I held up a fresh bloom next to Paul Barden's photo of WS 2000 (linked below) and the match was very good, at least on my computer. It certainly isn't a pure red or pink. It's more of a bluish red, a combination that can be ugly in Hybrid Teas but is beautiful in old roses and in WS 2000.

Here is a link that might be useful: Paul Barden's WS 2000

Yes, Paul Barden's pic (on my computer)is fairly accurate, colorwise. However, I have noticed that WS2000 is more of a dark wine-red during the cooler weather we are now having, while it was closer to dark pink-purple at times during our 100+ temps in July-Aug.

In the past, I have strongly recommended Braveheart (see link below). However, it has had a bit of BS problem this year--not bad, but some problems--so I'm not sure if it would be a good choice for a no-spray garden. Perhaps other posters who took my advice and bought Braveheart could chime in here and report how disease-resistant their Bravehearts were. We had a strange year this year, so I'm not sure whether it is the rose or the weather that caused the slight problem. Heirloom Roses lists it as "very disease-resistant," for the record.

Good luck,
Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Braveheart thread

WM is pinky purple in my yard, not as purple as the Barden picture above, but then I haven't seen it bloom in cooler weather yet.

If you want a true dark red, get Tradescant. It's exactly as it is in the Austin website.

You guys are fast!

Mike-Thanks for the link-as I feared-the bard is a little off color but I'm looking forward to getting my hands on him just the same.

Kate-your enthusiasm for Braveheart has not gone unnoticed! He's a handsome rose but a bit on the small side (?) and then there's the question of fragrance.

Buford-Nailed it! Just came back from HMF-Rouge Royale looks tempting but I think Tradescant is the rose I want. And DA recommends for zones 9/10 with good repeat and strong fragrance. Quiet about disease resistance tho'

Feeling happy....

Ha ha Kate Even I have Braveheart on my wish list!!

Pauls picture of WS 2000 is really good. Susans/Tivoli_rose picture of WS 2000 is one of the best I have seen. The one where it is wet from rain (I have photographic memory). The colour of WS 2000 can be very different depending on the light and of course the camera .... So it is a bit of a chameleon!!! Which in my opinion just add to its charm. Here is 3 pictures of WS 2000. It is hard to believe it is the same rose!:

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My WS2000 is dusty pink except in real col weather - it is planted in full sun. I will replant it in a shadier spot to get good color.
Prospero seem to keep its darker color better.

Rouge Royale can fade a bit but never so much as WS2000 - and his fragrance is out of this world.

I'm very happy with Fisherman's Friend - a dark red which is very fragrant. Haven't had disease problem with it but though a few roses have defoliated, most are looking good this year.

I think its interesting how Wm. Shakespeare 2000 presents itself in different color variations....mine is slightly different in color here in New Hampshire....it is the deep color you see below for most of its bloom life, only fading slightly to a more purplish-red as it ages. But it is NEVER pink. Mine has a wonderful old-rose fragrance.

Rouge Royale is a rose that even if it weren't for its lovely red color and perfect form, I would grow for its FRAGRANCE alone. Mine is new this summer so I can't comment on disease-resistance or overall health, but mine is very RED and is one of the strongest-scented roses in my garden. In the photo below of the cluster of 3, those perfumed the yard for days.

Celeste

WM. SHAKESPEARE 2000 (with Rosa Mundi)

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ROUGE ROYALE

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CLOSEup OF ROUGE ROYALE

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The tea rose Francis Dubreuil. Or the hybrid tea Barcelona, some say. What ever you call it, that's your drowning rose if you want deep, dark red, good repeat, intense fragrance, and as much disease resistance as you are likely to get from a smelly red. You can get by without spraying it here in my part of California. I make no guarantees for other climates.

Rosefolly

...and the reek of enabling stains the air!

If only WS2K wasn't so fickle-that first shot is a heartbreaker, cupshaped.
Celestial rose, i don't think there's a rose you can't grow! Your zone is very different from mine but i have heard RR enjoys it here as well.
Fisherman's Friend i don't know much about.
Francis Dubreuil sounds like my prince charming. I hate to look a gift frog in the mouth but have to ask-how big?

tradescant
tradescant
tradescant

Wonderful pics !

