For the same reason we have the technology to be campus-less but still schlepping around the quadrangles.

Books are low-tech and affordable to the poor (they are free at libraries - whether we will continue to fund libraries is a separate topic).

And books do not require batteries being plugged in to read. Soon there will be a price on carbon in this country and we will have to make a decision whether our electronic fetish will continue.

Trees are a renewable resource, and with the increasing number of critter outbreaks killing them, there is plenty of pulp in the near future for paper.

Dan

Props to what Dan said.

On a bit of a sarcastic note:

the problem is neither myself nor you have invented a cheap proper solar powered I-Pad type machine.

My cell my Galaxy cell phone is CLOSE, just need to have this expensive possibly not worth it solar panel set up to recharge the fella. On a side note I have a pretty long commute to work so I can work my car's engine which is powered by non-renewable fossil fuel just a micro-little bit harder and charge my phone on the way to work. There I look at a large number of documents on my phone and the PCs.

Not going to trust my sister's 8 year old with carrying around a cell phone or lap top all day though. You outta see the shape his text books end up in!

Is this posted in the Trees Forum because paper is made of trees and the post was some attempt to comment on using this natural resource, or is there something I'm completely missing here????

Sincerely,
Kinda Confused

I was sorta confused about why it showed up here to, other than linking it to wasting trees to generate paper. I have returned to school many times since my youth, and some things never change and the price of books and that not using collegiate texts more than two years in a row is one of them. My field is technical, and as rapidly as changes, there is still little reason to flip texts annually. It has more to do with the professor's choices to accommodate their agendas. Deviations from a fairly recent text can be brought up to date easily by an addendum. N.B. the authors of university level texts are usually university professors, LOL.

By the way harvesting that renewable resources, recycling old texts, printing new texts and distributing them in the system is not exactly carbon neutral, either.

Christie, the OP, obviously mistakenly assumed that because this was a tree forum that the members in here prefer not to see paper wasted. Well I for one agree with Christie on that. Books can and should be downloaded if one chooses to do so.
And if one needs a hard copy of it, they should be able to go into the university book shop or copy centre an have an authorised copy printed out with a simple spiral binding or something.

But unfortunately another assumption where Christie is probably incorrect is that doing so will get the cost of books down. With all the people that have to make their 6 and 7 digit salaries involved with writing the book and bringing it to the shelves, it's not like its going to be $3.99 or anything. The books are still going to be super expensive. It may get the the prices down a little then again not having to wait in lines or track down the version that the professor changed their mind to at the last minute.

We'll get there some day. If we can download a 2 hour long movie in a matter of minutes, we should certainly be able to download textbooks.

We are certainly moving toward Dick Tracy watches and Star Trek iPad-type devices.

Today, the reason why we haven't transitioned way from books is the cost. The poor cannot simply bop on down to the BigBox and plop down 150.00 for a reader then bop over to OnLineRatherThanLocalBiniess.com and then purchase a book. Our experience in the US is not universal.

Dan

If it isn't printed out in hardcopy, it doesn't exist.

Josh

Main reason is copyright protection - authors of serious works are unwilling to make their texts available in electronic format, as it is so easy to reproduce this without paying copyright royalties. So serious information is to a large extent only available in hard copy, which is far easier to control.

There are exceptions of course, some people make their data freely available to all. Good for them, I say!

Resin

Lots of "serious works" already out in electronic format, even audio books. Bootleg copies are a valid concern but there's ways to protect them now.

"There are exceptions of course, some people make their data freely available to all. Good for them, I say!"

Some people rely on royalties from the sale of their books to pay their bills. The rich author is the exception and not the rule.

I do have some books in electronic format but I much prefer a real book in my hands.

I missed this before... Dan wrote: "Today, the reason why we haven't transitioned way from books is the cost. The poor cannot simply bop on down to the BigBox and plop down 150.00 for a reader..."

The thing is Dan, this post isn't about the poor. It's about those that are privileged enough to be buying textbooks. $150 is chump change when you're buying textbooks. $150 might buy 2 textbooks if you're lucky. So it would pay for itself pretty quick if the cost of the electronic books was reasonable and it would eliminate then need to use all that paper for a textbook with a relatively short life cycle. Compared to books that might end up in a library or can be passed on down the line for years and years, a textbook might only be used for one semester before they switch to a different one.

I bought college textbooks for 9 years. Used whenever possible. Used are much cheaper. And not available via e-books. I also have several texts purchased from used book stores that, presumably, students sold to the store. I also was able to check out texts from the library. I borrowed, on occasion, texts from other students that I didn't want to purchase.

Most, if not all, of these conditions/options are not available to an e-reader student population, who will be purchasing new every quarter and there is zero reason to think that profits will not be chased after vigorously in such a scenario.

Dan

Used books were rarely an option at any time when I was attending university. The life of an edition for use was usually one year and then they were toast. It wasn't because the information was out of date so much as each prof had their own choice as to what text he/she 'wanted' to use according to their philosophy or agenda.

What calliope just said.

I will also add though that used textbooks are also very expensive.

Because lugging around big, heavy books is the only exercise many of them are actually getting nowadays.--Unless you count the vigorous workout their fingers are getting from incessant texting.

