forumns.
Alister Clark, who was born in 1864 and died in 1994, was a Australian rose breeder. I will post more latter here as a storm is comming now, which is fantastic !

No problem, and no, you haven't done anything wrong! I think that some of Clark's roses fit perhaps more into the modern category, espcially his HTs like your Mrs Fred Danks from the 1950s (and feel free to cross post on the main rose forum), but that doesn't matter. I'm curious to learn more, especially since Clark's roses are not that widely grown in other parts of the world, although some are available in Europe and England. I think you can also get some in the US, Roses Unlimited carries a selection, if I remember correctly.

Well, I couldn't resist a little look-up on HMF. I see that your Argosy, Mrs Harold Brooks and Diana Allen were all bred in the 1930s, and of course people here discuss plenty of roses from that time period (e.g. Hybrid Musks, polys, Pernetiana HTs etc). I really like the looks of Diana Allen, and HMF shows the beautiful Mrs Aaron Ward as a parent.

According to HMF, new Zealand's great rosarian Trevor Griffiths included a section on Clarke in his book A Celebration of Old Roses [!]. David Austin btw, much discussed on this forum, named one of his roses in the old style after Griffiths. Here's the HMF quote:

[From A Celebration of Old Roses, by Trevor Griffiths, p. 133:] Alister Clark, of Glenara, near Melbourne... worked industriously over many years, raising thousands of seedlings for little financial reward and often passing them on to non-profit organisations for distribution. He produced many types of roses... He used as one parent a tremendous Rosa gigantea for many of his creations... Many of Clark's roses are not hardy in the colder-climate countries." (Pity)

I think though that Clark didn't quite get 130 years old as you suggested, typo of 49/94 I guess ;-). There have been many long lived rose breeders but maybe not that record setting. He lived from 1864-1949, and 85 is certainly a very good age.

Anyway, I hope the storm was exciting without being damaging, and please tell us more about your roses and Clark's/Australian rose breeding! The more international this forum gets, the better.

Cheers from Britain,
Andrea

Here is a link that might be useful: Alister Clark on HMF

rosemeadow, in August I added two Alister Clark roses to my garden - Marjory Palmer and Mary Guthrie, looking for disease resistance. Yours are all lovely. I don't recall seeing them on Roses Unlimited's website so they're probably not available in the USA. I hope it turns out that mine like my humidity.

Thanks for posting. Keep it up. We always like pics! This forum hasn't been very busy lately so that probably explains the shortage of comments.

Sherry

Its wonderful talking with you both, Andrea and Sherry !
This afternoon I spent my computer time following the breeding of some roses through Help Me Find, I have never done this before and I will be doing it all the time now. The other thing I have started doing is reading articles written by Alister Clark. The site is -
http://www.rosarosam.com/articles/articles_menu.htm
Next Winter I will be buying more Alister Clark roses as so far I am impressed with them. The Mrs Harold Brooks, Mrs Fred Danks and Lady Mann I got from a Australian nursery, Misty Downs. But Argosy, Cicely Lascelles and some more Lady Mann, I got from a hobby propagator that got his bud wood from David Rustons who has the biggest range of roses. I thought I really liked Mrs Harold Brooks, ( and I do still ) but after she had dropped half its petals, Agrosy still had its petals and the bloom was getting more spectacular. It was being kept in the hot house until I got to plant it out, so this probably kept its bloom going so well. I took another photo of it but it was getting past it's best. Today I planted it out as we got 14 mls in the storm last night. It will be interesting to see how the bloom goes in the open.
I have some other Alister Clarks so I will post photos of them as they bloom if I like them.

Andrea, yes I wrote that second post in too much of a hurry, apparently ! The other day I was thinking when I saw when Alister Clark was born, in 1864, well 99 years latter I was born, and back in 1909 he would have been 45 years old as I am 46 years old now in 2009. I have yet to check when he bred his first roses, but my first I have bred now being Kathryn Morely ( seed parent ) x Fourtune's Double Yellow ( pollen parent ), which are just 2 tiny baby roses but growing well. Anyway I hope I have another 39 years, and more, to grow and try breeding roses. I haven't pollinated anymore roses this year, I was busy mulching and didn't have any ideas, but now I am going to try using Alister Clark roses to give me direction, and copy his using Rosa Gigantea. I have about 6 plants of this rose planted this Spring, which I got from my friend the budder, with the Alister Clarks and some Tea roses.
Sherry, I hope your Alister Clark roses go good for you and thank you for explaing about Garden Web being quiet at the moment.
It was really nice to meet you both and I look foward to talking roses with you often. I will post the other photo of Argosy in another post as I have to get it off my camera first.