Do you guys/gals have photos of Falstaff? I just can't seem to distinguish the red Austins. They all looked the same.

jumbojimmy,
Here's a picture of Falstaff (just to confuse the issue....the red Austins do look similiar). It starts out this red, but fades to a deep purple. Its growth habit is to grow up, up and away. Even with pruning it gets gangly.
It does have a good, though not overpowering scent.

Celeste

FALSTAFF
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fading to purple......
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I do not know what's going on with my Francis Dubreuil. It tends to crisp up even in the porch that gets sun only very early in the morning.

Francis D./Barcelona is on the small side, 4.5-5' tall, 3' wide. Upright, twiggy growth habit.

My Tradescant is about 6'x6', or more. It flops and arches and grows every which way.

I have Falstaff and mine is more purple than red. I think it's the soil in my yard, many of the supposedly red roses tend towards purple.

I do like Falstaff's bloom form, flat but ruffled. Mine is in it's first year so I don't know how big it willget.

My tea Marie d'Orleans has gone from a dark pink to a dark cerise. And I love it. It really has filled out this year.

I like that Rouge Royal. I may add it to my 'must haves' for next year.

I grow WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE 2000 in partial shade (Eastern exposure getting about 4-5 hours of direct sunlight a day) and the color is candy apple red that progressively turns purple as the bloom ages (a color transformation typical of David Austin's "crimson" roses). In the coolness of Fall the flowers are much more purple. Flower form is absolute perfection, like a big velvet pincushion. Plant grow about 4' tall with a spreading habit. The variable fragrance smells like a mix of violet and rose with a slight peppery kick. All-in-all WS2000 reminds me of a repeat blooming Gallica.

ROUGE ROYALE is my favorite red rose. For starters the flowers are H-U-G-E! The quartered flower form is almost always perfect. Color is a glowing ruby red with a satiny reverse (i.e. the top of petal is like red velvet and bottom like shimmering satin). Stems are loooooooong and hold the big flowers bolt upright. Fragrance is stratospheric. One of the strongest and most deliciously scented red roses that I've had the pleasure of smelling. One large bloom can perfume an entire room. Petal substance is thick and flowers last a long time in the vase. Also a good repeat bloomer. Growth habit is medium tall and upright, although slightly wider than the typical Hybrid Tea. The shrub presents a really nice profile in the garden. Sounds perfect doesn't it? Well there is just one catch. The blooms have an annoying habit of bleaching to hot pink if left out in full sun. They also sometimes develope these weird twisted centers if too much water collects and pools in the middle for too long a time. Cut just after the bud has "cracked" and brought indoors the color and form stabilize, lasting a good week in the vase. So in summation, ROUGE ROYALE is a phenomenal cut flower rose but of rather limited use as a garden plant.

In Maryland both WS2000 and RR will defoliate from black spot if not regularly sprayed with a fungicide.

BTW, Susan (Tivoli Rose) has some sumptious images of these two roses. I will post them if she gives me permission.

Best regards,

Patrick

Another suggestion: Austin's red introduction for 2008, 'Darcey Bussell'.

Here is a link that might be useful: Darcey Bussell

I have Francis Dubreuil in a pot, now in its second year. It was a tiny twig when I planted it and didn't do much its first season, this year it started to put on a little growth. Right now it has about 6 blooms on it - and the color is much better in the fall, no crispy black petals either. The fragrance is to die for so I keep it near the back door where I can get a waft every time I step outside. Hopefully I can look forward to the third year "leap" and enjoy many more blooms.

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Could I get some advice on exactly what stage to cut WS2000 for the best vase performance?

A comment about disease--- my plant has had little or no blackspot, but it is highly susceptible to (I think) cercospora, which causes leaf drop on him faster than it does on other varieties. This distinction is worth making, since the Ortho fungicide and sulfur do not control cercospora.

Mike Darcey Bussel is NOT really red. Itôs like WS 2000 more reddish purple. Again David Austin Roses have been a little too creative using photoshop!!

See link from the Chelsea flower show below. I also must add that the fragrance IMO really is disappointing both in quality and quantity.

