I'm having the same issues with the Mrs. BR Cant hedge I made to go around my screenhouse. She is planted 6 feet out from my screen, and on almost 10 ft. centers. She is starting to touch the screen already, and they've only been in since May. I'm seriously thinking I need to remove them and plant something there that is more manageable. Otherwise I will be having to do weekly trimming.

My other teas seem more restrained, and I think you can keep them trimmed some and not have them sulk. The Antique Rose Emporium lists the best kept sizes (in their opinion) of all their bushes, and says you can cut them back by a third without harming them. They may be a good source to check with.

I will be watching this thread with sonme interest, myself.

Sandy

I like the idea of the 'Great Wall of Teas'.

Mine are still babies, but putting on growth. Marie d'Orleans is probably 3 feet diameter, Mlle Kruger had to be cut back earlier this year when she was replanted and almost died, so she's a bit smaller, but has recovered nicely and has lots of blooms, even in the drought.

Rosette de Lizzy seems to be growing straight up, I don't know how she'll wind up.

I've given them enough room, I hope, so they will fill in the bed but not over grow it.

I read an article in Ashdown's newsletter or about Michael Marriott's planting practices. He plants in tight groups between 18" and 24" and recommends those in warm climates start at 24" and go up from there. He doesn't worry about air flow. The old "rules were written for roses that were not disease resistant and also to allow enough room for the intense maintenance needed to grow roses for exhibition." The article says "In a rose garden the roses should undulate in drifts from one variety to the next and the ground should not be seen." And "He does not prune each bush of a variety's mass planting individually. Rather he treats the mass as one plant and shapes the whole."

That's a very interesting take on the subject. Maybe I should have started a new post, but this seemed to fit Jody's question.

Sherry

I have had to occasionally prune my Mrs Dudley Cross back rather severely to keep it in bounds for the space I have. The plant does not like it, but does tolerate it.

Randy

Do any of you remember what rose it was that David pruned? I was not up there at the time. I can go take a picture if you want-
Trish

If I remember my DVD correctly, I think it was "Dr. Grill". I sure would like to know how that grew out.

Jerome

It was the Dr Grill next to another Dr. Grill. One two or three year old cane was left and (I think) one one year old cane.

I will go up and take a look. From propagation notes however, it looks like they may have been cut again. I will double check and post back later for you.

Trish

I prune my MvH[15w] routinely as thats all the bigger I can let it grow.She seems to thrive on it.with practice you learn to prune so it doesn't look cobbled and has a natural flow.
Just gave her a snack of 16-4-8 yesterday-She devours a lot but you don't want to skimp or you get dead branches as it sacrifices some to save the whole.That ought to cause some winches .
Surprised that some don't like pruning.

I'm still confused too. Mine flop all over each other and it bothers me. I thought I had done a better job last year and pruned them harder than before but they still grew horizontally and flopped around. Maybe I should just learn to live with that.

I remember reading somewhere that with Teas you limit your pruning to the removal of dead wood and then light shaping once the plant reaches maturity. Of course, that doesn't sound practical for the really big Teas like Mrs. B.R. Cant.

Like Sandy, I will be watching this thread with some interest as I just starting growing them this year in zone 7b Virginia.

Patrick

FWIW, we have seen many old, long-established Tea Roses which are NEVER pruned, and they are happy, healthy, and very big. Teas are in general plants which grow steadily, gradually building up a twiggy substructure, which is important to the plant.

I am reluctant to prune ANY Own-Root Tea until it had established itself completely. Minimum 3-4 years in my climate. But it is also true that pruning main canes in my climate is a gilt-edged invitation to die-back and downy mildew. I will keep a cane intact until I am ready to remove it completely, rather than shortening it at any point.

FWIW:
1. A fully mature Rosette Delizy in my Coastal SoCalif garden is close to 15 ft tall now, and easily 10 ft across at the top.
2. The plant form is: \/
3. A Tea Rose that is "floppy" is immature. Stake the canes up, remove dead wood, bless it, and leave it alone.
It will grow stiff canes when it is ready.
4. We have Tea Roses planted on approximately 30-inch centers. They are not bothered by lack of air flow, but one may definitely block the sun from another. And it becomes difficult to tell which plant is which.

Jeri Jennings
(On The Road, in Bastrop, Texas)

I don't know if this counts for anything since mine are all in pots, but I have two Georgetown Teas, Baronne Henrietta de Snoy, Franziska Kruger and Clementina Carbonieri. This is Clemmie's first real season since I bought her at Ashdown last September (06) but the others have been pruned severely to stay in those pots and they were wonderful and bloomed a lot.
The Georgetowns which really grow and were the first to take off in the spring when they came out of the garage, got a real severe cut in August after a big flush. They responded by growing longer, thicker canes than the twiggier growth below and those new canes have much larger more substantial flowers on them.
Just thought it was interesting. I don't know if being in the ground makes it completely different because you've got roots that are probably much more substantial than what I have in the pots.

