There are people more expert on the forum that me - but, I'm trying the "newer" pruning method anyway of leaving as much foilage as possible - for sure with new bushes, and new plantings I clip as little as possible. I think those directions are talking about well-established bushes - with my own-root Sharifa Asma and Englantyne I can hack off as much as I like, they come roaring back. My newer grafted Abe Darby and Tamora and any other weaker or new bushes are as lightly clipped as possible - I figure the more leaves, the more food for the bush. You might try just clipping the first "3" leaf set, if it's there.

I have never seen a true blue Penstemon, so I'd be suspicious of that identification. (Sorry, can't find my catalog, so can't check it out.) Any Penstemon I've seen that was described as blue actually had a hint of magenta in it. Now, it could be a Penstemon, but I have a Blue Bed consisting of any fabulous or electric blue I can find--I'd have put Electric Blue Penstemon in there in a second if I'd ever found such a thing. When I think "electric blue," what instantly comes to mind is delphinium--probably the short Delphinium that gets about 18in to 24in tall. That I do grow abundantly in my Blue Bed. It would be approximately the same shape as Penstemon and could be easily mistaken from a distance or in a blurry photo. That's my best guess--but of course I may not know what I'm talking about in this case. LOL Kate

Below is what I notice in my garden of 150+ fragrant own root roses: 1) Own roots that can take high humidity with healthy leaves in my rooting bin, even with constant condensation (water) on leaves & stems. These can take extreme humidity yet have 100% healthy leaves, even with poor drainage if the soil is NOT acidic. Evelyn, W.S. 2000, Mary Magdalene, Christopher Marlowe, Pat Austin, Queen of Sweden, James Galway, Dee-lish, the Dark Lady, Spirit of Freedom, Tchaikovsky, Purple Lodge. 2) Own roots with healthy leaves with humidity, if the drainage is fast, plus liming on top to neutralize acidic rain: Abraham Darby, Crown princess Magareta, Tess of d'Ubervilles, A Shopshire Lad, Radio times, Well Being, Augusta Luis, Sonia Rykiel, Yves Piaget child. 3) Own roots that blackspots with high humidity despite fast draining or liming, and need constant potassium fertilizer to stay healthy: Golden Celebration, Carding Mill, the Squire, Gertrude Jekyll, St. Cecilia, Firefighter, Comte de Chambord. 4) Own roots with THICK LEAVES which rabbits don't eat: Evelyn leaves are thicker than Abe. Tchaikosky leaves are thick like Augusta Luis, Christopher Malowe leaves are thick like James Galway and Purple Lodge. Crown Princess Mag, Strike it Rich and About Face have thicker leaves than Cading Mill. Never see blackspots on Chris, Evelyn, Tchaikosky nor James Galway. 5) Own roots with THIN LEAVES which rabbits devour: Abe. Darby, Munstead Wood, W.S. 2000, Sonia Rykiel, Well Being Golden Cel., Firefighter, Boscobel, and Comte de Chambord. The above are my observation with own-roots in my garden plus rootings in humid bins of Evelyn, Dee-lish, W.S. 2000, Spirit of Freedom, Christopher Marlowe, The Dark Lady, The Squire, Augusta Luis, James Galway, Mary Magdalene, Abraham Darby, Sonia Rykiel, Dee-lish, Golden Celebration, Gertrude Jekyll, Radio Times, Pat Austin, Well Being, Tchaikovsky, Crown Princess Mag., Purple Lodge, thornless Yves Piaget child. *** Princess Anne is touted as very healthy, but as its roots mature in its 5th-year, it's prone to blackspots in my poor drainage clay. Some Austins have chunky & woody root that rot fast in standing acidic rain water like Princess Anne. Some own-root starts out as healthy cluster roots, then matures to chunky & woody (like Dr.Huey-rootstock) and become more Blackspot-prone in later years like Princess Anne. Other Austins like W.S. 2000 have cluster-root (similar to multiflora) that does not rot in acidic rain, thus zero blackspots even as 12th-year-own-root. Leaves of W.S. 2000 and Evelyn have NO blackspots in high humidity rooting bin. Evelyn can take high rain and poor drainage clay better than Abraham Darby (best bloomer for hot & dry and alkaline climate). A Abe. Darby & Sonia Rykiel & Well-Being need a higher pH and all 3 bloom well with my alkaline tap water at pH 9, thus best for hot & dry climate. Below are pics. of W.S. 2000 being healthy, it's right next to the rainspout dumping tons of acidic rain at pH 4.5, note the pale leaves: Below pic. of Evely was taken July 24, after week-long rain, I never see blackspots on it in its 12 years as own-root, if biochar at pH 8.6 is given before a rainy month. Note Evelyn's paler leaves than Abe. Darby:

Lilyfinch, I am closer to Guerero's and I agree great prices. I remember only a couple of years back they had killer deals. Rose prices have gone up so dramatically it makes me sad :( . Another nursery I would recommend is San Gabriel Florist and Nursery in LA County. Their rose inventory is currently set aside so they utilize the space for bare roots. I called last weekend and they said their bare roots should be in by January. They stock David Austins and many other types like Romanticas. Sunshine Growers use to have tons of roses, but the location in Ontario looks like it is closing and they have not renewed the rose inventory for almost a year. Which is a shame because their rose prices were just right.