Here is a link that might be useful: Darcey Bussel Chealsea Flower Show 2006

I like the color of Darcy! Actually, I like that color better than the color shown in the catalog. I might have to try Darcy and see how the disease resistance is here in the south.

BTW, I think Rouge Royale makes a fine garden shrub.

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Carol

Cupshaded, Good! I was going to order Darcey anyway, but I really didn't want a red rose, I wanted "poiple".

Cupshaped would you care to comment on Munstead Wood? I hope you say that it is an ugly,unruly shrub with disappointing fragrance - then O will not consider buying it when they offer it in the US, LOL.

I'll be interested in hearing how the experiments with Darcey turn out. I actually like it when red roses go purple -- much better than going orange by my lights. Please do let us know, Carol and Mike.

The only thing I don't like about WS2000 is the octopus arms.

Rosefolly

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned LD Braithwaite. In my garden it beats WS 2000 hands down. The red is a clear ruby color as opposed to the purplish tones of WS 2000. Maybe it is just a healthier shrub, but it is also lusher, fuller and more productive of blooms. I like WS 2000, but I LOVE LD Braithwaite.

I had a LDB, but it wasn't right color and it died. I'd like to get another, but I will get that one from Austin direct.

>>>>>My Tradescant is about 6'x6', or more. It flops and arches and grows every which way.

PERFECT hoovb!

I keep checking back hoping to see Tivoli Rose's WS2K shots...

I certainly The blue-ing towards purple of the dark red Austins as a great quality. Strange but it is considered a bad trait in Hybrid teas. This blue-ing or even deepening of the dark red to almost regal purple is really beautiful in OGRs and Austins. It makes them blend in so well together with OGR
where a bright red would be to LOUD.

francie12 is right LDB does meet the coolor wish of the original poster mauirose. It is a red rose that darkens to sometimes even a dark blackish red. They have a good scent in quality, but very few who have have noses for roses will state that this rose is "so dangerously well scented that grown men drown". And I have never seen a well grown LDB, it is stingy with blooms. In the public park in the city they planted big beds of Austins (LDB, Fallstaff, and WS 2000) it does not take a rose expert to see which rose produces most flowers ... WS 200 wins. All the LDBs I have seen seen produces 5-10 roses in each "flush" LOL.....That is if they do not turn into one cane wonders over the years. It is one of the few roses you plant as with 3 canes when it comes as bare root plant and the number of canes will actually decrease as the years go by... So I would love to see a picture of a well grown specimen of LDB. It will be a first!

I saw Darcey Bussel on the rose fields. I do not like the scent of it and then it will never be planted in my garden. But it does produces a dark red/purple mass of flowers for those who like such a rose.

It really is early to early to write a review of Munstead Wood since I have only had container grown plant since may. But it does look promising. It has shot new basals and are 2 feet tall which is a great improvement over Tradescant who in my climate rarely gets more than a feet tall. And it begins shooting new laterals before the flowers at the end of the canes have are done blooming. It is sort of a mix between Tradescant and WS 2000. The flowers are refined and have a wonderful scent similar to WS 2000. But they are not very large. So I can´t say something bad about Munstead Wood Ceterum ... not yet. IMO WS 2000 is still the best Red/purple Austin ever.

Carol your RR is really well grown ...I am so envious! Well done.

Mauirose. I would go for WS 2000 if it has to an be Austin, especially If you also want to grow it no spray. Watered and fed well in your climate most roses will become what we refer to as low climbers anyway. I have even as I wrote seen Tradescant grown as low climber in California. But the flowers are much darker than WS 2000.

William Shakespeare 2000 has never been red here in our alkaline soil. It has always been magenta darkening to a beautiful purple magenta.

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I have Red Eden coming at the end of the month. I'll let you know about that one because from pictures it looks like a true red to me.

Has anyone grown "Maggie"....I got her this year and have been looking at this big bud that's "fixin" to pop in a day or so.....I'm hoping its a "Big Lusty Red" as advertised. I've read she's a "mound of big, red blooms all season"...Hoping that's the case :)

A rose so dangerously well scented that grown men drown.
* * *

How about Don Juan and make the women drown?

mauirose
I like the description of the rose you seek: very sensuous and poetic. Must be a product of tropical heat.