I have Maggie, and really like this rose. She is healthy, robust and easy to grow. Mine is about almost 6' high, and pretty wide. Don't know if that would be too large for what you're looking for.

I also have a young Francis Dubreuil, which is advertised as being much smaller. Still too young for me to determine what it will actually look like.

Antique Rose Emporium has both of these roses, among other vendors, probably.

Hope this helps. Please ask all the questions you want, you're in the right group for this!
ogrose

I agree with OGRose ... if it's not too big for your need ... 'Maggie' is a must have rose in that color range.

Randy

Hi,

McClinton Tea is very pretty. My cousin grew it a a previous home. Mature, I would guess it to be 6' x 6'.

Francis Dubreuil is a beauty that could grow to 4' x 3' or so in TX.

Both of these roses could be disease resistant in DFW.

I am sure more people from your area will chime in with suggestions etc.

Lynn

I had been thinking about Maggie earlier, but I thought that it was too big for me. I was under the impression that it grew to about 8x8 around Dallas. Is that right? If so, I may need to forego it.

Can anyone tell me more about Francis Dubreuil (Barcelona)? I like the looks of it, but I had heard that it crisped in our summer heat; true?

From a quick look around the web, McClinton Tea looks lovely. I can't tell from the photos I've seen whether it is an orange-ish pink or a blue-ish pink; what would you say? I'd love to hear more about this one.

Flowers of 'Barcelona' burn up quickly even in our mild summers, but it is a great producer of very fragrant, velvety blooms.

'Prospero' is a delightful rose and somewhat resistant to blackspot.Someone here said that it does pretty well in the heat. Flowers do not crisp in my garden. It is a very small plant, so I have 3 together.

Check out 'Munstead Wood'. The flowers are gorgeous and fragrant. Mine is young, but I can tell the plant will be bigger than the 3' commonly described. I haven't heard anything about hot-weather performance.

I was going to suggest Munstead Wood also. It is gorgeous, but I was not sure if it would be fussy in your area. I have read mixed reviews regarding Austin's in TX. Michaelg is very "knowing" so, if you like it, it is probably worth consideration.

Lynn

Take a look at the Austin, 'The Dark Lady.' I've never heard of it going over 4 ft. or so. Good bloomer, too!

Jeri

Meslgh,

What kind of red are you searching for? The Dark Lady is a dark red and gorgeous; as you can probably see by Jerijen's photo.

Munstead Wood is also a dark red, but I heard it described as sometimes appearing burgundy or purplish red, which I love too.

Lynn

The Dark Lady in my hot, dry climate grew faster and bloomed earlier (big, gorgeous blooms) than almost any other rose. Alas, in my soil it was a bright red, not the beautiful color shown in Jeri's picture. I just wanted to give you my input on how healthy and wonderful this rose was, and very fragrant too. I'm the only person I know who's had bright red blooms from this rose, so it may be a personality defect on my part.

Ingrid

Ingrid -- I think it's just climate. I've seen that bright red, but only once, when we had record-setting heat.

And I also like Prospero very much. If you don't prune it, it can get up to 3.5- to 4-ft., but the blooms will dry in hot santa ana winds.

Jeri

mesigh, if you absolutely don't HAVE to have an ogr, I have had Gentle Giant for about a year, and think from what I've seen so far it's going to be a great bush, it's around 5' tall, not too wide, very healthy foliage and the flowers are gorgeous.

I know that Austin has many red roses, but I had not really taken a look at them with all the talk of octopus canes and disease and the like. I'll take a closer look at Munstead Wood, The Dark Lady, and Prospero.

I have not even heard of Gentle Giant; tell me more.

Lynn, you were asking what kind of red; is it too cheeky to say a rose red :)? I'm fine with bluish reds heading towards purple, and want to avoid anything that veers towards orange /coral.

How large does White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth get? How much floral impact does it have?

What about Thomas Affleck? I have not read much, but what I've read is positive.

How would "Sophie's Perpetual" work for you? It's often claimed to be small, but members here have posted that it does eventually get big in warm climates.

