Thanks for all of the positive comments..You are all way to gracious as I'm really not a writer..I always have all of this stuff in my head but I hate to write or type so it never gets down on paper too often..I suppose one of these days I'll write some sort of memory type book before mine(Memory) has diminished to the point where it's all fuzzy..It's funny, this little thing we call life..How when your young you wish it would hurry up and as you start reaching into middle age, you wish nothing more that it would slow down..LOL..I feel in my heart where I differ from the "franchise" is that I would do it anyway whether I made another dollar from it or not..I really do enjoy it..I do not like the business aspect of it that much as far as the filling of orders and dealing with habitual complainers. But that's part of it and it goes with the territory...I do not want to be known as someone who just introdused a pretty face or another mauve with a eye and matching edge...LOL..Not slamming them..Just think that the eye and edge thing has run amuck..I would love to see even bigger full forms up to 10" or so on statuesque plants in the 4-6 foot range..That would be a worthy path I feel..Instead of clogging up the 24-30 inch height range with more of the same..(we still hybridize full forms btw) I just got off the phone with Brian Mahieu earlier tonight telling him how excited I was to see such good plants in our intro's...Plants, not just a face...As I have filled hundreds of orders this spring it has become evident that both Brian and myself have taken the right path in selecting for the plant before the bloom. Details such as mature clumps that just fall apart instead of having to hack up woody type clusters of crowns..Things like beautiful cool mint green foliage that almost has a waxy look to it, and foliage of different colors of burgundy and purple and a few stable variegated ones as well...I loved digging a clump of Svenska today..The fans were spaced apart far enough to lay your fingers in between them on mature clumps..And then to discover this mint green foliage with burgundy pink edges on every leaf was a nice treat as well..I noticed a clump of a select seedling that was completely chartreuse in color..The only one in the field. Not sick or iron defficient, just a very healthy chartreuse...Can't wait to see it bloom..This is a few of the reasons I do this..To really try to get "plants" out there..I lopve trying to figure out why a cross isn't taking..I did probably 30-40 attempts with Scandinavian pollen on Brushed By Bluebirds with not one pod...on my last attempt I selfed BBB and it pulled the trigger and all 20 of my BBB pods with Scandinavia pollen took giving me 96 seeds..Things like that is why I do it...To try and get pods on plants that are pod infertile is a goal for me..I have had some luck doing everything from spraying different sprays to just pleading with the daylily Gods..LOL..Another thing Brain and me play around with is utilizing Tet. pollen via unreduced gametes..We have alot of luck with this and what better way to get Tet genes into your programs..I love good buds and branching..Someting I'm getting better at than when I started...I have some insanely branched and Budded seedlings with amazing increase and rhisomates growth like Kwanso that have come out of crosses like (Citrina X Linda)X (Galaxy Explosion X Hankow)X (Jungle Fowl X Thorhalla) X (Species X Species)..Once you get a line of breeding like that, you can then be assured of a total plant and then have an aweful lot of fun playing around with the blooms..I dont do it for recognition..I dont do it to conform to the standard..I dont go to shows, and don't have time to visit other gardens..I don't care about awards or ribbons..My fulfillment for this is rather simple and I am rewarded every morning I get to see the sunrise and watch all the Bluebirds we have, to watch our little pygmy goats and donkeys play..To have my faithful sidekick cat Mango come to me and love on me without judgement..and to be able to see that seedling bloom for the first time..And of course my family whom without my wife Laura, I would in no way be able to get it all done..My boys are a big help as well...I love all the people I have met..I love seeing peoples faces when they see a bloom that is speacial to there eye and then laugh when they leave with a yellow nose without telling them..I hope all of us who enjoy gardening and daylilies in particular can reflest like this from time to time and not forget why we do this...Antway, enough of my ramblings...Hope I didn't bore the heck out of ya..Later Taters...David.

"Wade (or anyone else that knows)- I am also new to DL, so I was hoping that you could explain why evergreens are weakening the gene pool/why they are weaker than dormants?" asks fairysoapgirl. Weaker than being the operative phase... what has been discovered is the daylilies of today share a goodly percentage of the same genes. As the Ev plant habit is mostly employed in hybridizing today, this effect is being intensified on the Ev side. When plants are only selected on face/bloom characters and plant habit is neglected.. resistance to disease isnt selected for.. the plant suffers. This is not due just to inbreeding... in the end its a selection problem in originas again the plant habit isnt often being considered. Then even while two plants used in a cross do not appear closely related by looking back a generation or two.... bringing the whole lineage up from 5-7 generations tells the complete story. In many cases the plants come from the same genes.. via different paths. To the credit of some southern growers using primarily Ev genes, a few are selecting against rust... doing no preventative spraying and choosing their mates from stock not affected with or showing little rust sign. And in all fairness not all southern growers neglect plant habit. Again ..selection is the key element. One can easily select quality plant habit from Evs.. as any other growth habit. Yes theres definitely some dogs out there from prominent programs. Rotters.. poor growers.. yet to single just one out here isnt fair. To share ones experiences with such plants is valuable.. so long as the complete set of circumstances via the event are in view. Plants easily are victim to poor culture... can encounter excess high heat via shipping.. and problems can arise not really the fault of the shipper or the plants genetics. Gather the facts first. The dormant habit is not free from weaker genes.. by any means. A few of the older varieties of the Reckamp strain show very poor growth vigor, frequent bud dropping and in general arent good garden plants. In recent years Roy Klehm has largely taken over that strain and dealt successfully with some of these minor issues. Some of his newer plants are excellent. I share NY Ritas enthusiasm for the cutting edge true northern hybridized daylily. The fact is most of the cutting edge feature from points south does not make the trip far north.. either in genetic transmission to hardier stock.. or show these characters when grown in our relative cold compared to their origin warmth. When someone objectively adds the net gain from each generation grown north.. or south for that matter... very few plants are worth the time as parents.

