I've only seen it once -- we can't grow Gallicas -- but it was breathtaking. Not to be forgotten. If I could grow it, I would.

Jeri

Its beautiful, to be sure. But if you grow any of the other dark Gallicas like 'Hippolyte', 'Cardinal de Richelieu', or 'Tuscany Superb' etc., then it becomes rather redundant. A beautiful dark hue, but not unlike many of the others.

I am really fond of it. I can say it is beautiful and healthy. It doesn't sucker as badly as Tuscany Superb.

I only have Tuscany Superb right now that I've seen bloom. Planted Belle Herminie and Rook this past spring. Got a couple dark HPs planned for next spring....

Also, planted Comice de Tarn-et-Garonne and Munstead Woods this spring. They aren't all the same pinks, but somewhere in the same ballpark. Is this where Orpheline would fall?

It's much more to the shade of Tuscany than Munstead Woods. There are some good photos on HMF.

Picture on Palatine's site is way lighter. Maybe they don't have the correct photo for the rose uploaded. If its like Tuscany, I'll probably pass this time around. I've already planned roses for purchase similar to Tuscany and in the dark reds and red/purples.

Here is a link that might be useful: Orpheline de Juillet at Palatine

Maybe Palatine just used a wrong photo. They describe it as Dark crimson purple with bright red centre.

I got "Orpheline de Juillet" from Vintage this spring. What's odd was that the page read: NO LONGER IN OUR COLLECTION...yet it appeared available so I said what the heck, ordered it and received it. I see two different versions on HMF: a Hybrid China, 1837 and Gallica / Provins, before 1836. Vintage called it a Hybrid China. So far it's growing well but didn't bloom this year. I do love deep colors so I hope that's what I get when it finally blooms.

"Hybrid China" is the term used to describe hybrids that quickly emerged when the true Chinas entered into commerce in Europe. They were inevitably bred with the Gallicas in an effort to produce repeat-blooming shrubs with some of the best of the Gallica traits (fuller blooms, richer coloring). 'Orpheline de Juillet' ("Orphan of July") is one of these early hybrids between the two classes, and thought it remains largely Gallica in appearance, it did not inherit the two sets of remontancy genes needed to make it a repeat bloomer. That would come in a subsequent generation. (If it were used in breeding, which we know nothing about)

Probably the cuttings came from my plant, which did originally come from Vintage. it is lost in that garden but lives on here.

This is the rose that I received from Vintage last summer as Orpheline de Juillet. I have this feeling this might not be right, can anyone who knows this rose comment?

I know growing conditions can affect color, so FWIW this gets afternoon only sun, and I swear there must be something about my soil or water that makes everything pinker than it ought to be.

Thanks!

I LOVE this rose..one of my favorites. Mine receives filtered and afternoon sun as well. Here's a pic..enjoy!

Alana, where did you get your Orpheline? Yours is beautiful and so healthy! Carol

Alana, your Orpheline is so beautiful, and it's growing in SC? Just half a zone away from me and my Gallica envy down here in the Lowcountry? And you don't have to do anything weird like dumping coolers full of ice cubes on it for weeks on end?

So close, and yet so far; I'm guessing you probably also live in a part of the state where peaches get enough winter chill hours to set fruit?

She really is lovely...

Wistfully,
Virginia

Thanks Carol and Virginia! I got ODJ from Rogue Valley. I guess she likes the colder winter weather we are getting :) What part of SC do you live Virginia? I'm actually zone 8a But at the time for some reason when I made this account they were saying 7b. I live about midstate in lee county, Hartsville side, because I live across lynches river going toward Hartsville. I got six inches or so when we had that snow , about three I think once it melted and froze back because of the rain. at least an inch of ice. The actual city of Bishopville got a dusting compared to what I got ten minutes away.The peach orchid is less than an hour from here I believe. :)

Hi Alana-

I'm in the Charleston area, and I've been to Bishopsville, but don't recall ever visiting Hartsville. My mom's from Sumter, so I still get to that part of the world every so often to visit relatives.

We did get a little snow this past winter, but nothing like 6 inches. I do have to remind myself that there is a price to pay for being able to grow those chill-dependent roses, but golly, they are gorgeous... Does your 'Orpheline' look that good even when we don't have such a cold winter?

I've been told that you can grow peaches anywhere in the state outside of the coastal plain. Around here, some people grow peach trees for the flowers and foliage, but any fruit they get isn't usually edible.

What are your other favorite roses that you grow? I've just bought my first roses (3 teas and a Noisette), and am looking around to see what else might do well here...

