I knew from the start, I wanted to breed new roses of my own. How can you know what is possible without studying what has been? How could you know if something is "new" without knowing what had already been? I determined I wanted to grow things suitable to where my garden was without having to use chemicals. I was blessed to be able to find things which agreed with the choice. Not everyone elsewhere is able to.

I found types which succeeded with my culture style, space and energy levels that pleased my eye. I had to grow things no one else grew so their gardens would be interesting to me and mine would always interest me. If we all grow the same dozen roses, why visit other gardens?

Each remaining variety has spoken to me and earned its place. They're all different, yet they all share the same common thread of cooperating with me and enduring my garden. Kim

I began purchasing OGR's for the beauty and the fragrance that is simply void in so many modern Hybrid Teas etc.

It was only after I began my quest for roses to fill the new spaces being created in my garden, that I was exposed to so many interesting facts and the history associated with many of these roses. Besides being a rose lover, I am a history buff . OGR's are a win/win/win for me.

It is uncertain how my new roses will perform during my hot summers, but I am horrible at growing roses in pots. I am optimistic because the mere fact that my roses survived the temperatures during July, our hottest month, and my lack of a green thumb for growing roses in pots makes me optimistic.

It was only in the 90's yesterday, and then it rained during the early evening. My potted bands received their first 6 hours dose of sun yesterday:) When the temperatures are amenable, 90's and below, roses tend to grow like weeds here. Sorry for getting off track but I am so excited!

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Mon, Aug 26, 13 at 6:19

When I was a child, my mother always had vases of flowers in the living room, dining room and kitchen--and still does, for that matter. They may have been only a handful of geraniums mixed with some ferns if that was all there was in bloom, but there were always flowers in the house.

As an adult, I followed suit as soon as I had a house with a yard. As to roses, I wasn't interested in growing blackspot-ridden sticks which was all I had seen in Florida, plus I knew about nematodes. I did have, however, Pink Pet, which I had rooted from several stems in a bouquet a coworker brought me. She had moved that rose to Florida out of her grandmother's garden in Texas after her grandmother's death. I also had Gourmet Popcorn from my mother's garden, and my daughter gifted me with Elina on Fortunia. Those roses are carefree here.

I stumbled on this forum by accident in 2001 and suddenly learned there were whole classes of roses with leaves that didn't blackspot, and they had lovely blooms. I had lived in Florida most of my life and never seen a single rose garden with antiques, not even Louis Phillipe. And the rest, as the saying goes, is history.

Aesthetics and practicality.

The harsh (and sometimes just weird) flower colors, angular or shapeless flower forms, and gawky plants of modern roses can be painful to see, next to the shapely flowers of subtle, pleasant hues and the full, leafy bushes of old roses. A study of these contrasts can be made by visiting the Old Cemetery in Sacramento or the SJHRG, then visiting the modern rose plantings in Sacramento's McKinley Park or the San Jose Municipal Rose Garden. Night and day.

Teas, noisettes, and tea-noisettes here are far more floriferous than any hybrid tea or modern shrub on the lot. The "second flush" of 'Etoile de Lyon' this year has been going since mid-June, producing way more than a hundred flowers so far and with many buds yet to open, every flower large and full. Few roses can be so completely covered with flowers as 'Jaune Desprez' or 'Mme. Alfred Carriere' or 'Buff Beauty' during their first flushes. Some modern roses are scented; nearly every OGR is (Chinas excepted!).

On the practical side, old roses that are suitable for this climate need little or no help from me to grow well; they are tough and thrifty once established. No need to constantly dead-head or feed or do anything special, really. Irrigate, clean out old wood every few years and strive to keep them contained to a reasonable amount of space -- that's it.

This post was edited by catspa on Mon, Aug 26, 13 at 10:11

A few years back, when I was starting a garden where I lived on Long Island, I learned about David Austin's roses. I bought a few for the yard because I wanted fragrant flowers, and I liked the shape of the flowers I saw in pictures. I bought a book about English Roses and there learned about the oldies which David Austin was trying to emulate in repeat-blooming modern roses.

