Another ID - Orphelline de Juillet?

14 years ago

I ordered this rose last year - it is supposed to be Orphelline de Juillet. It has sort of mounded over and made a beautiful growth habit for itself, i was really looking forward to the bloom. From what I read I was expecting something very dark.

"The flowers are a crimson red with blotches and streaks of pure purple"

Something like a Mad Gallica!

Often mistaken for 'Cardinal de Richelieu' ...

etc.

Now that it is blooming, it is much lighter than I thought, almost pink. The growth pattern seems to fit. It is supposed to be larger, sprawling and thornier than most gallicas, and that sounds about right. I'm wondering if it is the right rose? If so, do the blooms get darker as the rose matures? This is it's first season of bloom so I'm not sure . . . it is certainly fragrant!

(oh, mine is grafted, not ownroot)

Thanks!

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Comments (5)

patriciae_gw
14 years ago
I went out and hopped some slugs(it rained finally!) to look at the one I have from Rogue Valley which is very very dark crimson and light around the base of the petals and nothing like yours at all, the flower of which looks alot like the Pickering not Orpheline but I dont know about the rest of the plant-I never noticed it to be particularlly thorny. The Rogue Valley rose is extreemly thorny with wacking big thorns on the older wood and lots of mixed stuff on the young. You have frills on your sepals and my RVR OJ does not. It does sprawl as well...having said all that RVR OdJ does not look like the picture of OdJ in Joyaux..how I do wish I could read French. The picture lacks the velvety quality of the RVR OP nor does it have the pale base to the petals. He mentions 'longs sepals'...and there you are...what ever your rose doesnt look like either one. I will be down at the bottom of the property later this morning..I will take a look at Pickering NotOdJ.

patricia
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rjlinva
14 years ago
The picture of the Pickering Orpheline de Juliet looks similar to the OdJ that I got from Pickering a couple years ago. I don't think Pickering is selling the correct rose (as OdJ). Whatever the gallica is that Pickering is selling as OdJ is a wonderful rose nonetheless. It would be nice to get a correct ID of this rose.
Robert
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patriciae_gw
14 years ago
Paul Barden has posted earlier that he got the correct PdJ from Pickering several years ago. That would mean that they did at one time know what the NotOdJ was. As I remember this rose is from Hortico right? I did go down and look at my NOdJ and it does look alot like this Not. Right next to my NOdJ was a Pickering Ombree Parfait which bears a striking resemblence to RVR Orpheline. Vintage says that Ombree Parfait is Alice Vena-at this point I tear my hair in despair..and you are right Robert, that Pickering Not is a really lovely rose-and yes, thorny.

patricia
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cziga
Original Author
14 years ago
Are you kidding? The Orpheline de Juillet from Pickering isn't the right one? I'm almost 100% sure one was from Pickering, so that explains that. I guess it won't be maturing into the right colour then, lol :)

How is it that this mixup is common knowledge and yet they (Pickering) have never fixed it?

I actually really like this rose, despite the fact that it is not what I wanted . . . smells beautiful, lovely shape to it, etc . . . only problem is, I really needed a darker rose for that spot, not a light pink. I wish I had known . . .

I guess I can't ask Pickering to send another as a replacement, as they would just send the same one again. Have they been made aware of their error? If not, I will certainly email them to let them know. At least then they can get to work on sending the right rose, and perhaps identifying this one. It is certainly worth growing in it's own right.

I am disappointed though. I guess I will have to get Orpheline from Hortico next Spring, and I've not had the best luck with Hortico!
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cziga
Original Author
14 years ago
Just as a follow up:

I emailed Pickering and let them know that not only had I not received the right rose, but it seemed to be a common problem and that it appeared as though they were selling a mislabelled rose. No point in continuing this practise :)

This is the reply I received today:

---
We received the budwood for this variety directly from a reputable source in the U.K. for the plants we budded in the last few years. We must have received the incorrect budwood from them. I do not know which rose you did receive. If you feel that you are certain that you know its identity I would appreciate your input as we do have some of these plants in our fields still.

We are not going to sell the plants that we budded for this season and will discontinue Orphelline de Juillet. We may take it up again if we can get a reliable source for budwood, but that will take a while to become saleable
plants.

Sorry for any disappointment you may have experienced.

---

So if anyone has any ideas as to what this not OdJ from Pickering is, it sounds as though they would like to hear from you. She also offered me a future credit. This is exactly why I will continue to order roses from Pickering, they are respectful to their customers and helpful :) Also because they roses I received from them this Spring look like blooming in the next couple weeks and are incredibly healthy! I am impressed with their customer service and quality!
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Another ID - Orphelline de Juillet?

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Another ID - Orphelline de Juillet?

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