kimmser/peter- Thanks for the interest and info. I recently had a soil test done (my first one) and everything was in the high range EXCEPT Potassium. However, for whatever reason, my soil test results did not include the amount of nitrogen. I notice on the soil report that nitrate nitrogen is listed but there is no info about it in the results column. I was thinking that NITRATE nitrogen would be something that applied to synthetic fertilizers moreso than organic... but I really don't know. So, I don't know how much nitrogen is already there. Do I need to find out? How do I find out (soil test is done by Clemson University). The only other unknowns are sulfer & percentage of organic matter because apparently they require separate tests. The PH is 5.9 with a buffer ph of 7.75 and Clemson does not recommend liming at this level (although it is borderline). This test was taken prior to putting in my garden (first one this plot) and I added black kow, blood meal(5lbs/100sqft), greensand 10 lbs/100sqft)and rock phosphate 10 lbs/100sqft)at levels designed to bring a medium or low reading up to high. So, I'm thinking that because my garden was so BAD this go round that all of these additional ammendments are still there. So, don't really think an additional soil test is necessary but I'm probably going to get one anyone more or less out of curiousity. Kimmser- I did the settling out test and mostly what I have is sand. Very little organic matter and clay. Thus the reason for trying hairy vetch. I'm also guessing that there is little bacterial activity because of the lack of organic matter (thus the reason for thinking most of the "blood meal" is still there. Drains well, smells fine, no earthworms. Yeah, it needs some work, I'm starting to understand why. Peter- Interesting on the addition of rye to suppress the weeds. I take it the hairy vetch is slow to cover, I thought it would do ok on it's own. Based on what I've said above, would you agree that a nitrogen source is probably not necesary. 4 years for a soil test seems reasonable to me. Sure would like to get to where I don't need them at all to understand how my soils doing. Another apparent misconception on my part is that I'm going to be able to plant my spring garden in the plot that I plant the hairy vetch in now (winter cover crop). I was thinking I'd till it in a few weeks before last frost and everything would be better for my spring/summer garden. What I'm hearing you say is I probably need to wait. Trying to come up with a plan that I can rotate out spring/summer & fall/winter cover crops with spring/summer and fall/winter gardens. Attempting to figure how many separate plots I need to take things in and out of rotation so that I can get the organic matter in while also cutting down on disease because I rotate. What's the worse case scenario if I don't include the cereal rye with the vetch? So the cereal rye actually kills weed/vegetable seeds? Certainly didn't know that. I thought it was just weed suppression because it grew fast and got ahead of all the weeds thus shading them out and or choking them or something. Is the weed seed killer nature specific to cereal rye or is it particular of all the ryes? What about mixing in some sort of clover vs the rye? My brains spinning already when it comes to scheduling. Thanks for reminding me about the innoculant. Keep forgetting about it. Sounds like it's pretty important. Is there any info out there about how an innoculant could potentially be bad for your soil? It's not introducing something to it that hasn't been there in the past? Thanks all!

Buckwheat and hairy vetch are tremendously good for clay soils. They'll both send roots down much deeper than you can till, which will die in the great circle of garden life, leaving both organic matter and most importantly for clay soil--air/water tunnels. Vetch, of course, is a legume and will fix nitrogen as well. It does seem a bit late in zone 5 for planting out hairy vetch. It's not the most winter hardy cover crop. I believe winter rye holds that trophy. If you get a freeze on young vetch, it'll die. I've never done dormant seeding, but that sounds like a better idea to me. I used to basically garden in a vetch field. I'd mow it super short and turn my planting rows, trample and mulch my paths. I didn't really plan it that way, I just hate to till.

Its not going to multiply them, or make them extend their range. Plus, they already know where your garden is so about the only problem is that they might eat most of it and kill it off. A bottom growing plant like winter rye might do better with the grazing pressure. We have nearly tame deer here, in the yard every day like clock work, Fawns sleep under the tree etc. but simple loose fencing keeps them away from the vegetables. I put in a couple of tomato plants at the edge of the yard and they have slowly nibbled them to stumps over the season, but left exposed plants closer to the house alone. This is a switch from previous years so I'll probably keep doing it.

Sorry but your pictures didn't post. But no, Hairy Vetch doesn't require any thinning. Just let it do its thing and till it in in the spring. We used HV alone for several years but the past 3 years have had even better results using a mixture of HV, turnips, and mixed legumes. Just something to consider for next year. ;) Dave