Thanks,
Virginia

Hey Virginia,

I just received her April of 2013, next year I will really know, but as of now she is looking great no rust or disease at all. I think she likes it here. I was told for my climate to grow teas, chinas, and noisettes. I didn't listen, I did order some of those, but loved the look of others so much that I ordered all I wanted. Souv. du dr. Jamain loves it here as well. :) A couple are not doing the greatest, but I still love them. I believe I have most of them listed if you look at my page. I say if one catches your eye try it ...you may have the right micro-climate for it..you never know for certain until you try :)

We don't usually get so much snow..used to get none at all except every once in a while but the last 3 or so winters we have got some..usually a inch or so..nothing like this past winter.

I love all my roses! I do have a couple to add later once I see how they do, but I wouldn't be without none of them.

RDH: That color is just nowhere near my Orpheline. Mine is like Alana'sâ¦very very dark. It's in a pot. I have no idea what the pH isâ¦
But who knows? Some of my roses change shade with every flush. Munstead Wood and Crown Princess Margaretta are deepening with every flushâ¦
Susan

Alana, it sounds like you're doing a great job of figuring out which of the roses you love are also roses you can grow.

I look forward to seeing more pix... and I never get tired of seeing photos of SDDJ (hint, hint!)...

Enjoy!
Virginia

I am doubting if mine is Orpehiline. Aside from color, my leaves look a bit roundish compared to what I see in others pics. I need to find my paperwork from Vintage, I wonder I got a substitute and didn't notice.

Ratdogheads did you ever figure out what your rose was? I was just reading some old threads and came across this one. Your roses is still very beautiful either way!

I'm only certain that the the rose Vintage sold me was intended to be "Orpheline de Juliet". I have an email confirming availability, the invoice says "Orpheline de Juliet" and I can identify everything else on that order, so no planting mixup happened. Of course, they might have accidentally sent me the wrong rose.

Note the quotes on the name and their own cryptic ID: "mysterious as is its original name. There was a rose named 'Orpheline de Juillet'; this is not it."

It darkened up a bit last year, I'd call it a dusky lavender. As I've said before everything is pinker in my garden, and I my experience is that my roses deepen in color with maturity. Still it's hard to believe what I have is what they described: "Very deep blue-purple to black petals of a silken sheen, cupped and scalloped, with a pale lavender eye". That's what yours looks like Alana.

I wonder if Vintage's "OdJ" is the same one we see sold by other vendors now. HMF lists two different OdJ's and I believe the one sold by Vintage is the one classed as a hybrid china, a found rose from Heritage Gardens and James Sagmiller. There are no photos with this listing. My rose certainly doesn't look like the photos associated with the other classed as a gallica. Even the foliage is different. I also wonder if the rose Vintage described in 2000, which they said was missing from their collection in 2006, is the same rose that they sold me in 2013.

I love a mystery but I wish I knew what it was in order to recommend it to others. It's been tucked away in a rather dark corner that I forget to water or fertilize yet it thrives and last year produced more blooms in one long flush than most of my remontant roses. Add to that disease free, fragrant, and hardy.

Well that's good your mystery turned out to be such a good rose! Do you have a up-to date picture? I didn't realize there was two different roses by that name. I think mine is a hybrid china..or atleast I thought that was what RVR classed it as. That is where I got mine. I love a mystery as well, but like you said you can't recommend it when you don't have a name. Although I have traded and recommended some of my no-name roses. I actually am trading a few this year..she said she loved mystery roses! I also traded one 3 or 4 years ago and they named it after me :)

To me, it just sounds like a typical member of the larger gallica class. It is only remarkable if it fails to take over the world.

Haha yeah guess so mad_gallica!

Alana, can you tell me how big your Orpheline de Juillet is and if it is still healthy in your climate?

Mine is about 6 feet tall by 4 feet wide and is very healthy.

Ratdogheads any update on your mystery beauty? Also, what to you think about Rush Family Gallica? Or does it look wrong? Was reading old threads again, and came across your mystery, and was trying to think of what it could be.

I also got Rush Family Gallica from RVRs and it does look similar to Ratdoghead's rose, I think too.

Gosh I'd forgotten all about this. I lost this rose last winter :( 2 years of fighting midge + groundhogs and finally the most damaging winter/spring in New England in recent memory.

Did Vintage also feel Rush Family Gallica? I'm looking at it on HMF, hard to say but I think the blooms were more petite, button-like.

I miss Vintage!

I don't find Rush Family Gallica in my Vintage Gardens Rose Book. My blooms on this plant were small, but it was a baby band from RVRs, so it's a miracle it could manage blooms at all.

They sold duc d'Angoulême and its supposed to be the same as rush family gallica.

But it is really hard to tell

So many different ones!! Lots of different hybrid chinas and all.

So sorry you lost it! It was worth spreading around , such a shame it wasn't. It was a beauty :)