The problem is bigger specimens tend to come away from the grower's field with a smaller proportion of roots.

White oak is a nice one, great in autumn. Red oak is a bit of an elephant of a tree and often not bright in fall.

The web site of your state Extension Service may have recommendations for shade trees.

Starting with larger plants means they take longer to recover, establish, and get going. What would be suboptimal is buying a huge tree. Second, if you have an 'October Glory' you want something that compliments that in back during fall coloring. Sycamore will not do that, in addition to being somewhat messy and allergenic for some. I second the Extension Agency list, and maybe think about pin oak or something with fall color - ask the Agent for a recommendation.

Dan

I agree that ideally, oaks are best grown from an acorn, on-site if all other factors are equal. I would not let that prevent me from purchasing a reasonable size tree if that was what I wanted. Oaks can reestablish after transplant and can be grown in ways that a more fibrous root system is substituted for the traditional deep taproot. Talk with your local knowledgeable nurseryperson about what they can offer. An oak with a traditional root system may be slightly better able to survive drought or environmental extremes, but that doesn't mean a properly modified root system won't work very well in a landscape situation.

As for growth rates of small versus large size trees, the reason Bboy gave, "bigger specimens tend to come away from the grower's field with a smaller proportion of roots", is the main reason that smaller trees can catch up to, or even surpass, somewhat larger ones. Other factors include likelihood of improper transplanting and poorly formed root systems in pot grown trees and a better site-adapted root system of trees planted at the site from seed or as a small specimen. The amount of transplant shock and speed of root regrowth varies widely among different species and in different situations, but, in most cases, a small tree may never catch up to a significantly large tree. For example, a two gallon specimen of a certain type of tree might catch up to and surpass a five gallon tree, but if you substitute a large b&b tree for the five gallon tree in the example, the smaller tree might be less likely to be able to catch up to the larger tree.

I can't really say what type or size of tree would be best for your situation. It's going to at least partly depend on how much money you can justify putting into the tree as well as factors like personal taste, what the possibilities of you staying in the house long-term are, etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Example of Root Pruning Technology

I am fortunate enough to have a local nursery which stocks a reasonable selection of container grown as well as B&B oaks every spring. While the large 12foot+ B&B trees may go for $200+, the smaller 6 foot (2 gallon) ones generally run in the $50 range. I have successfully established 2 white oaks, 2 willow oaks,and 1 swamp white oak starting with the smaller 2gallon container grown trees. While I agree that red oak which occurs naturally on my property grows faster, both white oak and willow oak grow surprisingly fast when young. Personally, I'd reccommend willow oak over red oak for your application.......a very beautiful tree.

i planted 6 to 8 foot bare root oaks in april of 2000 .. pure yellow sand .... shingle, white, red, scarlet, and black

they are going on 18 to 30+ feet tall ...

a friend in mansfield OH [near columbus] .. who grows 500 acres of oaks.. suggests that they grow faster than maples .... mine doing 3 to 6 feet per year ... in the right conditions ... it might be worth a day trip if you are within a decent car drive to visit this guy ...

i have a bicolor.. or white .... that i got mail order as a 3 foot whip in 2000 that is near 25 feet ... your presumptions regarding such is in error ...

where are you??? south Kentucky .... you have to have a tree farm within 100 miles ....

what is your soil ...

will you be able to care for them properly ...

i dont know how heavily i would invest in trees.. with the possibility of your short term life on this property ...

i mail ordered a few oaks from guerneys .. perhaps you should try a $10 investment with a DORMANT tree shipped in late october .... see link below

there are plenty of GOOD mail order tree places ...

TIMING OF PLANTING is the ultimate key for mail order planting

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Hi:

We bought a couple of Mosser Lee brand test kits at Lowe's yesterday, one for moisture, one for pH. The pH kit tested the soil at the area I'd put the tree at around 6.8 or 6.9.

Let me try to post of shot of our backyard, probably seem from our deck, with the garage/storage building (left of the shot) excluded when I took the picture.

[IMG]http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l147/drrich2/Our%20New%20House/IMG_1927.jpg[/IMG]

If the shot appears, it's the sunny right rear corner where I want to plant the tree, about 10 feet in from the fence.

On the other side of the fence, several years back from where the tree would go, is a small creek (I don't think it has continuous water flow, but a sequence of puddles) that's cut a few feet deep into the ground, so I take it the ground water though here might be decent. Our yard slopes from the front of the front yard to the back of the backyard.

Richard.

P.S.: The Logan County Extension Office web site doesn't really have a recommended tree list I can find online; I may have to call them.

P.S.#2: About.com's Forestry section has an article with 10 trees they don't recommend; I'll include a hyperlink to it. They indicate it gets gigantic & needs wet, acidic soil. I'm open to consider it, if it seems like a great choice for our application.

P.S. #3: Dutchess, I'm not familiar with Willow Oak; any thoughts on what would make it a better choice than Northern Red Oak for what we're doing?

