Do you want to try to save them at this point? It's extremely, majorly unlikely that they are anything rare. 'Extremely humid' weather is simply summer. It's going to happen every year, so don't expect any help from outside.

What fungicide did you use, and how often did you use it? Is this something you are comfortable doing?

It sounds like you got decent advice last year, though I would not say that the problem is older vs. newer varieties. Disease resistant roses are disease resistant roses no matter when they were introduced. Though if you do decide to go that way, say where in the state you are, and ignore advice from more than a couple of hundred miles away. Disease pressure in the east is much higher than further west, and varieties that are fine in Kansas may be disease magnets in Westchester.

Thanks MG.

I'm not sure of the type of fungicide. It was what was suggested to me by the rose guy at the garden center. I can get the name but no, it's not something I'm terribly comfortable pursuing; going psycho with the chemicals freaks me out as we have a pretty good sized veggie garden and pets.

They probably are not rare; but it does seem like a shame to lose them. Guess I'm just being sentimental. Some of them have been out there since the 50's.

I suppose it's time to take them out. I'm in western NY near Rochester; suggestions on new varieties would be great.

Are you using fungicide before the BS appears? The best fungicides, like Bayer Advanced disease control and Infuse, work best if applied at one week intervals before you see any sign of disease. Longer intervals may work if you have light disease pressure. The better fungicides are often completely effective even with with the worst varieties--but only a few exhibitors can maintain this level of effort all year long.

Hello Rubystheory,
I'm sure you will get excellent advice here. You may also want to contact the local rose society, and explain your situation. They may have a consulting rosarian nearby that would be able to give you good advice and help in person.
I'm about an hour and a half east of Rochester, and can tell you that roses can be grown very successfully in the general area. It's much easier with a little help from someone local with experience.
Good luck to you with this.
Starina

Here is a link that might be useful: Greater Rochester Rose Society

RE: Zack

Yes, I was applying the fungicide before the BS appears. It's definitely a pain in the butt to stay on a solid schedule, and I did basically give up after it seemed it wasn't making a difference. If I do try to save any of them, I will get a better fungicide for next year and try to stay on top of it better. It may be easier with 4 or 5 plants out there vs. 20.

Starina, thank you for the link. I will contact them. It would be a darn shame to lose all of these plants.

How much sun does your garden get? I ask, because roses are sun-lovers, and what might have been a sunny bed back in the 50s might now be somewhat shady because the surrounding trees have grown up and out during the intervening years. Check and see if your roses are getting at least 6 hours of sun every day. Less sun usually increases blackspot problems. In that case, you may have to move the roses to a better spot, if you want to go on growing roses.

As for spraying, if you want to get rid of blackspot, you either spray--or invest in roses that are more disease-resistant. If you spray, you need to get on a schedule that doesn't overwhelm you. I suggest you use Bayer Advanced Garden Disease Control for Roses, Flowers, and Shrubs and apply it every two weeks during the spring and maybe every three weeks during the summer and fall. Applied regularly, it should control your blackspot problem. (You can get this fungicide at Lowes, but not at places like Wal-mart or Home Depot.)

My other thought is that you need to make sure your roses are getting enough water. If not, that may weaken them and make them more susceptible to diseases.

Do you have any idea what kinds of roses you have? I'm guessing hybrid teas (which were very popular back in the 50s--and still are). If so, they are often disease-susceptible. Why don't you dig up one of your worst spotters and plant the hybrid tea "Elina." She is a creamy white with moderate yellow highlights in the center--and VERY disease-resistant. It would be interesting to see how she fares next year, compared to the other roses.

Hope that helps.

Kate

I'm not sure the Bayer is approved for sale in New York. It didn't used to be, and last I heard Bayer had no intentions of jumping through the necessary hoops.

Rubystheory, I used to live in that area and I found it fairly easy to grow roses there. I think Kate may have hit on the problem. That area isn't the sunniest of places and roses need lots of sun. Look in helpmefind.com Do a search there for disease resistance and you should see a ton of roses for zone5-6. You may not want to get rid of the roses but think of the fun you'll have shopping for new ones? Welcome to our forum.

I don't spray anymore, and am pleased with that decision. I lost at least 2/3 or 3/4 of my roses when I made that decision -- and those were roses I loved.

If you don't love the roses, and if you don't have a sentimental attachment, why keep them? If you are going to work much of the summer on the roses, you should select pretty ones.

I suggest that you not spray your vegetables. If you spray and cannot move the veggies, at least cover them while you spray.

Before you call a Master Gardener or Consulting Rosarian, why don't you decide whether or not you are going to spray.

