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do ogrs require less sun than hts, ex

16 years ago

At first I thought it was 1 inch of water per week, but in this terrible drought and 90+ degree weather every bloody day, I have done much more. But next Spring will bring my new OGRs. Yay! Do they require less water than HTs and Floris or the same amount? I am starting with 1 Bourbon, 1 China and 1 Hybrid Perp.

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Comments (4)

jerijen
16 years ago
Do they require less water than HTs and Floris or the same amount? I am starting with 1 Bourbon, 1 China and 1 Hybrid Perp.

*** NO. They are roses -- and remember that they are in fact the ancestors of modern roses.
They have more or less the same requirements as any rose.
If planted with less sun, or given less water, they will probably grow with less vigor, or bloom less.
China Roses, once fully-established, deal with some drought by slipping into a form of dormancy.
This means that they may survive such conditions.
However they are not blooming or growing much during that emergency.
If you have areas with little or no sun, don't use them for roses.
Think of them as opportunities to enjoy azaleas, fuchsias, or ferns. :-)

Jeri
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lynnette
16 years ago
OGRs will tolerate a little less sun but you get more and better blooms in full sun. Gallicas and Albas will survive in partial shade but again they really do much better with more sun. Yes the OGRs can do with less water but you have to get them settle in before you can pull back on the watering. Give them the attention you would give an HT the first year and get those roots down then you can pull back on the water. However do keep in mind that roses really do well on water but I have found with the OGRs that a good watering once a week no matter what the weather is all they need when mature especially the Gallicas, Albas and Hybrid Musks. Bourbons need as much water as a HT if you want those big smelly flowers.
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Related Discussions
Which OGR do you wish hybridizers would use
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Comments (47)
Great question. I long for more Old Garden Tea roses, and their immediate hybrids. I've often wished I could cross the disease resistant pale yellow Tea roses 'Souvenir de Pierre Notting' or 'Etoille de Lyon' with a Pernetiana such as 'President Herbert Hoover' or 'Etoille de Feu' or 'Duquesa de Penardana.'I never can remember how to spell that name... theres a tilda there somewhere too. all of these roses are disease resistant plants in a local no-spray garden. I'd like to see a flame hued, fragrant ever-blooming Tea-Hybrid that is disease resistant with the rapid re-peat of the Tea class. Locally 'Lady Hillingdon' gets powdery mildew in each of the 4 seasons, but continues to bloom through all, but it is barely fertile. It has been such a popular rose for a hundred and two years, I think another Tea-Hybrid of similar but deeper hues would be a success. A white Tea-Hybrid rose that holds up well as a cut flower would be sublime. I'd like to see a cross between the Tea-Hybrid cl.'Mrs. Herbert Stevens' with the fragrant 'Westside Road Cream Tea' both of which are disease resistant, in my no-spray garden. Or W.R.C.T. X 'Snowbird' or 'White Christmas', which has a sweet fragrance. Alba Semi-Plena for disease resistance, and beautiful foliage, I imagine a white Tea-A.S.P cross through several generations to produce a remontant hybrid. 'Niphetos'X white 'Rose of York'=heaven. I sure do love Tea roses, and Albas. Luxrosa p.s. plan9, look to Groundcover roses from 1990 and onward, many were bred from R. wichurana, and hortico.com sells several of them. I suggest you look for "disease resistant' roses under Groundcovers and then look up their parentage on helpmefind.com I have Ralph Moores 'Simplex' a small remontant wich. hybrid that has apricot buds that open to show white wild- appearing rose blossoms.
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fragrant red roses, O.G.R.s and classic H.T.s.
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Comments (7)
I got Mirandy as a band from Burlington last month. It's completely yellow, very chlorotic. Burling told me to give it nitrogen, and she is right. Since it's a hybrid tea, I made the potting mix more alkaline by putting in some of my clay soil (alkalinity suppresses fungal growth). Mirandy didn't like it, so I changed the potting soil to neutral by using Organic MiracleGro (pH of 7). I gave her some blood meal NPK of 12-0-0. Normally this green up things fast in my garden, but not Mirandy. Then I gave it sulfur, Mirandy didn't like it either. I have a pale but productive Christopher Marlowe that greened up quickly with Schultz soluble fertilizer for acid plants NPK of 32-10-10, with all trace elements and triple the amount of iron. I gave Mirandy this, and she sprouted