Ingrid -- I honestly think that, in your very hot climate, you are not going to succeed with ANY rose, up against a house wall. Any faint hope would have to be the East wall, or N.E., so you got ONLY morning sun.

I say this, because even here at the coast (where it is much, much cooler and more humid) we have had trouble with roses growing up against our big, long, South-Facing retaining wall. We THOUGHT that we could grow climbers against it, but -- no. Any inch of exposed cane burned and re-burned, and eventually became completely non-productive. I think something like that is happening to you.

The closest we have come to success is to place 4 x 4 supports against the wall, with latticework panels nailed to those. A couple of feet out from THAT, we've planted very "leafy" roses, a couple of feet out from the wall. Two 'Tina Marie' bushes have done well in that situation.

If you really need to put a rose there, I suggest you try something along those lines.

Visiting the Chambersville Heirloom Rose Garden earlier this year, in TX, showed me that young own-root roses really do need TIME to show what they can do. In a very hot area (tho with unlimited water, thank goodness) I could see that most of the roses there were FAR less-mature and big after 5-6 years than I had expected. It's a dream still not fully realized, tho you can see what it will become.

Jeri

Jeri, thank you for addressing this subject. The wall faces S.W. One end of it that gets shade sooner is supporting a very lusty Aunt Margy's Rose that has grown to over six feet, even though it's a polyantha. Next to it I have Cl. Lady Hillingdon in what is obviously not an optimal spot, but it also has earlier shade than Reve d'Or, which has the most sunny, westerly exposure. Since this is a very narrow bed, I can't really utilize your suggestion of the supports with latticework. What makes that area even hotter is the paved sidewalk right next to it. I'm afraid I'm going to have to rethink having a climber or even any rose there.

Ingrid

The fawn takes a while to get going. Mine was a real dud for 5 years. I took Jerijen's advice and stopped all pruning on it. It got really wide and brambly and now repeats non stop. It had flowers forming and opening in near 100 degree temps. A completely different rose now.

There are plenty of shameful roses here that begged to be given away:

1) Radio Times: the ungrateful dog pricked me yesterday when I placed a hose to water it. I was thinking about killing it, until it redeemed itself with a gorgeous smelly bloom. Someone else posted a thread about killing his/her Radio Times for nasty thorn.

2) Pat Austin - I gave one away, keep one. The smell makes me nauseated, reminds me of spitting-tobacco mixed with nectarine. She lasts 1/2 day in the vase, enough to prick me.

3) Evelyn - can be gorgeous our cool and wet spring/fall, but the color becomes dinky grayish pink, like a dirty tissue. The 4' octopus canes got to me, so I chopped down canes and flowers. More octopus canes to come in our humid heat, then all-day rain.

4) Scepter'd Isle - this becomes huge with octopus canes, best for a park. Two other people said the same.

5) Charles Darwin - I should had paid attention to previous thread, "Charles Darwin - the most miserable rose". It has 140+ petals, deep cups translate to won't bloom unless it's all day rain in fertile soil with cool temp. Even then the bloom is dirty beige, rather than yellow like in the catalog.

6) Lilian Austin - this is a HUGE bush at the rose park. It's tiny as own-root here, but prick me plenty. It's second most thorny, after Radio Times.

7) Eglantyne - my own-root hates alkaline soil and gave me only 2 blooms The grafted one at the rose park has the most is 5 blooms per flush.

I water roses with a hand hose, and dead-head often, hence I get prickled more. Our humid weather and 40" annual rain make Austins huge, more chance for stabbing while pruning.

Note: the above applies to MY GARDEN ONLY. Niels in Denmark, with acidic clay soil, lots of rain, and MUCH COOLER summer, posted Austins loaded with blooms.

My summer has dry heat, then humid heat, then all-day-rain. My soil is very alkaline at pH 7.7, tested high in nitrogen ad low in potassium. EarthCo. that tested my soil stated that 1/3 of soil tested are deficient in potassium, necessary for blooms. Austins without the potassium shoot up huge octopus canes, rather than blooming. Lime in alkaline tap water drives down potassium.

All my Austins are own-root in zone 5a. Radio Times were small last year, this year it became 5' x 6'. I almost bought Benjamin Britten, until I found a thread that stated it gets 6' tall. All soils are different, and all climates are different, so what I wrote is FOR MY GARDEN ONLY.

Kitty, that's good to know about The Fawn. I had been pruning mine, although rather lightly. No more.

Strawberryhill, I had to smile at your post. I'm not smiling though when Le Vesuve sinks its claws into me.

Charles Darwin must have had perfect conditions the first spring after I bought it. Truly gorgeous, golden color, wonderful shape. A total disaster since, and I'm kicking it to the curb to make room for a more grateful rose.

I see your "dogs" are all Austins. I have nothing but praise for my own-root Potter and Moore, gorgeous in every way. However, it is young so I'll withhold further gushing until I see how it develops. It's already getting tall for its spot so I may have to move it. Always something...

Ingrid

The puppies jumped on the kitchen counter yesterday and ate 5/6 of a cherry pie and most of a cotton pot holder. Now that is what qualifies for the Hall Of Shame.

I will finally dump 'Eugene de Beauharnais' and give 'The Prince' his prime spot. 'Eugene' has a heavenly fragrance, but the flowers are often unattractive, and the plant is always unattractive. I'm giving up on 'Vineyard Song', too. Getting depressed watching it struggle.

