so why don't you post a few pictures Kate lets see your style let us see what you got

I just like any rose that is winter cane hardy, blooms decent, and has great Blackspot resistance because we do not spray.
My wife has MS and is starting to lose sight in her right eye so her MS is starting to progress.
So only the best roses will stay here so she can enjoy them while she still has some eye-sight left....
I do not know what the future brings so I'm leaning more toward the more trouble free roses for now...

I have had some so called VERY BS disease resistant non-hybrid tea roses fail here too...

But yet our Mister Lincoln plugs on without getting much BS at all... So go figure...lol

And if a person is willing to spray you can grow whatever roses you want...

Hrose--I'd be happy to show off my gardens.

Here is one of the two places where I grow my hybrid teas--along the Perfumed Path. (A couple of the roses are not in bloom there yet.)
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Here is the other place I mainly grow hybrid teas (to hide my neighbor's ugly garage), but there are two hyrbrid perpetuals in there also (Mrs. John Laing--lighter pink).
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Two hybrid teas--Oklahoma (red) and Valencia (buff/gold/apricot)--recently transplanted.
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Two Kordes floribundas--Eutin (red) and Pomponell (pink)
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Modern shrub--Clement's Braveheart (red); in background right side, Austin shrub Molineux (yellow/apricot/gold).
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Hybrid musk Buff Beauty in foreground; grandiflora Earth Song (pink) in background.
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Here's a couple Austins--my favorite shrub Munstead Wood (dark burgundy purple) and Queen of Sweden (light pink)
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One of my seven Sweet Dianas (mini)
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Bourbon rose Mystic Beauty
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Mother's Day (polyantha)
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Wish I could show you a picture of my Boule de Neige (bourbon/noisette) but at the last moment, Horton notified me that they could not send it. That's my last open space in my yard, so I'm reserving it for next year in hopes that I can get a Boule de Neige then.

I hope you enjoyed the quick tour of parts of my gardens. I think they are probably typical of many gardens in that a variety of different types of roses are grown. And if I had more space and energy, I'd probably go on adding more types to my gardens.

I'd love to see pics of your rose gardens also, Hrose.

Kate

This post was edited by dublinbay on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 1:21

Enchanting!

I have a question, but so as to not hijack this thread I'm going to ask it in a new thread.

"Enchanting!" lol made me laugh

Kate most my roses this year are new as I shovel pruned almost all my HTs and planted shrubs

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henry kelsey climbing rose very hardy
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so what do you think Kate?

This post was edited by Hrose on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 11:22

"so why don't you post a few pictures Kate lets see your style let us see what you got."
Oh my, Mistah hrose, ya'll do have a way with words. Ah'm all a-blush just readin' your suggestive request. Well, now that Miz Kate gone and displayed her glorious wares, 'spect ya'll be return in' the favor?
Lookin' forward,
Miz marti
P.s. That pic is how come I gotta have me some HTs
Lord! I do feel rich when I bring these inside.

Hrose, I love your "new" gardens. It will be so exciting to see them grow and fill out. I predict a gorgeous future garden.

And I love your deck and the whimsy of a giant sunflower towering over your new roses.

I think we both just proved our points. Some people prefer one type of rose garden, and others prefer other types of rose gardens--and they are all beautiful!

I just have to add, however, that about 5 years ago, I had very few HTs in my garden (2 Double Delights is all) because I had been so busy exploring other rose options for a number of years there. Then one day, I looked around and realized I MISSED THE HTs. That is why I created the Perfumed Path consisting of fragrant disease-resistant HTs. The second area where I grow HTs came about shortly thereafter when I realized the neighbor was never going to get around to fixing up his dilapidated garage. Since there is only limited space between the property line and my driveway, I had to plant "skinny" roses--hence the 2 hybrid perpetuals and the 7 vertical HTs in a long straight row (the only straight row in my entire yard; I take that back--have a short floribunda hedge out in front of the house).