Then I moved to Buffalo, leaving behind the garden I started. Knowing I wouldn't be there long, I didn't start another garden there, but I continued researching the OGRs and was anxious to "meet" them soon. An opportunity came when I was asked to help with a community garden project at the end of my street, and I picked out some Gallicas and Albas to go along with the perennials there. Seeing how easy it was to order bands and grow them on in pots, I thought perhaps I could pick a few to keep that way and bring with me when I left Buffalo. That didn't work out, so I started over when I got here in NJ.

Why do I like them? Whenever I was thinking of using roses in a garden, my mind went to pictures showing big sprawling shrubs, climbers, etc. -- not the typical shape associated with HTs and Floribundas. I saw what I wanted in my mind, but couldn't find it at local nurseries. I also read all the romantic descriptions of fragrance and beauty associated with the OGRs, and wanted to try them out. This will be my first garden using them and getting to see them over a few years.

I've always felt that back yard gardens are best with cool colors and a cottage-y look, while hot colors and dramatic "tropical" looks belong in the front. Being as I have little front yard but a sorta decent back yard, the OGRs became the backbone of my garden "plan". And I think they play better with companion perennials I like than typical bedding-roses.

:-)

~Christopher

They don't die.

It's about that simple.

As a long time rose garden hater, I only put a few in to please mom. I like a lot of native plants. But native plants often have a season they look wonderful and the months they look grey or nearly dead.

At the top of the reasons I was a rose hater was the high center no fragrance issue. But since mom wanted roses and the cheap one I bought here looked so bad I went to a rose class. And discovered that Austins had fragrance and the old fashioned look I do like.

I also started posting and not just reading the rose forum here and quickly learned from many, Jeri Kim and others, about the OGR. Something you can not buy at the nursery and the nursery does not mention.

Mom, at 90, is enjoying the Austins in the backyard because I could buy big plants and get that instant gratification.

The lower part of the garden and the biggest part was my dads pride and joy. He loved his orchards and teaching about gardening. Mom and I are converting that part to a better balance for use, dad had big fruit crops that we just can not use or give away fast enough. But the lower garden is still designed in that teaching/learning about gardens. Since the house dates to the 1890's so will most of the roses. And they have to be non spray since they will be living with food crops. Our goal is to promote growing healthy foods in yards that still look like yards or have visual appeal.

Love these posts! Keep 'em rolling folks!

Kippy, do you have pictures of the gardens? It sounds like an Eden to me. Growing up in Texas and raised in a farming family, your post hit me right in the nostalgia. I remember going out to my grandparents' property and walking through the gardens with my grandmother as she talked to us about her vegetable gardens, native plants, and fruits trees. Those are some great memories.

Josh

Like a postcard from another part of the world, like meeting a new friend, like learning another language with its own characteristic "logic" and assumptions, Old Roses enrich me and take me out of myself to a place of different understandings. To appreciate the aesthetic of another era is truly to meet with those who came before, to gain in a very personal way an insight into their sensibilities and feelings, and really to live for a moment alongside them in their world. The payoff of such stretching is not only the "new" experience in itself; it's also that, by providing us with a different vantage point, it gives us a new perspective on our own contemporary doings and existence.

Also, they're pretty.

I was not too crazy about roses until I started seeing pictures of OGR's on the web, several years ago. I was entranced by the delicate and graceful beauty of the teas, bourbons and chinas. I found some vendors online and ordered a couple. I think my first were Mme Joseph Schwartz and Maman Cochet. They didn't do anything for a few years, but suddenly they grew up and started blooming. I thought (and still think) they were incredibly beautiful. The bush forms were nice too; I was so used to the clunky hybrid tea bushes which I didn't care for.

So, I got bitten by the rose bug and have been enamored every since. However, recently I've run out of room and by water bill has gotten out of hand, so I am trying not to buy anymore.

Also, my roses look terrible now from our unrelenting heat and dryness (very very little rain this summer and we usually get a good bit). So, I am kind of a discouraged rose owner currently. I am hoping things will get getting once it finally cools off (still a ways away).

Of course I envy the CA growers who have blooms throughout the summer.