Here is Argosy latter on.
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Argosy, Lady Mann and the little pink bud is Cicely Lascelles.
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Lady Mann.
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Lady Mann again
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My Hand pollinated seedlings.
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rosemeadow_gardener, did you post that photo series for Fortune's Double Yellow? If you did, THANK YOU!

THAT'S what I wish there was for every rose entry at HMF! You (or whoever it was) provided SO many different photos at so many different scales!

That photo series really provides you with a whole set of impressions of the rose, so you know what it is likely to look like for you if you are thinking about growing it.

Hi York Rose ! Yes, I did post those photos of our Fortune's Double Yellow. Thankyou for your kind comments.
I liked the photo of it that InLandEmpire posted showing it in the Descanso Gardens. It shows it can be pruned to a manageable mould and still be covered in blooms. I heard that where the cutting came for our tree climber, they had it growing infront of a house, and they cut it back every year. Our FDY was already the size it is when we moved here. I am growing a small rooted bit and some cuttings cloeser to house, as its a bit far away from the garden and you miss enjoying it if you are too busy to walk down the paddock. So latter I will have it wild and pruned.
Did you end up growing it ?

My climate's a bit cold for the Teas, Noisettes, & Chinas.

rosemeadow, I have FDY. It's not very big yet. I have it in a rather tight spot between a big oak tree and the path, wanting to train it up the tree. I plan to do my best to keep it lashed to the tree. Hope it works. Your photos are beautiful. Mine went in the ground last March (but I had it in a pot for a year before that) and hasn't bloomed yet. Does the clock start ticking on blooming when it goes in the ground? I guess it won't until next spring since it's a once bloomer, right? That's really cool that you're using it in breeding. Keep us informed on your results.

Sherry

York Rose, do toy grow Gallicas etc. ?
Sherryocola, I look forward to hearing how your FDY grows for you. I hope you are enjoying some blooms next Spring.
Yes I sure will post my results from my first hand pollinated cross.

I grew a White Rose of York (Rosa x alba semi-plena) until a freak winter a few years ago killed it. Presently I have Salet, Fragrant Cloud, & Paul Shirville near my townhouse, and on the condo property are also 1 David Austin rose (one of the apricot ones, but I don't know which) & 3 climbers, one of which I've trained as a freestanding shrub (& I believe it's Tausendschön), City of York (which I will replace someday with a more mannerly climber), and probably Dr. Van Fleet (although since it was relocated a few years ago I can't be certain yet that it isn't New Dawn).

Rosemeadow,

I didn't have anything to say about your original post so didn't comment, but I was happy to see someone bring up Alister Clark. I believe a few of his roses, not many, are fairly well known in the U.S. and Europe. Recently the nursery Roseraie du Désert in France, specialized in warm-climate roses, has acquired a good number of Clark roses, so they'll be more available in Europe, and a new and interesting group of roses for those of use who live in warm areas. One of the roses I was thinking of is 'Lady Mann'; can you tell me if it has any fragrance?

I have a question: at what point in the growing season did you take your successfully rooted cutting(s) of 'Fortune's Double Yellow'? I've tried several times to root it in the fall, my usual time for taking cuttings, and have always failed extravagantly. Do you have any suggestions as to how to succeed?

It's helpful if you post where you live and your climate zone so that they appear at the head of your posts.

It's good to see you on the forum!

Melissa

York Rose, what is Salet like ? I have still to grow a adult bush of Fragrant Cloud, mine is only little yet. I love New Dawn. I have it as a weeper. the other day I saw it in another town and in a front yard they had New Dawn trained along their fence. It looked so pretty.
Melissa, I took the cuttings in Autumn, lost alot but I still have a few still growing. Omce I had a whole pot of FDY I grew from cuttings but I lost them sometime after I planted them out in my garden. At the same time I planted alot of other struck Rambler cuttings, and they all survived except for the FDY and some Banksia struck cuttings and I wondered if the frost killed them. Another person told me the same had happed to them, eigther because of frost or their bore water.
Since then I have found a few small plants growing next to the FDY mother bush. One of them I cut through the middle and sent half of it to a friend and then planted my half.
I will smell the next Lady Mann bloom and let you know. I like Lady Mann's bloom, the colour stands out.
I am really glad to hear Alister Clark's roses are in Europe and the U.S.A. I read a article that he wrote about being saddened to see really good roses being forgotten and not grown. He named them, some that we now still have, but so many I have never heard of. Maybe they are in the pedigrees of some of our present day roses. Some of the roses that Alister listed could be in his roses that he bred. So its great his roses are still around being grown, linking us to those great roses of the past as well as having his lovely rose creations to grow and admire.