I'm glad I added HTs back into my designs, but my Austins and hybrid musks are my first loves.

Kate

A quick observation from my own garden

Even though I am not spraying, no time or desire for that, I recognize that the first months worth of growing in my garden is really not representative for nursery bought plants that were treated by the grower and seller. They have to sell lots of happy healthy looking plants and in many cases also have gov ag programs to comply with. This means my no spray roses have probably had a lot of spray and systemics. The real test is how they look a year or two down the road.

For someone like HRose buying own root plants might be better in the long term. Yes it may require time and cold protection while they are babies. But then when the weather is bad and you have to cut them low you will get the same rose back.

Also HMF has the parent info when possible. It helps when you are buying a "shrub" rose that came from generations of HT

I agree with HRose, I am in zone 6a. HT doesn't do well for me here. I have close to 500 roses, half of them are landscaping roses for their beautiful colors, others are DAs, old garden roses, climbers & ramblers. I have a lot of knockouts, they give me a lot of free time for riding in the good weather. :-) I am a scooter rider, love my Vespas and Hondas. Gardening is not the only thing I do after work. Get a scooter/motorcycle everyone, get out of the garden,have some fun under the sun! :-) Any riders here??

I had lovely HTs when we lived in Connecticut. I sprayed fungicide biweekly for about two months in summer. That took about an hour every other week. Yes, the bushes were foliated from top to bottom. SIL in Jersey has very nice HTs. I enjoy teasing her about how large the Peter Mayle bush has become - he's taking over the garden but she doesn't have the heart to prune such an enthusiastic plant. Perhaps HTs need a higher level of culture than HRose was willing to provide to thrive in zone 6. Perhaps HRose chose HTs that aren't especially vigorous.

In Virginia I'm growing teas no-spray and enjoying the opportunity to try another class of rose. In local garden centers, the only roses available are Knock-out variants. I wonder where people are purchasing HTs. The only HTs that I've seen for sale in northern Virginia this year were body bags in Home Depot and Lowe's. If gardeners are purchasing low quality HTs, that may also explain poor results.

Great pics Kate!

I think I'm going to explore getting a few more HT's but will grow them in large containers next year.
Firefighters on my list so far...

Shrub type looking roses I'm thinking of adding Earth Song, Country Dancer to see how they do here...

Shoot. I guess Roses is not the proper place for silly humor.

Kate, your garden is lovely! Enchanting is certainly an appropriate description.

My garden is not old enough for me to have a valid opinion on this subject, I have an assorted mix if roses, about a dozen in ground and the same in containers, I have had a few BS problems with 2 of my HTs, but I have also had similar blackspot problems with another shrub rose nearby, yet my Chrysler Imperial (ht) and About Face (gf) are right up next to the heaviest BS area and are both still spotless, as well as the Lady of Shalott on the other side of the mess, so my results are mixed. I do not spray and if these 2 HTs don't shape up I may eventually replace them, but I am not immediately going to say they aren't worth my time, I will try experimenting with various organic fertilizers and see if anything helps. The experimenting and learning part of gardening is fun for me, so if things don't work out it's ok because that opens up a new space in my fairly small garden for something else. Trying new varieties keeps it interesting.

The thing that makes having my own garden so great is that I can choose to put whatever I want in it, I choose colors, scents and shapes that appeal to me. I personally take the time to research most things before buying them and if necessary I accept the possibility at that time that I may have to do this or that to keep them healthy. Every now and then I throw caution to the wind & buy something purely on impulse and just hope that I don't have any problems with it... I know, it's crazy! The gaul! But whatever ends up happening I am the only person who I have to answer to for my garden, it is purely a display of my own taste, I chose the plants, I chose where they were planted, I pruned them, watered them and fed them, my garden is one thing that is purely mine, imperfections and all & I find that to be friggin awesome.

