This is such a good question - I have found that in the warm climate I live in NO sources of size info for OGRs are reliable, except for gardeners on here who grow the roses in similar conditions. I am in No Cal, not Dallas but I do grow 4 of the roses on your list -

Cramoisi Superieur - growing in partial shade - 6 ft wide by 5 ft tall

Mrs Dudley Cross - too soon to tell - is only 1 yr old, but has spread out very low to the ground about 3 ft across. I am told it will then put up vertical canes, which mine is starting to, except that a doe has been living in that part of our garden with her fawn for several months, so the vertical canes are getting pruned!

Duchesse de Brabant - in full sun is 8 ft tall by 8 ft wide

Mme Joseph Schwartz - this is said to be a sport of DdB, which I totally believe, because it sports back to DdB once in a while. Mine is growing in partial shade, and that is what has probably kept it to about 4 feet across and 5 feet tall.

Jackie

Hi mesigh, welcome to the forum!

I, too live in the Dallas area, and grow a few of the roses you mention. I've found they get WAY bigger than what they advertise, as I've found out the hard way, so would plant them a lot further apart than recommended.

Will try to take a few pictures in the morning to show you what Souv de la Malmaison, Duchess de Brabant and Belinda's Dream look like after about 5 years. I have hesitated to prune, but am thinking after our fall bloom will HAVE to cut some of them back.

A small group of us plan to meet at the Fall Celebration of Roses in Farmers Branch in October, would love to meet you and talk roses!

What area of Dallas do you live in?

I would love to see the pictures of these roses in Texas!

Jackie, thanks for the info. Isn't it interesting that the official sources don't even tip their hat, so to speak, at how large roses can get in a hot climate?

Ogrose, thanks for the welcome. I'm really looking forward to seeing your photos! I would love to get together at the Fall Celebration (assuming, of course, that my crazy schedule allows). Since all my learning about roses so far has been book-learning, I'd contribute lots of questions and few answers to the conversation.

Mauvegirl, what roses do you grow?

Hello, and welcome to the forum. Not living in your area I'm afraid I can't help on size, but would just like to mention that in many areas (including my dry, hot one), Old Blush is extremely fond of mildewing, especially right below the flowers. I wouldn't grow it again, although otherwise it's a pretty rose. It might not have that problem in your area, but others have also commented on this habit.

Good luck with your roses!

Ingrid

I took pictures this morning, but it wouldn't let me send, says file is too large, so here is a picture of Belinda's Dream taken last spring.

Ingrid, thanks for the word of warning on Old Blush.

Ogrose, how beautiful! She's huge! Would you say about 10' high x 8' wide? And what's growing beneath her? Evening primrose? Just lovely.

All them "official" books were written in England -- and they just don't speak to the way things grow in the American South and SouWest.

You'll have a lot better luck with the "Tea Bags" book -- "TEA ROSES: Old Roses for Warm Gardens." (Authors, the "Tea Bags" -- Lynne Chapman, Noelene Drage, Di Durston, Jenny Jones, Hillary Merrifield, and Billy West) This is the book we wished for, for years.

The ladies from Oz did a great job. And their Australian conditions are more like what we're used to.

Also, check Mike Shoup's books: Landscaping With Antique Roses, and The Empress Of The Garden.

Some things I know -- Coastal SoCal -- far cooler than you are, and foggy much of the year. Occasionally (as today) hot and desert-dry.

Ducher
*** A friend in NoCal found a white rose near an old Chapel, because it blooms mightily through the winter, she SN it "White Christmas." But it's Ducher, right enough. It seems to grow slowly at first, and she said for a long time it was about 4-ft. THEN, she put a fence behind it, and it shot up to 8 ft.!

Louis Phillippe -- Mine is 8-ft. tall, and wider than it is tall.

Jeri

Beautiful! I had no idea just how big: Even after reading your
description (prior to posting the photo)

Have you ever pruned the slightest bit?

I have 3 'Belinda's Dream'. The blooms are plump, gorgeous strawberry milkshake pink, the fragrance has been repeatedly described as luscious raspberries.

Mine are less than 2 years old. I think your photo may have us
to rethink spacing!

This rose is a 'must-have' in a garden! Enabling!

mesigh, I'm guessing it's about 6-7 feet tall, and about that wide; I was sitting on the ground, so it looks taller than it actually is. I have never pruned, but have decided that early next year (Feb), everything is getting a haircut and shaping...

Yes, that is evening primrose, gorgeous in spring, but what a mess to clean up after blooming is done. This is one of those plants that will come back year after year, and spreads EVERYWHERE!!

I'm guessing my Souv de la Malmaison and Duchesse de Brabant are about the same size, all packed in together along with G Nabbonand, lol! Then add the roses I have planted in back of those, and we have a jungle along my back fence... I can't tell you how long I spent planning for size, etc. and that is what happened! Love every one of them though. Mother Nature has her own plans, for sure!

ogrose

I also live in D/FW. Of the ones on your list, I've grown Mrs Dudley Cross, Duchesse de Brabant, Belinda's Dream, Souvenir de la Malmaison, Gruss an Aachen, Cramoisi Superieur, Marie Pavie, and Marie Daly.

All of them got huge except for Marie Pavie/Daly (stays wonderfully small), Gruss an Aachen (over many years can be medium sized but very easy to keep small), and SDLM (a sturdy mid-size rose for me).

Although they get large here, be sure you plant Duchesse de Brabant and Maggie. In my opinion, they are the fragrant grand dames of the Texas garden. And will reward you beyond imagination for years to come.

Randy

Oh, Jeri, books! I LOVE books. If I have Mike Shoup's Landscaping with Antique Roses, will I get more information from The Empress of the Garden? It certainly sounds like an enjoyable read, in any case. (The only danger with books is that I'm prone to keep reading and planning, rather than actually planting!)

Mauvegirl, I rather think that I must get Belinda's Dream, even if I don't get anything else.

Ogrose, I was wondering if evening primrose would work as a companion to roses. I wouldn't mind if it spread everywhere, it's so lovely, but I don't think my husband would like for our lawn to be filled with it.

Randy, thanks for more information from DFW for how huge these roses get. Oh, I do want Duchesse de Brabant and Maggie (and, and, and ...). If I only had more space. Mostly I like having a lot of shade, but it does interfere with growing roses.

So, I do have one little area of full sun for about 7 hours at the front (southwest) corner of our lot. We are the corner house, and I was thinking that I could put in a quarter-circle shaped bed at the corner, maybe with a radius of 12-14 feet. What would you put in that space?