One of the things I like most about Salet is its hardiness. That won't be a relevant consideration for you, but for me the canes suffer almost no winterkill at all.

My bush grows in the dappled shade of a flowering cherry, with the early morning sun blocked by an evergreen azalea. It also is infected with a rose mosaic virus (I bought it in the late 80's from Roses of Yesterday & Today). Consequently it doesn't grow as vigorously as Salet is capable of growing, yet even so after being transplanted from the Philadelphia area to the Boston area (a 6 hour superhighway drive further to the northeast) four years ago it now is approx. 3.5' high on four canes. So far it puts out one new cane per year, at the beginning of the growth flush following its late spring blooming.

It's remontant, but not a strong repeater, with a big bloom in late spring and little thereafter. (I believe when it's growing in a better location it blooms very occasionally during the summer, and then blooms a bit more heavily in the autumn.) It's a moss rose that isn't heavily mossed, but very few of the mosses are remontant at all, so that makes it a rarity. I also believe it's regarded as one of the most dependable of the reblooming moss roses.

The leaves are somewhat coarse in appearance, yet thin, with a healthy, flat, medium green color. (My soil is acidic and Rosa multiflora is an invasive weed here.) The leaves are notably hairy to the touch, although the hairs aren't really visible. The canes are heavily prickled, but the vast majority of the prickles are insubstantial. The prickles remind me of those on the cane of a rugosa rose, but they're less substantial than that.

The flowers are nicely fragrant (as is the moss), about 3" wide, very double, and a medium pink color with a hint of lavender. In substance the petals are also more thin than thick.

I regard Salet as one of the most satisfying roses I grow. Despite its less than perfect present location (& the horrific, droughty subsoil it grew in when it was in the Philadelphia area, where it barely survived, but did survive for almost 20 years) and its virus infection, it doesn't die back. The leaves get some crud in the summer (probably black spot, but the symptoms are a bit atypical) and it defoliates (about 70%) unless I spray it, but during the summer it also gets sprayed by lawn sprinklers for 30 mins. every morning at about 4:30 am. I wish I could stop that, but I can't!

It puts up with much less than ideal circumstances and still gives satisfying flowers with almost no winterkill. So far the bush grows in a very shapely manner, with the longer canes bending into a gentle arch as the flowers come into bloom. One fault it does have is that the flowers struggle to open in cool wet weather, but that's not unusual for an antique rose with heavily doubled flowers.

Here's the HelpMeFind entry for Salet.

Thankyou York Rose for telling me so well about your Salet rose. So your rose is about 24 years old. The oldest rose I have had since a young bare root is only about 9 year old. It is a Gertrude Jekyll and it has lived through a bush fire and three moves.
I got alot of Moss roses this year, but Salet must have been sold out as I reckon it was one I ordered. I will definitely get it next year now. It was very thoughtful of you to to provide the link for me, thankyou. In the future when I have my Salet, I am sure I will think of you and your Salet whenever I am caring for it or enjoying it's blooms. I hope the Mosaic Virus never hurts your rose.
When you say Rosa Multiflora is a invasive weed, what is your Salet budded on to ? Or what rootstock do they use for your area ?

Melissa, I read in a catalogue that Lady Mann has a srong Tea rose scent.

You're welcome! (I also did that in the hopes that any North Americans reading my response would be aided by the info. I do honestly think it's a worthy rose to have.)

Back in the 1980's Roses of Yesterday & Today grafted their roses onto a rootstock (& they may still for all I know). Since they were (are???) a California production nursery I am sorely tempted to say that they grafted their roses onto Dr. Huey, but to be honest, I have no idea what they used for Salet. All I know is there is no question that mine is RMV-infected. I can see it in the leaves it puts out during its spring flush (although I can't see any symptoms the rest of the year, & that's consistent with RMV infection in the USA).

I hadn't thought about its being alive for 24 years! (A year after planting it I got preoccupied by grad school, and then other life matters, and then I finally moved out of my parents' house on my own. It wasn't until 4 years ago that I was finally in a place where it made sense to retrieve from my parents' yard the flowers I wanted to grow next to my townhouse. Such is life sometimes.

BTW, I also could have transplanted The Fairy. That's a very, very worthy rose, but I'm a fiend for fragrance and The Fairy has none that I can detect. It also is easy to purchase in the United States.)