Jessica

just for the record I'm not hating on HTs their very nice just not for landscaping in my neck of the woods because of die back during winter

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My HTs when I first planted them grew like crazy 5 ft high even

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Great pics everyone!

the girl of my dreams

lol naw she's resistant to BS

This post was edited by Hrose on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 9:58

Well, if I can type with thumb in mouth,...yes, still sulking no one lol'd my posted humor attempt.....I must say how i love the gorgeous pics. Kate, yours always blow me away, and oh, those Mordens! I want one! Jim1961, an lol for you. :). Hrose, I love shrubs, too. Floribundas are shrubs, right?
Here are my two favs: yellow Eureka and Hot Cocoa.

You can get a wimpy and disease prone 'shrub' rose as easily as you can get a hardy and disease resistant 'HT' one. People in this discussion are talking about HTs vs shrubs as if they are completely different plant species when really they are all in agreement that healthy and hardy roses are usually a better deal than sickly ones. In fact the main difference that is valid between the shrub and HT 'classes' is their difference in growth pattern. Genetics are all mixed up anyhow. That's my 2 (euro)cents worth.
Nik

good content

Here is a link that might be useful: Eid Mubarak Wishes 2014

Eid Mubarak to you too abhitom

nice looking garden martinca looks good shrub roses are always more eye catchy to me because of the number of blooms

"Well, if I can type with thumb in mouth,...yes, still sulking no one lol'd my posted humor attempt....."

no worries I got a feeling most people here are square and lame

This post was edited by Hrose on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 13:20

Since I didn't mention it above, I thought I'd just add that I don't spray very often in my gardens with the HTs and modern shrubs and older roses--maybe 2-3 times in the spring and once or twice in the autumn. I also don't spray all my roses every time--except for the HTs. and HPs. Some of the other roses never get sprayed or only sometimes get sprayed. Since I only buy disease-resistant roses nowadays, my roses aren't as needy in that respect--not even my HTs. And mid-summer is usually so hot here that even BS goes dormant for awhile.

Kate

Hmmm interesting Kate I remember when I sprayed a few times when I was a newbie didn't have much of an affect the rains would wash it all off

this forum needs a reply to a post button like most other forums the owners of this website are a little behind they didn't even have an edit button not long ago

This post was edited by Hrose on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 13:17

sunflower fully opened
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reaching for the sky

Love that opened sunflower!

Nowadays, a lot of us use Bayer Garden Disease Control for Roses, Flowers, and Shrubs. It doesn't wash off in the rain. It kills any current BS and is systemic, thus acting also as a preventative. A lot of gardeners have found that they do not need to spray quite so often with this product.

And of course picking roses (including HTs) that are very disease-resistant also helps.

Kate

" "no worries I got a feeling most people here are square and lame" This post was edited by Hrose on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 13:20"

I have found most people on this forum to be most helpful and want the best for other people gardening and spend time helping, even if we do not like the answer or have different tastes.

SPAM ALERT

SPAM ALERT
Posted by abhitom none (My Page) on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 6:15
good content
Here is a link that might be useful: Eid Mubarak Wishes 2014

This post was edited by patricia43 on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 19:06

Katy we don't have Bayer for sale here in Canada instead we have a bunch of other stuff that doesn't work

I know Bayer Garden Disease Control for Roses, Flowers, and Shrubs is not sold in NY, but can people use it in NY? Got really bad black spots on Morden Sunrise rose trees and some other roses. The weather has been too hot for sulfur spray.

I have to agree with the spirit of what Hrose has been trying to convey in this thread.

I greatly value the opportunity to see and enjoy all types of roses, but when I purchased my first rose plant as an ignorant newbie, I had never even heard of blackspot, nor did I realize that many roses were difficult to grow in my zone and required spraying. I carefully read all of the information on the tag and assumed if I planted the rose correctly and watered properly I would soon have as nice a plant as the ones I had grown up observing.

What an unpleasant surprise it was to gradually witness the sickly, inappropriate plant I had bought. Determined to find plants as healthy as the ones I had grown up with, I read as much as I could and haunted garden shops, observing the different kinds.