new dark green leaves immediately. I remember reading about how weak of a grower Mirandy in the Encyclopedia of Roses, but her bloom is large and very raspberry fragrant. My hunch is that weak grower needs a good dose of nitrogen and trace elements. My other hunch is that roses that tolerate alkaline soil, such as Golden Celebration, Paul Neyron, and mini-roses (descendants of China roses) REALLY HAVE a fungal issue on acidic soil. My neighbor planted her mini-rose right into our alkaline soil, pH of 7.7, and it blooms really well with zero fungal diseases. But when I put the mini-roses into green bag MiracleGro potting soil (pH of 6.5), they lost all their leaves to blackspots. Mirandy doesn't tolerate alkaline soil, so she's disease-free in a neutral pH. Even when I gave her sulfur, she didn't break out in blackspots like Paul Neyron. She definitely responded to a fast acting, soluble NPK of 32-10-10.
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new to OGRs, need basics
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Comments (39)
> > > I think disease resistance - for any class - is best considered on a rose by rose basis. *** WOW is that ever true! Over 20 years, we've grown almost every sort of rose, and we know that: MOST HTs don't really thrive here. MOST Teas, Noisettes, Chinas, and Polyanthas DO thrive here. MOST Austin roses don't really thrive here. (In fact most of them seem not to respond well to a cool coastal climate.) MOST Northern European once-bloomers need chill hours we do not have, and do not thrive here long-term. MOST Hybrid Perpetuals and Bourbons are "iffy" for us. But a few HTs are fine here, and a few Teas, Chinas, Noisettes, and Polyanthas are not. A handful of HPs are reasonably good here. A handful of Austins are reasonably good here. Look first at classes of roses, seeking groups that, on the whole, thrive in your climate. Then look within those classes to choose the best of them for your microclimate. Remember that even people in a similar plant-hardiness zone may have very different conditions from yours. Local advice is ALWAYS most accurate. If I'd had LOCAL advice when I began, I might have spent a lot less money on the wrong roses for my garden. Jeri Jennings
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OGRs versus English types
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Comments (29)
OGRs are CLASSES of roses which existed prior to 1867 -- the year 'La France' was introduced, and later named "the first Hybrid Tea". All CLASSES introduced thereafter were considered "Modern Roses" (including Hybrid Musks and Polyanthas, though today they are considered "antiques" if not truly OGRs...I mean, an antique is something 100 or more years old, so most make it on that rule). But remember that the cut-off had to do with CLASSES and not individual roses. So a Bourbon (one of the OGR classes) which came out in 1910 would still be an OGR. But a Hybrid Tea introduced in 1896 would be a Modern. I guess it made more sense 50-100 years ago, when Hybrid Teas were seen as the beginning of "something new" in roses, later followed by Floribundas (HT X Polyanthas), Hybrid Musks (a return to the "charming garden roses of old"), the various "shrub" roses (ironic since so many of the OGRs were already "shrubs"), et al. For me, the exact designation doesn't matter much. I like the idea of roses that blend well with other plants. HTs, Floribundas, some of the modern shrubs, etc. are often too "spotlight" for what I want right now -- they are better as bedding plants. I like the softer colors, the "wilder" arching growth, and having a few once-blooming roses that give more flowers in a month than most modern repeat-blooming roses give all season. They all have their place, but I'll keep the HT divas where they can better show-off with less competition -- as pot-pets with annuals, sort of like giant bouquets in planters. :-) ~Christopher Edit To Add -- Jeri beat me to it...I take too long going over my posts before I hit SUBMIT. ;-) This post was edited by AquaEyes on Wed, Sep 25, 13 at 21:00
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lori_elf z6b MD
16 years ago
You can't lump all OGRs together. Albas, some gallicas, and some damasks and damask perpetuals tolerate less than full sun. Some bourbons will also tolerate part shade, and there are some deep red hps that will burn with too much afternoon sun. Also, I've found that large and established old roses can do well with little or no supplemental watering if you don't mind them going dormant in the summer dry season and stop blooming.
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york_rose
16 years ago
Like lori elf said, you can't lump OGR's together that way. The ones most famous for tolerating shade are the Hybrid Musks, but others will do it to some degree, too. On the other hand, almost all roses perform better in full sun than they do in shade.
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