Again, this post is about college textbooks.

Used books were rarely an option at any time when I was attending university. The life of an edition for use was usually one year and then they were toast.

My niece graduated undergrad two years ago and nephew is an undergrad now. Their mother and uncle drilled discipline into them that they need to search for used books every time as the money well isn't bottomless. They are successful quite often, and I'd estimate close to half of my texts were used once I got to Uni (albeit rare in 2-year college).

So perhaps it depends on the university system. And I agree with grandma that used books aren't cheap either. It's a racket, absolutely.

Dan

So you agree with the premise that the cost of textbooks needs to and can come down through electronic versions then?

I've been thinking about this.

If a new textbook costs $80 ($60 to publisher/author $20 to production and shipping)
and a used textbook costs $40 ($0 to publisher or author)
And lets say an electionic textbook costs $10 ($8.50 to publisher, $1.50 to electronic delivery service)

the publisher and author would make the same amount of money or maybe even more money after the sale of 7 digital versions. Students that would ordinarily buy a used textbook, would be buying digital versions instead so it doesn't necessarily take 6 additional semesters to make up the difference. It might happen in 1 or 2 semesters.

The used book students save $30, The author and publisher make their money and the school copy place gets in on some of the action. The content delivery service would also make some money. I'd hope that would end up at the university but I know that's now how things work here.

It's also a win-win for trees. Not so much for printers or paper companies.

Why would a digital equivalent of an 80 dollar printed book be only 10 dollars?

I doubt it would only cost $10 in reality. But if it did, it would only take 7 students who would otherwise buy used to make up the difference.
In theory by lowering the price and making it easier to get ahold of, more students will do that instead of buying used.

No books. That's crazy talk. Didn't Bradbury write something on that? One question. How long after "$0 to publisher or author" before there are no authors? Is it hot in here or is it me? Resin, that's 232.78C Ã

tj

Consider how many bookstores in your area have closed recently. I know we've lost a couple here. Technology pushing stock boys and truckers out of jobs. We don't make anything here anymore! Books are something you can feel with your hands and walk around with. Outside. With your trees.
OK.
Better nip this rant in the bud.
Barb

No, I don't see any correlation between absence of used books and two year colleges. I've attended three universities and one two year college and I've never been able to buy a used book current enough for a class.

I was enrolled in a post graduate course in plant physiology concerning light response (although I was a senior)and not only were there not any used books, they didn't even order enough new ones. I had to keep checking out the only one available in the school library until I couldn't check it out anymore. I should have just 'lost' it and paid the fine. Then I had to drop the stupid course for lack of a textbook. That's ridiculous. That's the kind of problems being able to download a text could prevent. I'd have paid a small fortune for one back then.

tsugajunkie,
It looks like you're reading very selectively, not picking up on any of my points.

I don't know what the actual numbers are. Let me be very clear about that. What I do know for certain is that used textbooks is $0 to author.

The author would make more money by selling electronic copies of their book because more people would buy it.
Heck, maybe people would be willing to pay even more than a paper book for it because of the convenience of not having to go to bookstores and wait in line then return the book because the professor changed his mind at the last minute.

treebarb,
I understand the problem of losing a lot of our manufacturing jobs to other countries. But saying that we should continue to waste paper to protect jobs is like saying we shouldn't use home solar systems because if everyone made their own energy, the people that work at the power plant would be out of a job.
Or its like saying we shouldn't try to keep people off drugs because if nobody was on drugs, the people that work in the rehab industry would be in the unemployment line.

There is a clear solution here. Provide hard copies for students that prefer that. Everyone else can use rights-managed digital copies and kindle type things.

Thanks for your replies everyone!
I won't respond to everyone but:
Yes I think it's a waste of paper and trees.
I was speaking primarily about textbooks which are sometimes only used once or twice.
It's not unusual for a college student to spend $1000 or more a year on textbooks now.
I don't know what public schools (elementary - high school) spend on textbooks but it surely must be significant enough to consider an alternative.

I think it's a good use of trees, personally....but I think it would be an *even better* use of industrial hemp.
Heck, many of our drafted and final Founding Documents are committed to hemp paper.

Gardening Grandma, you are aware that this is exactly what's going on?
"Or its like saying we shouldn't try to keep people off drugs because if nobody was on drugs,
the people that work in the rehab industry would be in the unemployment line."
- Drug enforcement makes more money/jobs than drug legalization/de-criminalization.
- Until the balance flips the other way, the demonization of cannabis (>canvas, same word)
will continue.

All in all, there are bigger fish to fry.

Josh

I had a feeling if I used that example someone would open up the 'legalize it' can of worms. There's other things I'd rather do with hemp than print books on it anyway.

By the way, if anyone needs another reason why big heavy textbooks are not eco-friendly, just wait outside a college textbook store and see how many single rider cars pull up. See how many delivery trucks come every day. Going with digital textbooks will reduce emissions and sadly yes that will also mean fewer jobs at the oil rig.

Hemp oils, fuels, and plastics are superior, anyway... ;)

NASA still uses Whale oil, so I'm sure we'd still be able to find a use for black crude
in a more specialized and limited application.

Josh