* Posted by lynxe z6B/PA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 12, 07 at 11:21 "Most people don't like Tall and Small, they want a plant that is tailored." Seriously, they have role in the garden IMO, holding up their part of the backs of borders. To my eyes, the small flowers on their tall scapes are charming and graceful. They are not dramatic, and you won't go running across a lawn yelling, "Wow! What's THAT blooming over there!" If you're a hybridizer looking to produce 10" spiders or something like that, they won't be your cup of tea. But they are pretty, and they can add a different look to a daylily collection. +++ Dear Lynxe, Great comments you made above! I meant to comment when you posted, but the last 2 days have been horridly hectic. I am one of those hybridizers breeding for the 10 inch spider/UFs, but I do love and appreciate the tall and small daylilies. Afterall, tall and small is how natural selection designed tall daylilies! H. altissima and H vespertina (a form of altissima) are the two tallest daylily species, and they have small (maybe 3 to 3.5 inch) "tailored"? blossoms on well branched scapes. They look perfectly natural and in balance to me. Although some people freak out if a small flower is on a tall scape, it looks natural to me, untold eons of natural selection can't be "wrong". :-) One very interesting thing about H. altissima's scapes and one reason why have not used it directly in my tall lines (though it is behind some of Stout's plants that I used, like 'Challenger')is this: if you follow the scape of H altissima down into the clump and pull it out (after it has dried in the fall) you will see that it narrows down to a flat segment like a piece of strapping tape. And, after the seedpods mature that scape will rotate on this natural hinge and the seeds will scatter 60 inches from the parent clump. This is a perfectly adapted reproductive strategy to scatter the seeds far from the parent clump. However, that hinged scape will give those of us fits who are trying to put huge flowers on it (not the 3 inch ones it was "designed" for). The base of an H. citrina scape has a triangular shape. This is a stable, upright form. Also, H citrina's flowers are quite a bit larger than H altissima. In my breeding program citrina has given larger flowers, and sturdier scapes than H altissima, and that is why I have used citrina so extensively. As I mentioned above, H altissima is behind some of the Stout cultivars I used as foundation stock: 'Challenger', 'Autumn Minaret', 'Statuesque'etc. Stout had already selected against the willowy and hinged scape traits, so they did not bother me. Can you explain the adjective "tailored" to me? I have always read that, and it never really made sense to me. Does it mean without a lot of extraneous ruffles etc.? Clean lines? For those of you who like the tall and small look, and like fragrant, nocturnals please look into H. citrina vespertina. This is a lovely, lovely plant blooms very similar to H altissima, but the height is maybe 30-36 inches, however it is amazingly branched and budded, the scapes are beautifully upright and delicate and have a very "twiggy" look. This plant is radically fertile (pollinate at dusk), fragrant and has given good seedlings. best to all, Brian

Brian, I will try to cover some of the possibilities. ON A SIMILIAR MATTER, DO I UNDERSTAND IT CORRECTLY, THAT A SPECIES CAN BE SELF INCOMPATIBLE OR TOTALLY THE OPPOSITE AND SELF SET SEED WITH RESULTING SEEDLINGS BEING IDENTICAL? Yes, and no. Compatibility within a species may be one of several different types, the most common involves what is called the S gene (often called the S locus). In diploids, individuals can only be heterozygous at the S gene and usually within the species there are many different forms of the S gene (the forms are called alleles). Perhaps as many as 25 alleles. Therefore individuals within the species might be S1/S2, others might be S3/S8, or S11/S12 or S2/S3 and so on. An example: an individual that was S1/S2 will not produce seed when pollinated with its own pollen (S1 or S2), it would produce abundant seed when pollinated by an individual that was S3/S4 (etc) and less abundantly if pollinated by an individual that was S2/S3 (since only the S3 pollen would work). Those would be the typical results. However, there could be individuals in the species that had lost, at least partially, the ability to distinguish pollen S-types and they might produce seeds from their own pollen. Also, some species that would be described as typically self-incompatible - may accept their own pollen when pollinated towards the end of their normal flowering season. For self-compatible species, selfing works and they produce seed. The seedlings characteristics depend completely on the genetic make-up (genotype) of the parent. The extent of visible differences between individuals in a species under natural circumstances varies. For example, some species have individuals with different flower colours eg the desert annual Linanthus parryae has some individuals with white flowers and some with blue flowers in the wild - many species have all individuals with the same flower colour. If