I saw a review in Southern Living magazine on "Roses for the Southern Garden" by Michael Shoup in 2000, while on a weekend visit to BIL's farm in Corsicana (oh yeah, you haven't lived until you go to Corsicana, TX!) After numerous failures in attempting to grow roses directly into my rock hard clay soil, this book opened up a whole new world for me, and off we went and haven't stopped!

I wanted to grow the roses my grandmother had grown. Full bushes and blooms with wonderful fragrances.
kay

I collect antiques. I love fragrant flowers. It seemed a no-brainer to attend a meeting of the Heritage Roses Group and meet Miriam Wilkins back in the early days when the group was getting started. Then I went to my first Celebration of Old Roses in El Cerrito, CA...Miriam's labor of love. Needless to say, I've been hooked ever since.

Diane

I have been in love with the past since I was a small child. Mind you, I don't want to live in it, clearly a dangerous and uncomfortable place. But I have wanted to surround myself with the best and most beautiful parts of it as long as I have been alive. Given this, heritage roses are a natural for my garden. I planted my first OGR back when I was in my late teens.

Rosefolly

I dunno honestly - I guess they are a follow-on from growing fruit. I don't really grow OGRs so its a bit of a weird query for me to consider....but I do grow flowers I like and I like the look of large flowering shrubs which have a longer bloom time than the ephemeral fruit blossom I am familiar with. If there was a forum for wild roses, I would desert this one, probably, but because I can waffle on and be tolerated, I am sticking around here.
Didn't know there were so many history buffs here. Despite doing history for my degree and masters (I got 2 years into a doctorate and gave up to study horticulture), I never really cared much about flower (cultural, intellectual history) - it was always social history for me (couldn't give a hoot about kings and queens type of stuff either) but as an unreformed socialist (commie, raving pinko, loonie leftie even), not so surprising.
There was a post on the perennial forum asking when people started gardening and I was stunned to hear practically everyone had gardening parents or grandparents and had been doing it since infancy - I thought I was the stereotype of the middle aged gardener since my entire youth was basically a selfish hedonistic binge with a bit of childcare thrown in - certainly no time or interest in gardening (although I made up for it when the garden syndrome struck me down unexpectedly, like a bad case of measles).
In truth, I am not an antique rose grower....but I actively despise hybrid teas and blowsy floribundas so where else can I hang out?

Josh, photos will come soon, but I am working on a few last things and decided to wait til they are done and the garden has the look I envision.

Updated this evening with a cell phone shot.

Today I added the tops to the posts (not the fresh wood) but I think this is one of my most favorite spots in the garden.

What you can't really see and compressed view by camera:

On the right, big green blob is a grapefruit, then after the gate, Seedless Kishu Mandarine, Goodwin Gray Lavenders (4x spread about) Archduke Charles, Santa Barbara Peach, Lady Ann Kidwell and Gold Nugget Mandarine

From the left, Ole and Lasting Love in an old horse water trough, Red Angel Pom, Nipon Mandiquat (I think) Australian Finger Lime, a pair of solanums I am making in to small trees and then the chicken run.

I love that rusty windmill, our wood chips, the bench etc.

When my parents bought the place nothing grew in this zone, the old owner had poisoned all the extra orange trees with DDT.

This post was edited by Kippy-the-Hippy on Tue, Aug 27, 13 at 23:14

Kippy,
Do you like the Mandarin 'Kishu'?

Cath

Sorry, Kippy, that was a stupid question. Why did you plant the 'Kishu'. I have read that some people love it and that others think that it is too sweet. What is your take on it? I apologize for this being off topic but curiosity has gotten the better of me.

Cath

Cath

To be honest, we have not gotten anything from it yet-well one baby last season.

I had asked a couple of SoCal citrus forum people what they would recommend for year round fruit. Seedless Kishu was tops on their lists. It is ripe in an off time. Some citrus needs a ton of heat to get really sweet, so here on the coast it just does not get the kind of heat to turn things like grapefruit truly sweet. The biggest downside they had for it was that the fruit is very small.

I still want a Tango, but we also have one old tree that is big-not sure what it is. We also have Gold Nugget Clementine, and Page

I also have 2 kinds of limes, 5 kinds of lemons, oranges and blood oranges, grapes, passion fruit, peaches, plums, apples, pears, apricots, persimmons, strawberries, blueberries, gooseberries (no fruit so far)currant, rhubarb and a veggie garden

O stop it - Kips - my envy knows no bounds since all I have here is a feeble little Meyer lemon - would literally kill for a good citrus collection.