Imagine my indignation when I finally realized that the majority of roses being sold were made popular by a rather exclusive group of rosarians who would stop at nothing to keep their roses healthy, including poisoning every other creature around, and that this behavior was necessary to keep the majority of roses in commerce healthy in many gardening zones, including my own.
The very people who loved roses the most were making the breeding of unhealthy roses profitable!

All this happened years ago, when I was a young housewife raising two small children, and when the walnut trees I had planted in my back yard were still small, so I had plenty of sun and the right conditions--for the RIGHT roses. When I think of the years and years of disappointments with roses when I could have had vast enjoyment from them if the rose industry had not been promoting so many of the sickly, frustrating, disease-infested ones that have given roses a bad name to so many by this point I feel infuriated. That all happened before the time when most of us had internet access, and most books on roses still extolled the virtues of the hybrid teas to the exclusion of most of the other types. Even a rugosa was a rare acquisition back then.

I realize many if not most of the posters in this Forum take spraying as a matter of course, but a parent with young children or a sickly elderly parent, etc etc does not. It is not a healthy practice for you or the environment, and IMO you need to examine why you are willing to support an industry in such a manner that it is necessary. It is your purchases that shape the direction in which the rose industry will go. If you, who purchase the most roses, are going to acquire ones that MUST be sprayed, of course the industry will be happy to provide them, and then sell more and more others when those die. Meanwhile, people who are not rosarians but just love roses and want to plant a healthy one are going to have to look long and hard for a healthy one.

Even if you insisted on better labeling by the industry it would be helpful. That has gradually improved, but it still is nowhere close to what it should be.

A person can go out and purchase almost any other kind of shrub and gain some gratification from the process, but that is still not as true of roses as it should be. I did finally try a few of the "Hasslefree" roses and some reliable old standards I was at last able to locate, but my children essentially grew up with no idea of what a really good shrub a healthy rose could be.

Luckily I was able to afford the search and also able to replace the miserable sickly rose cheats I tried with other, healthier, plants, but what of those who still love roses but are working at minimum wage and save up to purchase a good plant for a Mother's Day gift or other family event only to in the end be bitterly disappointed?

I expect many of you to say "Caveat emptor", but maybe you will do better thjan that and take the essence of what Hrose has said to heart. The rose industry would be much the better for it.

Yes, I would hate to not see the old roses that really are not suited to our non-English climate disappear from American commerce, but I would like to see more insistence that the new roses being bred, be bred with healthiness as a major goal, marketed in the appropriate zones, and be clearly labeled as to their true needs so that the average person can judge whether a particular rose will meet his or her expectations.

"I greatly value the opportunity to see and enjoy all types of roses, but when I purchased my first rose plant as an ignorant newbie, I had never even heard of blackspot, nor did I realize that many roses were difficult to grow in my zone and required spraying. I carefully read all of the information on the tag and assumed if I planted the rose correctly and watered properly I would soon have as nice a plant as the ones I had grown up observing."

this reminds me of myself when I first started

eibren thank you very much for sharing your experience and bringing our attention to this poison fungicide it is another reason why everyone should plant carefree roses

unfortunately most here will stop at nothing to have picture perfect blooms for Gardenweb and pat each other on the back even if it means spraying with bayer fungicide they don't sell Bayer in Canada because its POSION to bugs

This post was edited by Hrose on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 10:16

You definitely and greatly over-estimate how much spraying many of us do. Many of us spray on a very minimal and limited and occasional basis. In fact, I don't personally know any of the obsessive types you are describing in such hyperbolic terms.

Kate

Promulgating a myth. Someone wanting more money for taxes, probably. Kate, ignore it as many of us have had to do. It's all part of a blame game.