Do some research, and decide what you want, then go for it.

My zone is too far south for me to recommend much, but there are good modern roses, and good old roses.

Good luck

I think Dublinbay had a great suggestion, remove one or two of the existing roses and replace them with new ones that are known to be disease resistant in your area and see how the new ones do compared to the old. That way you're not pulling out all of the existing roses, but you still get to see if there are others that will do better for you. If your new roses preform much better and don't have any disease problems it will probably be much easier for you to then pull out the rest of the old roses and replace them.

Good Luck!

Bayer tried to "jump through the necessary hoops". New York did not approve 3 of their products that contain tebuconazole.

See the thread linked to below.

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

Ruby, you've come to the *right place*!!!

Out here is SoCal, mildew is the demon (MadGallica, I beg to differ on who has the most fungal pressure!!!) and rust is really annoying. I used to think it was my fault that the roses that I grew didn't thrive because I wasn't disciplined enough to spray them enough (not to mention the environmental aspect, but this was years ago).

Segue to the Internet and this forum, lots of lurking and I realized that *it wasn't me*!!! Not to mention the fact that I'm not getting any younger (50 is the new 30, right???). Back in the day I would nurse *everything* in the garden. It's the journey, right? Plus I felt guilty. Not any more! I hope you have the same enlightenment and education that this forum uniquely brings that I did AND at a much earlier time.

Bottom line: it's not your fault and plant what grows well in your area and THAT will make you happy!!!

I think that the value of old roses a lot higher if one has records that identify what they are. After all, if it is the last one of its kind, there is no way to positively identify it--even with DNA testing. But, it its name is known, and DNA testing becomes affordable, it can be used to help spot misidentified roses.

What you are attempting to do will never be an easy task. Accomplishable, yes, but the labor and compromises required are likely to make caring for such "life support roses" an unpleasant task. I suggest removing all of the ones that cannot thrive with minimal care and replacing them with varieties proven to prosper without studious chemical intervention.

The bottom line is this: your comments clearly show that you aren't enjoying the task of caring for such high-maintenance roses, so fix the problem at its core: get rid of these and find roses that are easier to care for. Many of the Explorer series roses and numerous species and once-blooming European varieties require little more than watering and some pruning to maintain size/shape.

No rose is worth keeping if its needs exceed your patience or violates your "healthy planet policies".

If your roses are Hybrid Teas they could have cane hardiness issues that might be a problem for them.

I grow antique and modern roses without spraying, I've not found that blackspot has a detrimental effect on them. I wonder if there is something else in your garden causing them to die, perhaps not enough sun, root competition, or lack of cane hardiness.

If you like the roses, I'd recommend keeping them. I don't think I'd prune now, except perhaps in autumn a light pruning if you want to keep very tall canes from whipping in the wind.

Thank you for all the excellent thoughts all, and sorry to disappear; I didn't realize the thread had grown so!

The insufficient sun query is an interesting thought; up until a month ago, we had a MONSTROUS tree in the yard (which is very small) which certainly affected the sun in the garden area. We had it removed after it threw two giant limbs at our house in a one month span. It hasn't really been long enough to see what sort of an impact that will have and the black spot was already well established at that point, but I hadn't thought of that.

I do like the idea of replacing a couple of the more damaged plants with modern varieties and seeing how they fare next year. Combined with the added sun, I'm sort of excited to see what sort of a difference it makes.

In the last week, most of the plants have shot forth new flowers, which was pretty unexpected- they went from bare to bud to flower seemingly overnight. The humidity has been MUCH lower and the whole garden seems to be breathing a sigh of relief. I may see if I can get some pictures before the flowers fade.

Thank you for all the guidance. I'll keep checking in and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions!

Hang in there...thoses roses will be back next year and without the tree, you may find a new situation. I've had best luck with daconil or immunox for blackspot in this area....but keep up improving the air flow and increasing sunshine. Another thought; do your roses get watered, and when? Watering in morning is best.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings

I have eight bushes of "Double Delight" planted together that almost died last year due to black spot. I cleaned up after defoliation, and put heap of new compost and winter mulch to cover 1/3 of the bush.

This early spring, I sprayed it with Daconil. Then, they came back nicely this year without much problems. The neighboring roses that did well last year and did not get much attentions got BS this year very badly.

BS is just a fungus. When you kill them at a right time, it does not bother you much. But when it does, it is so debilitating to my soul.

Before you decide to spray with Daconil, I suggest that you look at the properties of its active ingredient, CHLOROTHALONIL. See link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: scorecard link for CHLOROTHALONIL