When you say Rosa Multiflora is a invasive weed

I specifically mentioned that for the benefit of the North American rosarians who might read this thread. In the USA R. multiflora (& its hybrid offspring) have a reputation for growing much better in acidic soils (especially those of the northeastern USA) than in the alkaline soils more commonly found in the arid & semi-arid western USA. That was a clue as to the sort of soil in which I garden.

In the Eastern USA Rosa multiflora has a less than savory reputation because after it was imported from the Orient about a century ago it escaped and has widely spread hither and yon, growing wherever a bare spot in the soil affords it the opportunity to sprout after the seed's been pooped out by a bird who has eaten the rose hip. When it blooms the aroma is lovely, but no rose growing out of control is desirable, especially when it provides an intractable reservoir for Rose Rosette Disease (as Rosa multiflora now does).

:(

I have the Fairy as a tall weeper, its canes of blooms were great fo boquets last year. I haven't done any this year as it is so dry. I saw Mosaic Virus on it last year.
I also saw a Mosaic looking leave on one of my more established roses, and on one of new roses yesterday. Also on my Heidisomer weeper I saw while dead heading today. I will have to start buying only Mosaic Virus free roses now I am
learning more about it, and check all my roses while I am walkking around them. I really want my garden to last a long time.
But I reckon Rose Rosette sounds far worse than the Mosaic Virus. Thanks again York Rose, for the links, very educational.
About the Multiflora, now I know why the rootsock, given to me by a friend, strikes so easily. It is a weed !

I read your comment on a recent post, and looked up your Alister Clark here.

I never looked at your post because when I am busy, I only look close to my zone. Many people in the northern states can grow roses that just burn in Oklahoma, so unless I am just browsing, I look at those that are close to my weather conditions.

What zone are you in? It would be helpful to me if it were on your title.

I will re-read your post at a different time, but what makes Alister Clark special? Do the roses have black spot resistance? Are they winter hardy? Are they beautiful? Do they have a quick rebloom?

Must go, but at least this post will bring back your Alister Clark post.

Sammy

Hi Sammy, thanks for your post. I have no idea how to work out my zone for here in Australia or how to put it in with my details. But a discription of our weather is frosts in Winter and hot in Summer.
My Alister Clark roses are only young yet so I don't have much experience with them. I do plan to buy more next winter.
Alister Clark bred his roses from crosses of well known roses with R. Gigantea. He was trying to breed roses for the Australia climate, and which would also bloom during winter.
I don't know about whether they are resistant to blackspot yet. Alister Clark was very passionate about breeding roses. I am reading on the internet, alot of articles he wrote, so I should know alot more when I have finnished.

When I look at some of the petals that Rosemeadow posted, I see the R. gigantea petals that I got to see for the first time this past spring in California. Everyone needs to be able to caress those huge, wonderful petals at least once.

I don't think it's well known that Mr. Clark sent a lot of his roses to North America to be tested. This was, ahem, before the import restrictions.
From what I've read, the roses went to American Rose Society members who were avid rose growers and who participated in the "Proof of the Pudding" back in the 30's. (At present, all who want to participate send results in and everything gets averaged.) Back then, results were sent in to J. Horace McFarland, Editor of the ARS Annuals, and individuals' results were printed, and each person was given credit for what they had written, so we can see how different roses did regionally/nationally. There's a lot of information in the American Rose Society Rose Annuals from back then about how the Clark roses did in North America.

I keep hoping that some of them will pop up as found roses.

In the meantime, Roses Unlimited offers some of them; RU got some of those from an Heritage Rose Foundation meeting back in Florida when Malcolm Manners had served as the import quarantine site for an importation of Clark roses. If I recall correctly, the USDA acted to import these (this sort of thing has to go through national Plant Boards because of specific quarantines) and the idea was for Malcolm's lab to clean them of any viruses, etc. so they could be offered to North America again. The unvirused ones were, IIRC, the ones sold at the end of that meeting to raise money. The virused ones live on in his greenhouses at the University, awaiting funding.

Anntn, thankyou for your knowldge of Alister Clark Roses in North America. It is very good to hear you like R. Gigantea as I have 5 new plants of it planted in my garden.
I found those American Rose Society Annuals complied since 1916, but I can't find how to open the articles to read them. Can you tell me how to do this, I would love to be able to read them.
I am thinking of doing the American Rose Society's trial membership, if it is open to people in other countries.
At, www.rosarosam.com/articles_menu.htm there are lots of articles that Alister Clark wrote. Also historical articals about other roserians.
I hope some found roses of Alister Clark do turn up in America for you.

Borderer is one of my favorites. I have wanted a garden of his roses to try in Fl, but I have been very impressed with the 5 or 6 I have .