hi, Susan,

We all have different ideas about what kind of garden we want. My garden ideas have changed over time and what I like has changed. I expect once you get started, your ideas will change too. don't be afraid to start because you're afraid to make a mistake.

Some books w/a lot of pictures are "Right Rose, Right Place" by Peter Schneider and "Landscaping with Roses" by Jeff Cox.

Do you have your beds in place yet? The biggest thing I look for when I try to plan my garden is to look at the landscape or land itself and see how the beds can fit into it - where is the sun? are there a lot of tree roots to contend with?

I've used the lasagna/cardboard-mulch/manure method of putting in beds a number of times and found it to be an easy way to put in and expand beds.

Good luck with your garden. Ask more questions!

Gean

I always envy people who start with a plan and stick to it. For me, plans always fall apart because first there's one thing I can't live without, then another and then another and pretty soon all the order has disappeared. I started off putting the most fragrant and continuous bloomers close to the house, patio and walkways. The least fragrant were farthest away and the very fragrant but only once-bloomers were interspersed. I tried keeping the yellows together, the reds together and the pinks together with the whites accenting each of the other groups. But now it's just a hodge-podge.

Thanks Ladies. My perennial garden is a bit of a hodge podge too. I've had borders for about 10 years but then I received a pair of rabbits as a gift--opposite sex rabbits *ahem*.
They (and their offspring) were free range for a season and mowed down pretty much everything I had. SO...now they have found homes and the two remaining are in hutches.
I am going for a cottage feel with teas, chinas etc close to the house. I want to be able to just walk out and inhale. The placement is not an issue as far as growing and cultural requirements. It's more of what's going to look good together.
But whether I have a plan, or stick to it, I'm going to begin!
I've seen some gardens on HMF that I really like and I will check out the suggested books.
Thanks!
Susan

If you don't mind mixed colors together then figure out the sizes and where the sun is. Put the tall ones in the back and the short ones in front. Then you won't have tall ones shading short ones. I like to group tall narrow roses together rather than a tall narrow one next to a tall sprawler.

I usually think in terms of what overall effect I'm after. Peaceful and serene? plant lighter colored roses in similar shades. Look at me effect? Clump together a number of brighter or darker roses. Dynamic energy? Lots of contrasting colors--perhaps even a couple that slightly "clash." Subdued and reflective? lots of blue plants (not many roses qualify, but lots of blue companion plants mixed in with white or light-to-medium pink roses will work. (I also call that my classic English garden colors.)

A couple other considerations: try to get contrasting shapes for extra interest--a clump of iris near some roses, for instance. Or if it is close to where you sit outdoors or a path (to the garage, maybe) that you often take, make sure it is a rose that re-blooms well and often, perhaps one that smells especially good, maybe one that is not too thorny, definitely one that has an nice overall appearance (not just stunning blooms). Or, pick out one or two roses that seem to do particularly well in your garden and get several more that can be placed/repeated at periodic intervals--helps unify that section of the garden to see a few repeating elements.

Depending on what roses you select--such as the David Austin shrubs--a number of them look especially good clumped together--Austin recommends 3 planted in a triangle, with about 18 in. between bases. I do that with some of his narrower, upright roses--like Molineux and Queen of Sweden--makes them much more eye-catching.

I'm sure there are lots of other possibilities. One thing I do is sit there for several hours while I rest and consider what I like or don't like in the view from that direction. View seems rather boring--go stick a bright gaudy rose right in the middle of the boredom. That will liven things up. Or is the view kind of jumble--hard to focus on anything? Put some unifying repeats in there. Color seems too close, in your face? Substitute some more delicate shade or pastels. Lacks variety? Put in a tall climber or tall shrub. The point of sitting there for a long time is that sooner or later your reaction will break through--I'm bored with that view, that view is a jumbled mess, those colors are getting lost in the distance, etc. Then forget what the rules are and fix that problem. At least, that is what I do periodically.

Good luck. Planning can be half the fun of rose-gardening.

Kate

Susan, somehow I think that those of us meant to plan, come out of the gate planning and being able to put things together in meaningful color/pattern schemes. Then there are others of us that just don't think that way - I'm one. For us non-innate-planners, I at least am happy with my resultant chaos. Your garden is something first and foremost for "you".

Gardens are an extension of us. I also think they can be an extension of who we want to be. So if you're a planner who wants to cut loose, or a chaotic person who wants to be really organized - take the opportunity to build your garden that way.

Most important really is just to start getting them in the ground. You'll learn so much as they start to grow and mature together, and they aren't all that hard to move (in the first few years anyways).

I have NO regrets about my completely unplanned garden, but there are certain color combinations I've come to love, that I think would look good grouped together in the garden. Pinks/Purples/Blues, Reds/Oranges/Yellows, Purples/Oranges/Yellows. Height is a challenging aspect as many roses with grow in any specific climate to different size specifications than labeled. So - you either do pretty intensive research, or heck - go for it!

Have a blast. The best part of all is watching each individual grow, thrive, morph.

I'm a plonker. Except for size, I just plonk them in the hole. Even when considering size, I'll plant one that's supposed to be three tall that ends up being six and vice-versa. My garden is what it is. I would love to be one of those artistic gardeners that plants swaths of flowers according to color and leaf shape and color, but unfortunately, I don't have an artistic bone in my body. Sometimes I luck into a beautiful combination, and I'm thrilled. But I'm basically just a gardener.

I'm a plonker too. Nature doesn't color co-ordinate anything and yet it's always beautiful so I don't either and I love the riot of colors all mixed together. And even though I try to do the sizing thing the roses don't always co-operate, lol! In the end you plant them, wait to see how they grow and then invariably you end up moving some around. I've never had a rose bed yet that I didn't have to do some re-arranging to because something grew too big or didn't grow as big as expected. Gardens are living things, constantly in motion and ever changing.

I would like to be a plonker and in most areas of life, chaos rules. The garden though, is where I do tend to spend an enormous amount of time in consideration of this and that. I do care about colours, and form and especially function and, although the garden looks casually tumbling and messy, it is, in fact, contrived down to the tiniest bulb. However, that is not to say it is planned as this implies thinking ahead - not a notable skill of mine. Nope, the garden evolves over time as various enthusiasms catch up with me. I tend to sow seeds of plants I like and then spend a great deal of time selecting the exact place for them to thrive. However, there are very few hard and fast rules in gardening and I rather think the most important thing is to simply do it, whenever and however it suits you.

I guess I'm somewhere in between a plonker and a planner. I see beautiful gardens and I want to imitate them rather than customize to me and my personality.
I am going to take everyone's advice and just let them do their thing for now!
Thanks
Susan

I went out and looked at my past decisions. I put fragrance roses in morning sun locations. Morning sun is best to get the strongest perfume out of a rose in my experience. I put favorites outside a window where I see them all the time. Next to these I put flowers that made that rose look good. I put DA myrrh roses in late day sun to tone down the myrrh scent. I planted the roses that shatter easily next to the tall bamboo windbreak. I put white roses in front of dark foliaged trees and hedges where the white will shine out in the late afternoon. I put the thorniest octopi in the very farthest spot where they can't reach out and hurt anyone.

Then there are the well behaved smaller roses which I scatter like confetti. You can't have too many of these.

Ive reread the thread and I really appreciate all the thoughtful comments. Got "right rose right place" a great book!
Susan

I love the word "plonker"! That describes me perfectly, and believe me, my flower beds are far from what a professional would advise... I've ended up with tall plants in front, shorter in back, etc. etc. but overall am pretty happy with the whole thing. And that's what matters!!