Otoh - I do have great blackcurrants, plums and damsons, apples, strawbs, raspberries, redcurrants, gooseberries and (best of all) cherries. Peaches and nectarines are iffy because of the curl.

Camps, with all that new space, bet you find more varieties to grow and enjoy.

I have a pair of cherries trees I want. But I really need to work on a layout of the garden first. Even on semi dwarfing root stock they can grow rather large so I really want to be careful on placement.

I hope my gooseberries produce something next season and that I do not set the one back when I move it. I planted it before we added the winter garden and since it turns out in the winter that garden gets too much shade for veggies I am going to move the currant and other good berry once they go dormant.

Hate to deflate hope, Kippy, but gooseberries may need more chill-hours than you can give them (800-1000 needed -- cherries need a fair number, too). I tried gooseberries here (cuttings from the ones at my grandmother's ranch in Mendocino County, where they did fine) and they didn't produce anything. Does anyone around you have them?

Here is a link that might be useful: A chill-hour list

Catspa, I know they are my zone bender so I do not have high hopes. But I can try-they actually sell them at the nursery on the other side of the hill from me were they can get more winter chill. My Red Lake Currant also needs more cold that we get, but it did set fruit this year so who knows.

Check out Minnie Royal and Royal Lee (200-300 hours) cherry trees. They are both low chill and said to set fruit at the coast in San Deigo. You need both for pollenizers to each other. On the other hand, my neighbors planted a Lapins Cherry (400 hours) and it set tons of fruit and is self fruitful

My mom in Santa Rosa does well with her cherries, too (don't remember what kind). I only have the native golden current which sets a ton of fruit every year, most of which the mockingbird very happily appropriates (keeps him from picking too much at the figs, so I'm happy, too).

Easier to grow! They're hardier, don't have to constantly prune, no spraying, look beautiful, often wonderful fragrance...and the history of many old-fashioned roses is fascinating :)

My friend Robert used to read to me from the old RoY&T catalog on lunch breaks at the nursery. I loved all the covers of that catalog. We would go through it over and over and decide what we were going to get. One trip to Robert's garden got me started on a hybrid musk collection. Felecia was my favorite. I started buying Bourbons next and now am on Polyanthas. I have a few from each of those classes still with me and added some others. It's been fun over the years trying them out because nothing is better than living with them everyday to see what they are like.

Over the past 10 years, the new additions have been DAs mostly, but as water gets more expensive, many of these may be replaced by OGRs. It's hard to find a rose that's better than an OGR that likes you.

How could I not grow them, once I knew they existed and could be mine? They didn't always live up to my dreams, but the dream was so potent that I never gave up trying. They were exotic and mysterious and different, and that along with their beauty stole my heart. Their allure is as strong now as the day I first laid eyes on one, and I will grow them until the day I no longer have the water to keep them alive.

Ingrid

Not on purpose, at least in the beginning. My DH and I inherited a garden full of old roses 24 years ago when we moved into the family house his great grandfather had purchased new in 1905. Three generations of gardeners, then 25 years of being a rental and getting only minimal care, had left the garden with many surviving roses which luckily LOVE our climate, and most of them were OGRs.

I grew up in a Victorian house in a nearby town, and always loved & collected antiques, so I was thrilled to move into this one (which we purchased from family members quite promptly). My antiques fit right in.

Then I slowly noticed the roses, roses, everywhere. I have been hooked ever since - adding new old ones. The only modern ones we have are some HTs from the 1940s thru the 1960s which were here, and which I regard as "family heirlooms". They live in large pots next to the patio where I can keep an eye on them, and discourage some of their bad habits. Oh, we did also put in some modern ground cover roses way out by the street 20 years ago - they are still going strong too.

We are blessed, of course, with a climate roses love, and that makes everything much easier. Here are some oldies we inherited: Le Vesuve, Duchesse de Brabant, and Cecile Brunner (don't ask me which kind).

Jackie