P.S.#4 (Miscellaneous Points): Dan, I pointed out some Sycamore trees & my wife wasn't too taken with them. And I have allergies. Brandon: I could go up to $200 if it's a tree around 12+ feet tall & apt to grow & do well. Ken, our main ongoing 'care' of the tree would be to water it occasionally. I don't do much pruning & such. This is in Russellville, KY. Thanks for the link.

P.S. #5: Let's say I picked an oak, went ahead & planted it in the latter half of July & watered once or twice weekly instead of putting it in over in October. How likely is this to actually harm the tree? Is a summer planting just higher maintenance, or if it does replace it but if it lives you get a jump on growth, or is it apt to stunt the tree? (In other words, I'd like to get a jump on growing the tree, if it's practical to do).

Thanks, everybody!

Here is a link that might be useful: 10 Trees not to plant (for many folks)

I'm trying one more time to make the photo show so you can see it without copying & pasting to a browser window.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l147/drrich2/Our%20New%20House/IMG_1927.jpg

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:401637}}

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You don't need to spend 200.00 a tree. A 7.5 gal will do just fine. I, personally, would wait until Sept to plant to avoid heat stress. Oaks are my choice, not willow oak. Many others to choose from. Go to the library and read Dirr, M.A. Manual of Woody Landscape Plants. Use that.

Dan

I think the point everyone here is trying to get across is that trees take time to grow and you aren't going to get an established tree in your 3 year time frame without spending a lot of money and the risks of loss increase with planting larger trees. You have a beautiful lot begging to be planted with trees, so I understand your wanting to just get going. Trees are an investment, in time, effort and money and you want to get the most from it. If your county doesn't have a decent extension office, check the state extension for a list of optimal trees in your area. Then look at photos of the recommended trees, visit local nurseries and find trees you love. Plan for size, fall color, growth habits, consider those things before buying anything. Then plant what you love at the right time, spring or fall, not now in the heat of summer. Spend these hot summer months planning. If you stay at your home you will enjoy watching the trees grow over the decades. If you move, you can visit and take pride in the what you left for others to enjoy.

I visited a couple of nurseries this morning (in the rain) before heading to the houses to work on some fence. Did get to see Northern Red Oak, Pin Oak, Sawtooth Oak and Willow Oak (the first 3 side-by-side, in pots, maybe 8 to 10 feet tall, the last a much larger, burlapped plant). The Northern Red Oak was around $35; the much larger Willow Oak would've run probably close to $300.

One of the nurseries had a copy of the book Dan mentioned; it indicated Northern Red Oak transplants well and if memory serves has a 'neglible' tap root, and Pin Oak transplants well and his a fibrous root system (again, if memory serves).

I understand that in 3 years the oak won't be huge or anything like that; I do hope that who ever's living there for many years to come, our family or another, enjoys the trees.

Sounds Fall is the time to aim for. Thanks again, everyone.

Richard.

Rich,
I'm close by, in Christian Co. Email me off list, if you want.
Northern Red will do just fine for you, and of those you listed(pin, n.red, willow, sawtooth), I'd certainly opt for the N.Red;
Pin oak is way overplanted in this area, encounters significant chlorosis problems if the soil pH is not right, and almost monoculture residential plantings of pin oak have created a situation where horned/gouty oak gall and bacterial leaf scorch are running rampant, killing off nice big 30-40 yr old pin oaks all over Hoptown - and other areas. They're also problematic in residential lots, as the lower limbs sweep down to poke you in the eye, so you have to keep pruning them higher and higher into that 'lollipop' shape to preserve your vision.

I'm a huge fan of bur oak - native to this area(as is N.Red), and has consistently been the fastest growing tree in my 15-yr old plantings. Great habit, beautiful spring/summer foliage, interesting corky bark even on young twigs, great winter silhouette - not much for fall color, but it's great the other 50 weeks out of the year.
I'm not a fan of willow oak - it just holds no appeal for me. Very little 'oak' character about it, but if you want tiny little acorns, and tiny little leaves that don't require much raking or care, it's for you.
I'll echo recommendations for planting a small specimen - they'll establish more rapidly, and most of my bur oaks grow 2+ft/yr. A couple I planted as 6-12" seedlings in 1995 are now nice, big handsome 20+ft trees. I transplant 'em bareroot on a regular basis, with no particular difficulty.

Check out the link below - it's good, but not altogether correct, as mine have been fairly rapid-growing, and begin producing their ornate-caped acorns at about 10 years of age.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bur Oak - 2001 Urban Forestry Tree of the Year 2001

Lucky:

Small world! My wife & I are renting in Hopkinsville right now; I work at Western State Hospital, and she's signed up for classes in Bowling Green, so Russellville's the half-way point for us, hence the new home location.

Thanks for the info. I might actually put an Oak near each back corner; maybe that way I could squeeze in both a Burr & a Northern Red. I also want to get a couple of weeping cherry trees in the back, so gotta figure out how all this is going to fit. We put in 2 Dynamite Crape Myrtles along a the fence near the rear.

I think I'll skip Pin Oak, considering what you've told me. I can see where low limbs would be annoyance; my wife mows on a zero-turn mower. Wouldn't want her getting swept off!!!

Richard.