I prune mine back by at least a third twice a year. It doesn't faze them. No adverse effects, no ugly growth, nothing. They just keep blooming. I have cut them back by more. Took a little longer for them to rebloom but that is about it. Some of my Teas just like to grow horizontal canes, some don't. I think it may just be their particular growth habit. Clementina and Mons Tillier are the worst for horizontal growth in my garden. Mrs. B. R. Cant likes to throw those horizontal canes too but she throws canes in every direction. :-).

Carol

I don't know if being in the ground makes it completely different

***** It makes a huge difference.

Jeri

Was it Paul Barden who wrote a great article a few years ago about how to prune the different types of roses? I should have it archived somewhere...

Who ever wrote it did a great job describing the differences in growth habits and pruning recommendations between all types of roses. A good reference for anyone interested in form and maintenance.

I'm no expert.
But
When I prune teas I try to leave the twigginess. Teas are my favorites because they are so full and the twigginess lends to that fullness.
I haven't noticed any teas that resent "shaping".
Safrano was supposed to be narrow but turned into a 8'wide bush. It is routinely cut in half to accomodate a path. There's no die back and it doesn't mind the pruning at all.
Mme Berard, which is a tea noisette, does resent hard pruning and will die back big time.
Most of my teas are routinely cut down to 5' because that's how tall I am and if I can't reach the blooms to smell them then there is no point in growing them! None of them have minded their haircuts.
I love the 90 degree angles and the horizontal growth! That's why teas are so much more beautiful than HTs!
As far as how far they should be apart, many of mine were 10', 8', or 6'. They have all grown together and it looks wonderful that way.

Pam, Jeri is 100% correct when she said ... "a Tea Rose that is "floppy" is immature."

Mine were all rather floppy when young, but when they matured are not floppy in the least bit.

Randy

I had to cut Marie Van Houtte down to two feet in order to move her. She bounced right back, is 6 feet tall and wide. Now that Rosette Delizy is 8 feet I think some drastic measures will be required. Norman is forever whacking back Clementina Carbonieri and she refuses to even whine, comes back like gangbusters. They may be harder to get rid of than you think.
la

JackieO: what sizes are your pots? I am eager to start growing a few OGRs, but, where I am living, it has to be pots. So I have been making lists of what works in them, but while cruising through the online catalog at Vintage Gardens I fell in love with tea roses. I'm wondering how big a pot I would have to wrestle with!

When I grew teas up north I cut them back in the fall so I could place them inside my unheated attached garage for the winter. They didn't seem to mind...

I have teas again in pots here and I cut them back severely right before I go up north for several weeks in June and by the time I return in August they are about the same size as they were before I cut them back. I think teas can take more pruning than we think. :-)

Oooh, if I'd had the nerve to try 30" centers I'd have more plants! I went to 48" and still have Duchesse flowing into Monsieur Tillier and he has Maggie on top of him, and this is their first season. I never considered Mrs. Cant because she's SO big. Hey, I think I could tuck Rosette de Lizy just back of Lady H. & Duchesse. I love the idea of roses growing together and hope that's what I'll achieve in the new garden. Am enjoying this thread! Aren't roses wonderful, that they can be grown so many different ways? I'm sad so many people are afraid to try them..

It seems as though from what I am hearing here the teas are pretty tough.

I decided to gently shape my young teas by trimming the inward and crossing canes so that they grow outward, away from each other. I noticed that several canes were damaged from rubbing against each other in the wind. I also removed viney looking weak growth lying in the soil at the base of the bushes, that gave me the impression it was sapping some of the plants' energy. Damaged and cruddy looking leaves were removed. I then spread compost and organic based food around them, along with some coffee grounds. I figured the organics would break down slowly so as to not promote soft weak growth with "winter" coming on. However, with our long growing season, I feel they need something to eat.

So far, the bushes are looking a great deal healthier, and are putting out strong growth from within the canes, which will eventually thicken the bushes up.

I didn't try to shorten the bushes or contain their growth at this point. I only trimmed what I thought would be beneficial to the overall health of the plant, and to encourage them to grow outward in a somewhat balanced fashion. If canes are rubbing together, it is a prime site for disease to get into the bush. Pick which of the two are the strongest, leave it alone, and trim the weaker one to an outward growing bud, out of rubbing distance. If they are a little awkward, but not rubbing, I leave those alone, as the bushes are immature.

Sandy

Back in the days when we were getting rain, we cut Mrs. BR Cant down to 18 inches out of necessity and she loved it, never had performed like that before. I cut Duchesse de Brabant very short and she blooms repeatedly. I don't know where people get this about you can't prune tea roses, but it's bunk in the south --- as long as we get rain, we can prune. Now rain is another thing. Do any of you ever see it? I was hoping we might see it. It seems to be but a distant memory.

I really don't know who started that crap, but I obeyed it out of deference to more experienced growers but it has proven erroneous at every turn. I do let any own root grow
for a couple of years but then dead canes fly and they are cut to fit the space I have for them.
la

Y'all are empowering me! I have a Duchess de Brabant who is fighting for space with Lafter. Both will be sternly disciplined during the winter. I expect less greediness in the future after this lesson.

Here is a link that might be useful: Creative Soul