one were to collect a blue-flowered individual Linanthus and self it one might find only blue offspring or one might find a mix of 3 blue to one white. If one were to collect a white-flowered individual from the wild and self-pollinate it one would only find white offspring. A species may be either self-incompatible or self-compatible. Either type of species may have individuals that are homozygous or heterozygous for particular characteristics, for example flower colour. A self-compatible species may have individuals that are fixed for red flower colour RR and when selfed produce only red offspring. A self-incompatible species may have individuals that are fixed for red flower colour RR (and although not able to be selfed usually) when selfing was successful (or when another RR individual was the other parent in a cross) would produce all red offspring. The genotype of the individuals does not depend on the self-compatibility (or lack of it) except for the single S-locus. If a particular hibiscus species or cultivar is available from multiple origins then the plants may differ in characteristics, including self-incompatibility. This is particularly possible when the plant is not a named/bred cultivar but is an introduction from plants directly collected from the 'wild'. When a plant is selfed and produces replicas of itself (in some manner) that indicates the plant is 'fixed' or homozygous for that characteristic. When a plant is selfed and it produces offspring showing a range of a particular characteristic then that indicates the parent plant was heterozygous for that character). Nasali Pink x Nasali Pink -> 50 pink : 50 cream is an unusual result. I will assume that Nasali Pink was selfed using normal pollinating precautions. The closest simple explanation would be that the ratio was close to 9:7 rather than 1:1. If it was 9:7 then the genetic description of the cross would be: Nasali Pink is AaBb, selfing AaBb x AaBb produces nine offspring that are A-B- where the - may be either, and seven offspring (three are aaB-, three are A-bb and one is aabb). An individual is cream if it has aa or bb or aabb. It is pink in all other cases. That would also mean that there are three kinds of cream. Crossing two creams (derived from Nasali Pink) together could give an enormous number of possible results. cream x cream from Nasali Pink ancestry might produce all cream offspring (aa x aa, or bb x bb or aabb x aabb) or it might produce all pink offspring (aaBB cream x AAbb cream -> AaBb pink. This is known in carnations and indicates that both the A and B gene are involved in the same pathway to create a particular pigment (or pigments). Many of the crosses of cream x cream would produce both pink and cream offspring in different ratios. Does a particular pollination (cross) cause the flower to wither and the pod to start to develop? Do most pods abort before maturing seeds? YES, CV X SCHIZOPETALUS I would interpret this to indicate that the schizopetalus pollen grew down the style and fertilized the ovule starting development of the seed but some incompatibility between the two parents (possibly chromosome mismatch) caused the seeds to abort. The schizopetalus pollen is compatible but the seed formed is not viable. Often due to triploidy of the embryo. If removed from the seed early enough and grown on tissue culture type media many such embryos prove to be viable (in other plant species) and grow into plants that flower. The fertility of such plants would be unguessable. Does a particular pollination (cross) cause the flower to wither but no pod starts to develop (just as if the flower was not pollinated at all)? YES, CV X ARNOTIANNUS AND CV x NASALI PINK. I would interpret this to mean that the arnotiannus and Nasali Pink pollen did not grow far enough down the style and did not fertilize the ovule. This suggests that those pollens are not compatible with CV. Does a particular pollination (cross) produce pods that develop to maturity but the seeds are soft (not mature) or empty or otherwise not normal? YES, BUT THIS HAPPENS AT TIMES WITH OTHER VARIETIES AS WELL. Does a particular pollination (cross) produce few pods with few seeds that appear mature but none of the seeds ever germinate? YES, BUT THIS HAPPENS AT TIMES WITH OTHER VARIETIES AS WELL In both these cases the pollen was compatible and managed to fertilize the ovules but the embryos were not viable. Possibly a chromosome mismatch (triploidy for example). Does a particular pollination (cross) produce offspring that are both pod and pollen sterile? YES, CV X SCHIZO LOOKS TO HAVE PRODUCED OFFSPRING THAT ARE NOT WILLING TO SET SEED USING INTER-RELATED POLLEN. ANOTHER CROSS USING ALBO LACINATUS POLLEN PRODUCED ALL OFFSPRING WITHOUT POLLEN SACS/NON-DEHISCING. ALSO, I HAVE YET TO SET SEED OR HAVE LUCK WITH POLLEN FROM THE SEEDLINGS OF NASALI PINK x SCHIZOPETALUS. The CV x Schizopetalus offspring might be 'triploids' and more or less both pod and pollen sterile. The same may be the case for the Nasali pink x Schizopetalus offspring if they also do not produce seedlings when used as pod parents. There is also the possibility of single genes affecting sterility for pod or pollen or both.