:-)

~Christopher

Jeri is spot on with this one, 'The Dark Lady' grows to a mature height of about 4 feet here. She looked excellent in the middle of the summer at the EK Trial Gardens.

Josh

On second thought, mesigh, Gentle Giant is more of a bright vibrant pink, not a 'dark' pink that you are seeking. Probably not quite what you're looking for...

The Dark Lady is looking very promising, but like Ingrid, I'm not interested in fire engine red. How hot does it get where you are Ingrid? Here we can have week after week over 100, but it has to be a scorching hot summer for us to have week after week over 105.

Ogrose, I'm looking for something to give me some contrast to the paler pink and white palette of SDLM, BD, and KV, and I'm figuring to add either purple and/or blue with companion plants (salvia, buddleia, irises are among the plants I'm contemplating) and some sort of silvery foliage, probably Artemesia Powis Castle. So, it can really be a bright pink, as long as it is not to hot a pink.

I think you're going to have to find someone who grows it in your area, because my climate is so different . . .

But, FWIW, we had a long, cool dank spring, followed by a month of unusually-humid heat. Temps around 90 and up, and miserably sticky. Though that whole period, TDL bloomed like mad, and her color was that deep rose-red, shaded slightly blue.

Then, we had a week of hot DRY weather, with desert-dry East winds, and temps up to the mid-90's. Out of THAT period, TDL continued to bloom like mad, and ONE bloom was a lighter, "fire-engine" red.

That may/may not help you ... I think you need someone who grows it in your conditions.

Again FWIW, I think TDL's color is very like that of Prospero, but it does not seem to be as affected by dry wind. I have a more difficult time photographing Prospero. The camera steals away the blue tones.

Jeri

Here's a pic of Gentle Giant take a few minutes ago in the rain! Depending on the weather, sometimes brighter, not so much when really hot.

Jeri, that rose pic is gorgeous. I may be in the market for a Dark Lady.

Meslgh, I have both Frances Dubreuil/Barcelona and Munstead Wood. Two of each. And a Maggie. To me, Maggie is on the pink side of red and Munstead Wood is on the burgundy side of red with Frances being a blackish red on the blue side. IF that makes sense. I haven't noticed Francis' blooms crisping any more than any other rose crisps in 100 degrees, but it does have shade part of the day. I think you'd be happy with any of these three as far as color goes. My Munstead Woods are more sprawling than Francis/Barcelona, which makes a nicely shaped bush for me. Lou

Josh, that most-recent bloom posted is actually 'Prospero,' a rose I really value.

Jeri

Oh, decisions, decisions! Thanks to everyone for suggestions.

Jeri, thanks for pointing out that the photo was of Prospero, not The Dark Lady. Lovely bloom!

Ogrose, I think you're right, Gentle Giant is not quite I'm looking for.

Lou, thanks for more feedback from my neighborhood. All three sound lovely. How large does Frances Dubreuil/Barcelona get for you? Does it have that HT growth habit of a bloom on a stick or does it make a nice bush?

Josh, that photo is incredibly helpful! Thanks so much. I'm really leaning towards The Dark Lady after seeing it. Funny thing is that I have visited the Farmer's Branch EarthKind garden a couple times recently, and don't recall seeing TDL (although I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked DA's Tamora).

I've been checking out the roses mentioned in this thread, as well as some roses on ARE's website, but I'd like more feedback on some of them. Should I post in this thread, or start a new one(s) for more information about individual roses?

Frances Dubreuil/Barcelona hasn't grown past 3' for me. It may, though, as more years go by. It's in light shade in late afternoon. Lovely rounded bush, no sticks. Lou

Lou, thanks for the size information!

I can second what Lou said about Francis Dubrueil/Barcelona's plant habit, for me it is also a nicely shaped bush. Doesn't resemble a modern hybrid tea at all.

You asked about WPIRDM. For me, it's a well-shaped, moderate sized plant. Airy in habit, like most true china roses. I love it, but it is not to be compared to the other roses mentioned in this thread. Different animal.