I don't think you know any of these people personally Katy neither do I and dont know how you think you can speak for anyone except for your yourself

anyway I do not want to argue with anyone everyone's got their own opinions all the info is here newbies can research in the future and make decisions for themselves

Patiricia43 What are you talking about?...are you a spammer? your of no help to anyone get out of my thread

This post was edited by Hrose on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 14:16

Sorry, HRose, I do not believe you are lacking in tact but that you have an agenda. You have no knowledge of posters' gardening practices.

As someone who has been posting here for 15 years, I do believe I know a bit more about these gardeners' habits and unlike you, I have grown roses of all kinds for decades.

You are here to stir the pot.

Saw this today at my neighbors house 1 block from us...
Even though she has a structure over her HT's that has a roof, roses very close to house, and weeds everywhere these HT's roses were blooming and no blackspot on any of the leaves... She does not spray either...

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how many blooms on those HTs? 5? 10? one or two stem on each plant ha...and just because they don't have blackspot does not mean they will not get anyway

here is a shrub rose in my area when it was in bloom had at least 50 blooms uncared for left on its own

This post was edited by Hrose on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 18:17

I give those HT's credit for not having BS right now and blooming without any care...

Most people around here do not fertilize, water, or dead head roses either so not as many blooms as their could be for sure...

Yes that is a nice full shrub rose bush. What its name?
Of course it would look even better if it had more than one bloom at the present time...lol
I know its resting...

This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 18:31

Hrose, a number of us have tried to be patient with you and not rudely put you in your place the way you rudely attack others. However, I'm in my 70s and don't need to put up with an arrogant child posturing and carrying on with no regard for anyone else. This is my last post to you--with one final observation. Everyone agrees with you that there are some wonderful and easy-care shrubs out there--so who are you fighting with and why?

Good-bye.

Kate

My apologies to all who feel I have been rude especially Kate she's been a big help and inspiration to everyone

Sorry everyone enjoy your gardening and roses HT, Shrub or both

This post was edited by Hrose on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 19:54

Yes you have been a pain in the a** at times to certain people but I'm glad to see you have apologized.

Now for your punishment I'm going to send you a HT and make you grow it! lol

Eibren. Your walnut tree, Is it Black walnut tree that is known to inhibit growth of nearby plants? We don't have them here in upstate NY. Do they stop roses?

This post was edited by sam4949 on Tue, Jul 29, 14 at 1:18

I think the whole problem here is that we are trying to compare apples to oranges. HT's and Shrub roses are two different classes for a reason. If you are expecting HTs to grow and bloom in the same manner as Shrub roses then you surely will be disappointed. Same is true the other way around. If you are expecting Shrub roses to give you the large beautifully formed blooms of an HT you'll be disappointed too. You can not compare them to each other. That's unfair to both classes. In my experience if you try to even compare one HT against another you come up perplexed. EVERY variety of rose is DIFFERENT. They each have their own habits and no two are alike. You need to just enjoy and appreciate each one for it's own unique characteristics.

I like this thread. It's one of the best so far. It has heart and soul, you can feel people's love and passion about their shurb roses and HTs. It has carried out many wonderful rose photos, it's very educational for gardeners all ages. HRose, you might need to send Kate a bottle of Canadian wine, I am sure she will say hello again. :-)
Cheers

What's funny is that in the OP the rose looks like a HT to me and Hrose, the OP, claims it is Champlain, which bears little resemblance to the pictured rose other than color, I guess. Classic HT form with one blossom per stem and Champlain is almost always in clusters,

As for me, I'd grow more HTs if I had the right climate!

A fun read 8 years after the post was started, such drama among rose growers. @jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6, your comment about lady blackspot is still very funny, too!

I also wonder about the rose in the OP’s initial post, definitely a stiff classic HT, and very well grown, I would certainly not complain! The only rose I can think that could be is Typhoo Tea. There aren’t many deep orange red with white reverse. If it is Typhoo Tea, then even more impressive to get that many blooms out of it.

Kate was very patient. I would have called him out on his rude behavior early on.

Arrogance really bugs me