It is easier and easier to make decisions about which roses go and which stay. I ask myself: is it worth the precious water I am giving it?

Ah Hoov, you've progressed to about the stage I have. You don't want to know our water bill, following on these weeks of dire heat. As water becomes more precious, there is less and less reason to waste it on a plant that doesn't give me pleasure.

Jeri

Strawberry, I thought you loved your Evelyn and Scepter'd Isle?

My dogs are the same dogs as they have been since I planted their body bags. But for now they keep their spots because I don't have the bands I want to grow to plant in those spots.

I am loving Young Lycidas, and it seems it likes the location as well.

Golden Celebration gets my vote. It's solid black spot right now and I haven't seen a bloom in months. It is just about the only grafted rose I have, and it has about 2 canes that stick up in the air in a most unattractive manner.

New Dawn also gets the Hall of Shame. It's the most thorny rose I have, and a lot of it died back in the drought last summer, and cutting those long canes out of the fence is a real act of devotion....

AS for water, I save all rain water that I can in buckets and rain barrels, and save the water from my central a/c and water as much as I can with that. When I run the a/c a lot, I can get 15-20 gallons/day. With a/c conservation, I get around 10. Sometimes it helps to live in a humid climate!

My stinker (of the moment) is Intrigue. I've had it for almost three years, and it's declined to only two canes. Stingy with bloom, and is always the first (and often the only!) plant with blackspot. Bah.

No qualms about my austins though. They seem to love my garden. :)

Hi Kippy: I liked Scepter'd Isle and Evelyn when I first bought them in COOL and WET spring. They had better colors and scent back then. As the summer heat progresses, they throw octopus canes with acculumated lime from my well water, less scent, and become very thorny.

I look forward to cool and wet fall when their colors improve, more blooms with acidic rain-water, and less octopus canes. Last year I was nuts about Radio Times, this year it becomes a HUGE thorny mess, and I resent the ugly bush which demands lots of water, plus painful pricks.

It' funny how I hated Paul Neyron when I first bought him and planted him in a poor hot steep hill - he fried. Now he's in partial shade, good soil, and is healthy with my alkaline water. The scent is heavenly in hot weather. Thornless Paul Neyron is up there with Annie L. McDowell as my favorite roses.

eahamel, my Golden Celebration (grafted) is now into its fifth or sixth (or could it be seventh?) round of blooming and no blackspot. I didn't even spray him because I've been planning to get rid of him for months & didn't want to waste expensive poison on a doomed rose (I spray preventatively).

Yellow roses bother me. I discovered it only AFTER GC started blooming.

Perhaps the Hall of Shame needs cruel gardeners who bump off roses right and left?

One person's Hall of Shame is another's Hall of Fame. Climate makes such a difference with roses. The past three summers here have been fairly mild. I haven't fed or watered any more than I normally do and have had an amazing bloom. I hate to complain about a rose. As soon as i do it seems it takes off.

I broke out laughing at what WinterCat stated: " I didn't even spray Golden Cel. because I didn't want to waste expensive poison on a doomed rose..." That's funny!

I don't spray in my Chicagoland garden. Golden Celebration is clean in my PARTICULAR alkaline clay and limy well water. It's a HUGE water-hog, but I keep it since it's healthy and smells good. Same reason with Radio Times, I would have to move this to the front: out of sight, and let Mother Nature waters it. If it dies, I don't care, the risk of being poked far outweighs its sweet Damask scent, health, and the stunning blooms.

I love Suzy's (Camp's) honesty and enjoy reading her witty comments. Regarding what Suzy wrote: "Summer Song - what a waste of space - you can all be grateful it is largely unavailable in the US. 3 blooms on a straggly BS ridden plant - seriously not good enough." Niels in Denmark, zone 5b, reported that it's not hardy for him. Another person in zone 6 reported it dying to the crown in the winter. Others report that it's a weak plant and a stingy bloomer.

Robert Neil Rippetoe bred Abraham Darby with a yellow Poulsen to produce a deep orange rose, intense fruity scent, similar to Summer Song, but with vigor for cold zone. I already asked him for seeds to test in my zone 5a.

When I was searching for a better orange than Pat Austin, Kim Rupert recommended a floribunda bred by Fryer, "Casanova" - tons of blooms, great scent, lots of praises for that one. Check out the link below for 2000 stunning ruffled orange floribunda "Casanova" sold at Pickering and overseas.

Here is a link that might be useful: Casanova rose - Fryer floribunda from England

If I didn't abhor orange roses I would get Casanova in a heartbeat - it's really beautiful otherwise (forgive me orange rose lovers).

Ingrid

WinterCat, the Hall of Shame already has a cruel gardener - that would be me. I had to give away Julia Child and sent several others to heaven because I realized that yellow and apricot-orange simply wouldn't work for me. The honorable exception is Cl. Lady Hillingdon but she has an old gold color and is not mixed in with the other roses. Life is too short to hang on to roses that offend your eye every day, no matter how beautiful they may otherwise be.

Ingrid

ah yes, Gareth Fryer does breed some startling roses (as does McGredy), A bit bright for my garden but he is a seriously good breeder if you are fond of cheerful floribundas. Wins a lot of awards. Sweet Dream has been consistently one of the most popular roses in the UK since it was born.

Sweet Dream is really pretty (I looked it up). Does anyone know who's selling it in the US?