Randy

Thanks Randy.

Can I pick your brain a little more about WPIRDM? My thoughts are evolving about what I would like. I had said earlier that I wanted large blooms, but I think it might be more fair to say that I would like significant presence of red (or dark pink), which could be large blooms, or just lots of smaller blooms. Could WPIRDM provide that without looking like a scrawny cousin to the Belinda's Dream, SDLM, and KV? China's have the rep of blooming all the time; is that true for WPIRDM in Dallas?

Oh, and since you dropped in again, I was wondering what you thought of another red rose, Valentine, these days. I saw that in earlier years you liked it quite a bit. Has it withstood the test of time (and the test of lack of time)?

Hi there!

What about Rose de Rescht?
It should stay quite small, the blooms are gorgeous and incredibly fragrant.
The colour is a luminous raspberry.
I think it's quite stunning (though impossible to photograph!).

Annalyssa

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose de Rescht

That looks gorgeous, Annalyssa!

I hadn't thought about it -- it's been some time since we grew it -- but that's another REALLY good suggestion.

Jeri

I had been lurking in this thread, thinking about suggesting Valentine, so since you asked, I grow it in the DFW area and it does well.

I have it on the edge of a dry creek bed sandwiched between a sidewalk and all those rocks and it still did great, even with reflected heat. Blooms and blooms and blooms.

Lucas, thanks for the information about Valentine. Heat tolerance sounds great, especially since this bed is going to be right by the street. How large does Valentine get for you? Is it an orange-red or a blue-red?

Anybody with experience growing Rose de Rescht in similar conditions as Dallas, please pipe up! I've been searching the forum, and haven't seen much about it from Texans or other warm climates.

I grow two Rose de Rescht bushes here in hot, humid Alabama. I planted them last February in all day sun. The bushes are nice rounded mounds that are about 3 ft x 3 ft now. The bushes are attractive and have stayed pretty clean without spraying. The blooms are beautiful and smell like heaven. Each had a big first flush...completely covered in blooms and have had good rebloom since. They haven't been covered in blooms again, but have consistently had several blooms each. The blooms don't last long on the bush and only a day as a cut flower, but the petals fall off and self clean without drying up and turning ugly. Color is pretty true to the first pics below that were taken in very hot September...not as purple as they look in the last couple pics which were taken in spring on a different camera.

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I can testify to the extraordinary "self cleaning" of Rose de Rescht!
And the petals, if you catch them before they drop off, are beautiful dried.

Valentine....hmmm too much pressure, I'd just call it red.

Valentine-Here is the whole plant shot. It's only been in the ground on year, so I'm sure it will get somewhat bigger but it doesn't get real big for other people in this climate I don't think. It's been pretty clean all summer, has a little black spot now with the recent rains and cooler temps but I'm hoping it will outgrow that.

Lucas, thanks for the photos of Valentine. How often does Valentine bloom? And could you share what you've got planted on either side of Valentine?

Bishop's Castle is a beautiful Austin. In my no-spray garden setting it gets blackspot and drops its leaves; however I've found it to be garden worthy. It has excellent fragrance, strong and sweet.

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I have and enjoy Bishops Castle too, but a word of warning, put it in the back of the bed as it throws 8 foot canes and is much taller than listed.

Valentine seems to bloom pretty much continuously for me, even during the summer. In the photo what you can see there is seep muhly (Muhlenbergia reverchonii). They are also some wine cups (Callirhoe involucrate) at the base that trail down in the creek but they are dormant right now, so you can't see them.

I've been working on this dry creek bed since last summer and have some threads on the gallery side of the Texas gardening forum. The linked thread shows her in full bloom in August in Dallas.

Nacogdoches is the other rose I have out there that is a blooming machine.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dry creek bed thread

I vote for Archiduchesse Elizabeth d'Autriche I have her and she is a beautiful pink and she smells heavenly!

Here is a link that might be useful: Archiduchess Elizabeth D'Atriche